Well through the first 3 days of the season (including youth hunt) there have been 3526 turkeys reported......that's compared to last years 3701.......That's pretty dang close for statewide numbers
Can you back color county’s yellow that open March 25 and back color gray counties that open april 1?
I could probably outline them but I dont think the basic paint program I'm using allows me to make the shape boxes opaque......For right now though its basically all of the northwest counties showing no change....
Im close to the Marshall/ Morgan line and have more turkeys than we've had in the last 22 plus years. We have a hunting preserve close that spends alot on managing turkeys plus all my trapping. It has definitely made a difference but seems to of made a big jump in the last 3 years to the good.
The central part of the state had a lot of rain for opening weekend so that probably drove numbers down.
I'd say your probably right or at least that's some of it..........Rainfall map for last 72 hours......I guess that should have saved a lot of gobblers for another week for those areas
We have now caught up to and surpassed last year’s numbers for this same point in the season……We’re at 5,862 this season compared to 5,402 last season at this time. Here’s the breakdown now by county……
Are these percentages calculated by days into the season (youth weekend + 7) or the actual calendar date (last year would have been youth weekend + 17)?
Are these percentages calculated by days into the season (youth weekend + 7) or the actual calendar date (last year would have been youth weekend + 17)?
The number of days into the season.........We started the season last year on a Friday……..I counted that Friday, Sat, and Sun as opening weekend…..Then the following week I counted Mon-Thurs as opening week…..the following Fri, Sat, Sun as weekend two and so on and so forth……We started on Sat this year so I counted Sat, Sun, Mon as opening weekend and Tues-Fri as opening week……Basically though this is still youth season plus seven days.
So I think the general consensus is that the new season frameworks were designed to limit harvest. Honestly probably not a terrible idea, especially until we can get a good grasp on the actual decline.
I would be curious to see a graph or some kind of visual showing the harvest numbers by the week of the year. I would guess the harvest numbers for the first week of May are substantially less than the third and fourth week of March. We are essentially swapping 5 days on the front for 5 days on the back end. If the difference in those numbers is 3-4,000 birds, it looks like a really good restocking program without the added cost.
Don’t get me wrong, I want to kill ‘em with the best of them but what the state did has a lot of potential to be a success. Assuming harvest limitation was the goal of course.
Assuming harvest limitation was the goal of course.
Assuming harvest limitation will have an impact on the decline. It isn't cause and effect. Limiting the harvest was a goal but it wont change the population trajectory.
What I can’t seem to wrap my head around is the fact that we’ve been down this road before. The birds were damn near extinct with only a few pockets left when restocking started. I’m sure I could find out with a little research, but I wasn’t around to know what did and didn’t happen prior to the restoration and immediately after restocking. Seems like we would have possibly answered a lot of our own questions if we looked at the past.
Hmmm…. Sounds like a principle we could apply in other places but hey what do I know…..
After the second weekend, this season's total continued to gain slightly over last year's.......at 8,108 this season so far compared to 7,586 last year at the same time........I'll wait to make another map but many of the counties that started out way behind showed gains in catching back up.......Thought that was interesting and something to watch moving forward
After the second weekend, this season's total continued to gain slightly over last year's.......at 8,108 this season so far compared to 7,586 last year at the same time........I'll wait to make another map but many of the counties that started out way behind showed gains in catching back up.......Thought that was interesting and something to watch moving forward
Jackson county had about 65,000 acres off limits until April 1.
People better quit checking birds. It's a lose lose. Chuckie is a dominant gobbler theory believer. Check too many and he'll say we are killing too many need tighter restrictions. Check too few this year, and Chuckie will say we are still in a population decline and we need tighter restrictions. When Chuckie checks his turkey check tally, the number he should see on opening day of the season is 0, and on the last day of the season, the number he sees should still be showing as a 0. It's not like he's using any sound biological data to make any of these limit and season start date decisions. Why give him the any ammo whatsoever to support his viewpoints? As noted above, he'll just have something to twist whichever way he feels he wants to go.
Big increase in kills this week over the same week last year......now at 9,719 total compared to 8,301 at the same point last year. Here is the updated map by county
So if you compare the numbers from the first weekend to the most current map its pretty apparent to see that some counties started out in the hole due to the heavy rains that weekend…….Since then, a majority of all counties have added or gained 20-30% ish percent in a very similar large scale trend …….yet many of those counties that started in the hole are still behind what they likely would have been…….If the season ended today you could say that the delay saved birds……..However, there’s still several weeks to go and those coming days is what will determine if those birds are indeed saved or if they end up getting killed just the same. If you look at a county like Autauga or Coosa for example, it kinda leads you to believe that maybe its going to be the latter…….
Still at the end of the day Gobbler said it……..Either way that doesn’t mean that harvest is a limiting factor on population growth ....
The 49% in Bibb co increase is probably from people poaching at my place! Used to hear 6-7 birds on any given morning now I’m lucky to hear 1 on my place. Luckily I just made friends with a neighbor that is in law enforcement. Hopefully that’ll cut down on the bs.
So we should pass last year’s total tomorrow and are on pace to have the highest harvest in the last 4 years…….That really doesn’t tell the full story though if you dig into those numbers a little further. Over that 4 year period many of the counties in the southern 1/3 of the state have seen pretty significant increases in harvest rates while a large portion of the northeastern quadrant have been on a 4 year decline……..counties like Cherokee, Calhoun, Cleburne, Talladega, along with several others……Even ol mighty Jackson has dropped from killing 700+ birds down to 500.
Damn , Tallapoosa used to be loaded with them in the early 80s . I used to hunt the old Dadeville lumber company land I saw droves of turkey ever time I went deer hunting
Let’s ask a bunch of turkey hunters to volunteer information
Dont have to ask they literally post it all over the interwebs these days
I’d believe a fisherman before a turkey hunter. Especially a hardcore one. They’ll lie to your face, they’ll travel miles to take their pic somewhere else tha where the bird was killed. Gunterville duck hunters were just as bad. Taking pics in a freenimys hole. I used to carry spent hills and Turkey feathers for fun.
Damn , Tallapoosa used to be loaded with them in the early 80s . I used to hunt the old Dadeville lumber company land I saw droves of turkey ever time I went deer hunting
It was still in the 90s into the early 2000s but my buddy says it’s gotten bad over there to the point he doesn’t hunt it as much. He’s a straight up turkey killer bclc knows him and will vouch.
Damn , Tallapoosa used to be loaded with them in the early 80s . I used to hunt the old Dadeville lumber company land I saw droves of turkey ever time I went deer hunting
It was still in the 90s into the early 2000s but my buddy says it’s gotten bad over there to the point he doesn’t hunt it as much. He’s a straight up turkey killer bclc knows him and will vouch.
Shame , they were so thick you could stear them with a stick .
I never hunted them there had places close to home .
Damn , Tallapoosa used to be loaded with them in the early 80s . I used to hunt the old Dadeville lumber company land I saw droves of turkey ever time I went deer hunting
It was still in the 90s into the early 2000s but my buddy says it’s gotten bad over there to the point he doesn’t hunt it as much. He’s a straight up turkey killer bclc knows him and will vouch.
We had so many birds back in the 90’s and 2000’s that Ray Charles could kill a limit. 🤣
the 90s were the heyday before all the flat bill wearing facebook heroes came of age
Reckon who raised them hoodlums?
Good point that I raised with a biologist friend this weekend. There are 3 of us that have been turkey hunting since the mid 80's. We have all had kids and nephews, etc. We have trained directly 13 other turkey hunters now and we are still alive so what was 3 in the mid 80's is now 16 turkey hunters roaming the woods.... regularly.
the 90s were the heyday before all the flat bill wearing facebook heroes came of age
Reckon who raised them hoodlums?
Good point that I raised with a biologist friend this weekend. There are 3 of us that have been turkey hunting since the mid 80's. We have all had kids and nephews, etc. We have trained directly 13 other turkey hunters now and we are still alive so what was 3 in the mid 80's is now 16 turkey hunters roaming the woods.... regularly.
the 90s were the heyday before all the flat bill wearing facebook heroes came of age
Reckon who raised them hoodlums?
Good point that I raised with a biologist friend this weekend. There are 3 of us that have been turkey hunting since the mid 80's. We have all had kids and nephews, etc. We have trained directly 13 other turkey hunters now and we are still alive so what was 3 in the mid 80's is now 16 turkey hunters roaming the woods.... regularly.
That’s a fact. I know it’s not good for my personal killing but it’s hard not to show the ropes to the young bucks in your family who don’t mind walking a few miles and not complain. I had an uncle teach me a lot of what I know and now his boys are out knee booting like I used to do having a ball. Much better than them running the roads and getting in trouble though. The woods are a good place to be
They numbers may change by a few birds but for the most part the season is over.......Here's the final numbers. These are for the last 4 seasons starting in 2020..........
Here's another way of looking at those numbers.......The counties in yellow have shown a stable harvest over the last 4 years.........the counties in green have shown a steady 4 year increase.......and the counties in red have shown a 4 year decline.......give or take.....A few counties are kinda on the bubble between yellow and red.....Seems to be a pretty clear pattern though for areas of growth and decline
So we killed even more than the covid year that the dcnr assured us was an anomaly due to so many hunters in the woods. Just looking at the harvest numbers, the awful decline in turkey populations doesn't seem to be real.
Just think the first year decoys we’re allowed 72,000 we’re killed. Before 2006 we averaged around 45,000.
I agree.....it looks pretty obvious that decoys had an impact. Something to keep in mind when comparing the numbers taken by the old survey and the new numbers is that everyone isnt participating in game check......The old numbers took a sample and extrapolated it out and came up with a number that hypothetically has everyone participating.......The new game check numbers are probably 30% short of actual.....maybe more..........The trend data is likely still good though over the last 4 years.
So we killed even more than the covid year that the dcnr assured us was an anomaly due to so many hunters in the woods. Just looking at the harvest numbers, the awful decline in turkey populations doesn't seem to be real.
CNC, that's a good map that you put together!
I agree......at least over the last 4 years we seem to be running fairly stable across most of the state......I think if you go back in time though like ridgestalker pointed out.....we probably have had some time periods when we saw at least some minor decline across the board
Take into account - the most pre-season killing I can ever remember according to the bragging and chirping - continued lack of respect for the dcnr - no fear of an invisible enforcement staff - and nobody scared of the consequences anyway -
It would be absolutely impossible to extrapolate, calculate, or multiply by percentage - any accurate numbers of any kind. Just my take.
Take into account - the most pre-season killing I can ever remember according to the bragging and chirping - continued lack of respect for the dcnr - no fear of an invisible enforcement staff - and nobody scared of the consequences anyway -
It would be absolutely impossible to extrapolate, calculate, or multiply by percentage - any accurate numbers of any kind. Just my take.
And that's exactly what I predicted would happen when they announced mandatory GC. A random sample is way more accurate than a system that requires every turkey when it's going to be impossible to know about every turkey. It sure looks like the population is increasing based on the GC numbers, but it's entirely possible that the increase is mostly due to more hunters participating in GC. My perception is that the harvest probably is increasing, but it's just a guess and nobody knows. They took a system that worked and replaced it with one with no chance of working.
It is concerning to see those counties on the eastern side where the harvest is declining. I hunt some in one of those counties and that place has followed the trend down. But it's not any great mystery why; it's all about the habitat. We used to be surrounded by forests; now we are surrounded by 5 yr old cutover and 10 acre home lots. The turkey population goes down when that happens.
My club killed 3 on 4000 acres in Jackson County (Paint Rock Valley). This was my 7th year in the club, and it has never been this bad. I didn't hunt it much, but this is the 1st year I've never heard a turkey gobble or seen or turkey on that property. I know dead birds don't tell you how many live birds you have, but game check, no check, survey, whatever, our place has gone continually downhill since 2020.
My club killed 3 on 4000 acres in Jackson County (Paint Rock Valley). This was my 7th year in the club, and it has never been this bad. I didn't hunt it much, but this is the 1st year I've never heard a turkey gobble or seen or turkey on that property. I know dead birds don't tell you how many live birds you have, but game check, no check, survey, whatever, our place has gone continually downhill since 2020.
We don’t have a 1/3 of what we had on Skyline 20 years ago.
My club killed 3 on 4000 acres in Jackson County (Paint Rock Valley). This was my 7th year in the club, and it has never been this bad. I didn't hunt it much, but this is the 1st year I've never heard a turkey gobble or seen or turkey on that property. I know dead birds don't tell you how many live birds you have, but game check, no check, survey, whatever, our place has gone continually downhill since 2020.
We don’t have a 1/3 of what we had on Skyline 20 years ago.
I've only hunted Skyline once, but I would wager it gets hit the hardest with out of state hunters over any other WMA. There was a guy from Kansas that spent a week hunting Cahaba the opening week. Why he would choose Cahaba is beyond me. He must have gotten some bad intel or he just likes a challenge.
My club killed 3 on 4000 acres in Jackson County (Paint Rock Valley). This was my 7th year in the club, and it has never been this bad. I didn't hunt it much, but this is the 1st year I've never heard a turkey gobble or seen or turkey on that property. I know dead birds don't tell you how many live birds you have, but game check, no check, survey, whatever, our place has gone continually downhill since 2020.
We don’t have a 1/3 of what we had on Skyline 20 years ago.
I've only hunted Skyline once, but I would wager it gets hit the hardest with out of state hunters over any other WMA. There was a guy from Kansas that spent a week hunting Cahaba the opening week. Why he would choose Cahaba is beyond me. He must have gotten some bad intel or he just likes a challenge.
You can thank Dave owens and fellow YouTubers for that…
It is concerning to see those counties on the eastern side where the harvest is declining. I hunt some in one of those counties and that place has followed the trend down. But it's not any great mystery why; it's all about the habitat. We used to be surrounded by forests; now we are surrounded by 5 yr old cutover and 10 acre home lots. The turkey population goes down when that happens.
On the flip side of that…..I think if you look at the growth that is occurring across such a large area of south Alabama it would likely point to some kind of environmental condition as being the root cause……..either rainfall or temp……..I’m going with rainfall as being the culprit at play……I’ve been looking at rainfall maps trying to find a obvious pattern but its tough to say for sure……What it appears to me though is that we’ve had really wet March’s and April’s…….like so wet that it would have probably been difficult for anyone to burn during these time periods over the last 4 years or so……Maybe its something else about the rainfall pattern that's causing it, I’m just sayin.
Honest question.... Am I the only one who believes hunters are the greatest reason turkeys are in decline? Why are we so afraid to consider we are the problem? If you want to instantly tick people off, suggest that we're simply overkilling in relation to poult survival.
I do not believe it's predators or nest raiders, nor habitat loss or change, nor disease or climate. It's us. The ONLY thing I see different over my 49 years of life is the exponential increase in turkey hunters. Here's my hypothesis.... Simple thesis statement: I hunted much of the late 80's and all of the 90's, and nothing ever changed. There were only a handful of guys who turkey hunted in all of the woods I ranged on, and I knew basically all of them. I don't remember having anxiety about getting beat to a spot on public land back then, and there were always multiple turkeys gobbling anywhere you went. I see no more predators today than I did then, and the habitat is identical, the weather is identical. There's only ONE thing that's different.....
About the time we say turkey numbers (and hunter satisfaction) started a decline, in my assessment, it coincided with the explosion of the commercialization and marketization of the hunting industry. TV, social media, and just a modern-progressive marketing of all things hunting and fishing. Eventually, everyone I know turkey hunts. There's a truck parked at every gate, pulled over anywhere they can. Out of state tags camping at our WMAs for weeks, pounding our turkeys all week while we're at work. All these boys saving their vacation for turkey season. My social media shows numerous dead turkeys every single day. We are killing the everloving @#$% out of them.
Stay with me.... Turkeys are a dominance hierarchy animal, not all of them breed. You've got a few dominant birds in an area, doing most of the gobbling and breeding. If you kill him today, how long does it take the subordinates to recognize this, then establish a new pecking order and begin breeding again? Or do they at all that particular season? It's far-fetched, but it's plausible, that we're killing those dominant birds in quick fashion all over the place (because they're getting pounded every day by burgeoning numbers of hunters), and the overall flock breeding is affected. Perhaps it's only a fractional affect, but over 20-25 years?.... So we're killing them in larger numbers than ever, coupled with less/no breeding by subordinate birds, and here we stand today with a mess on our hands.
The area with the biggest decline, coincides with the public lands that got the most air time from youtubers......
It also harbors national forest, that is primarily mature timber, with very little diversity.
Yep……whatever the culprit is it seems there’s a high likelihood that it revolves around Talladega National Forest as a main player. It would be interesting to compare notes from Talladega versus Conecuh…..
Here’s a comparison of this season versus 2020…..which is the first season in our 4 year span…….You can see that there have been some massive increases in some counties in the southern portion of the state……Tallapoosa, Talladega, Clay being the biggest losers......Lamar, Fayette, and Jackson could probably be called on the bubble of "decline" depending on where things go from here
Honest question.... Am I the only one who believes hunters are the greatest reason turkeys are in decline? Why are we so afraid to consider we are the problem? If you want to instantly tick people off, suggest that we're simply overkilling in relation to poult survival.
I do not believe it's predators or nest raiders, nor habitat loss or change, nor disease or climate. It's us. The ONLY thing I see different over my 49 years of life is the exponential increase in turkey hunters. Here's my hypothesis.... Simple thesis statement: I hunted much of the late 80's and all of the 90's, and nothing ever changed. There were only a handful of guys who turkey hunted in all of the woods I ranged on, and I knew basically all of them. I don't remember having anxiety about getting beat to a spot on public land back then, and there were always multiple turkeys gobbling anywhere you went. I see no more predators today than I did then, and the habitat is identical, the weather is identical. There's only ONE thing that's different.....
About the time we say turkey numbers (and hunter satisfaction) started a decline, in my assessment, it coincided with the explosion of the commercialization and marketization of the hunting industry. TV, social media, and just a modern-progressive marketing of all things hunting and fishing. Eventually, everyone I know turkey hunts. There's a truck parked at every gate, pulled over anywhere they can. Out of state tags camping at our WMAs for weeks, pounding our turkeys all week while we're at work. All these boys saving their vacation for turkey season. My social media shows numerous dead turkeys every single day. We are killing the everloving @#$% out of them.
Stay with me.... Turkeys are a dominance hierarchy animal, not all of them breed. You've got a few dominant birds in an area, doing most of the gobbling and breeding. If you kill him today, how long does it take the subordinates to recognize this, then establish a new pecking order and begin breeding again? Or do they at all that particular season? It's far-fetched, but it's plausible, that we're killing those dominant birds in quick fashion all over the place (because they're getting pounded every day by burgeoning numbers of hunters), and the overall flock breeding is affected. Perhaps it's only a fractional affect, but over 20-25 years?.... So we're killing them in larger numbers than ever, coupled with less/no breeding by subordinate birds, and here we stand today with a mess on our hands.
Just my thoughts.
approximatley 33.5 million acres in alabama and 1.5 million are public lands or 4.4% I dont think public land pressure is the problem
I don’t have any data to support my guesstimate, but I’d guess predators are carrying a 10:1, maybe 20:1 kill ratio over a turkey hunter. So……..
The coon population is out of control. Highest I’ve ever seen it. The amount of tracks on roads and creek crossings is crazy. I caught seven coons at one trap location early April.
Also - avian predators are on the rise in AL.
There’s a chance we have the highest coon population and avian predator combination we’ve ever seen in the south.
I understand Ikillbux Hunters are the only turkey predator not considered around here
I was thinking about this thread today
For the past several years I’ve felt we’ve been heading towards a European based hunting scenario
Private lands with lots of resources have the ability to finance game to the point of whatever it takes Preserves or high fences provide the experience whether real or imagined but enough folks willing to pay.
There’s been a lot technology changes too. From live scope for crappie to cell cams sending pics of a strutter in a field or big buck around the shooting house. Hunters head to the woods knowing what is there. They no longer have to actually be there to find out. Technology informs them.
Bust out how many killed per acre that might help tell a tell.
I don’t have any data to support my guesstimate, but I’d guess predators are carrying a 10:1, maybe 20:1 kill ratio over a turkey hunter. So……..
The coon population is out of control. Highest I’ve ever seen it. The amount of tracks on roads and creek crossings is crazy. I caught seven coons at one trap location early April.
Also - avian predators are on the rise in AL.
There’s a chance we have the highest coon population and avian predator combination we’ve ever seen in the south.
I agree especially about the flying cats, coons around here seem about the same
Turkey hunters in the other hand, they’ve definitely increased
I don’t have any data to support my guesstimate, but I’d guess predators are carrying a 10:1, maybe 20:1 kill ratio over a turkey hunter. So……..
The coon population is out of control. Highest I’ve ever seen it. The amount of tracks on roads and creek crossings is crazy. I caught seven coons at one trap location early April.
Also - avian predators are on the rise in AL.
There’s a chance we have the highest coon population and avian predator combination we’ve ever seen in the south.
I agree especially about the flying cats, coons around here seem about the same
Turkey hunters in the other hand, they’ve definitely increased
Hunting pressure has not significantly increased in every area of AL in the past 30 years. Some areas - yes - I understand that.
But consider this - there’s a point where all factors of turkey hunting come together- with small parcels of land with fragmentation and rural human populations - that the limit one hunter can kill - doesn’t matter if it’s 1 bird, or 1 million. A turkey limit changes nothing.
We had turkeys all around here in 80s and it was always said they were hard to hunt so many didn’t play it was fishing season. Just like most didn’t hunt the rut in January. It was the norm around here. I started chasing turkeys in the early 90s and have killed limits pretty much every year until the last several. I retired for lack of a better words a few year back. Declining population was one reason. The other was the shear number of hunter encounters I had and not always good ones. The competition factor kicked in and I didn’t care to participate.
Both the shear number of hunters and the actual number of hours afield have increased significantly around here. So it’s more than a double whammy.
Hunters afield not only educate the gobblers but disturb the nesting hens too. So does that exacerbate the problems? Probably lowers gobbler killed
I get that ALL locations do not suffer from this. I can only speak of my experiences
Private properties may or may not have these experiences. I hunted both private and public I know guys that own large amounts of continuous land and they are experiencing the same thing. One land owner quit letting anyone hunt their land, themselves included.
The map I posted is where I hunted mostly but I used to kill birds on a few WMAs. Especially the ones opening on March 20 and then March 15. Sam R Murphy became overwhelmed with hunters so I quit going. We opened April 1.
I’ve noticed birds using habitat that was once not considered suitable for turkeys. Killed many in the thick stuff.
I could go on and on. I’m trying to be a realist about my experiences. I started on properties that held unreal numbers. The main property I hunted was 400 acres it so unreal, was nothing to hear 25 birds a morning in the draws and up and down the creek. There were mornings I heard more I bet. Also can tell you others will tell the same thing. We often talk about it. I figure those days are gone for us.
Duck hunting has had the same problems
Hunters have not only increased but hunting tactics have, which also include hours per day in the field. Travelers have also increased and so have hours afield with them in particular
I get the push back from folks with good steady numbers and work done on properties.
It is what it is
I’m that guy that pushed for a 3 bird limit back when I was killing 5 birds a year.
I guess the real question is sustainability of turkey numbers versus turkey hunter numbers. There’s a balance but what is it?
It’s interesting that most of the southern states are experiencing the same problems.
Hunting pressure has not significantly increased in every area of AL in the past 30 years. Some areas - yes - I understand that.
But consider this - there’s a point where all factors of turkey hunting come together- with small parcels of land with fragmentation and rural human populations - that the limit one hunter can kill - doesn’t matter if it’s 1 bird, or 1 million. A turkey limit changes nothing.
I understand you scenario and happened with deer hunters and doe killing like hogwild pointed out.
Wildlife managers have a tough task of balancing hunter sentiment and wildlife numbers. I enjoyed watching the Express Boat series on duck hunting. Larry made some very astute conversations.
I will say historic areas with good turkey numbers seem to be falling and areas that never had turkeys are now experiencing good hunt-able numbers.
So from an overall viewpoint what’s the difference overall.
>>> I started on properties that held unreal numbers. The main property I hunted was 400 acres it so unreal, was nothing to hear 25 birds a morning in the draws and up and down the creek. There were mornings I heard more I bet. Also can tell you others will tell the same thing. We often talk about it. I figure those days are gone for us.<<<
I'm always astounded to read posts like this, and I've seen a good number of them over the years from different posters, so I am not doubting the truth of it. But I have been hunting turkeys a long time and have killed well over 200, and I have never heard anything like 25 Easterns in one morning. I don't think I've ever heard double digits in AL. I remember a morning in 1970 when I probably heard 10, but a lot of those were jakes. Years ago on the Coosa WMA I could get on a mountain on a still morning and hear 6 or 7, but I was able to hear over several sections of land and most of them were far away.
I don't think what you experienced was in any way sustainable. There were no laws or regulations that could have kept that going. I think it was just the normal thing that happens when turkeys are first reintroduced. The predators don't know what to do with them and the turkey population takes off, only to drop off as the predators adapt. I think this happens most everywhere, but I never experienced anything like you did.
It has always been normal and always will be that most of the eggs don't get to hatch. And most of those that do hatch are quickly eaten by something. If your land has limited cover, they will eat nearly all of them. If you are hunting public land that is basically unmanaged, the predators are going to keep the population down.
One thing I think the dcnr is doing right is moving towards different seasons and regulations for that 4% of the public land.
Honestly it was unreal and I believe your words are true to unsustainable
The thing is if you look at the map I posted. The land I hunted was up and down that creek. The 400 acres is right where the icon is. Out farm is the last of the fields along the creek at the bottom of the map.
I always assumed the turkeys migrated to the area along the creek. I’d assumed the nesting and brood tearing as more desirable there. They’re spend a lot of their time in the hills to the east during winter.
There has been a lot changes with timber and fields so that is a factor. I hunted the TVA property along that creek first. Used to put in and float down before the season. I’d literally count around 300 birds in 4 miles along that creek to where we parked it for the season. Had a biologist in the canoe with me.
This year I finally saw a flock almost as big as I used to see at our farm. 72 birds in it at end of deer season. Used to see 100-150 in those fields when someone else owned it.
My club killed 3 on 4000 acres in Jackson County (Paint Rock Valley). This was my 7th year in the club, and it has never been this bad. I didn't hunt it much, but this is the 1st year I've never heard a turkey gobble or seen or turkey on that property. I know dead birds don't tell you how many live birds you have, but game check, no check, survey, whatever, our place has gone continually downhill since 2020.
We don’t have a 1/3 of what we had on Skyline 20 years ago.
I ran into a couple of older gentleman this year on skyline and they were claiming the area we were in had a lot more birds until the state trapped them for restocking efforts. I’d love to know if that’s true.
My club killed 3 on 4000 acres in Jackson County (Paint Rock Valley). This was my 7th year in the club, and it has never been this bad. I didn't hunt it much, but this is the 1st year I've never heard a turkey gobble or seen or turkey on that property. I know dead birds don't tell you how many live birds you have, but game check, no check, survey, whatever, our place has gone continually downhill since 2020.
We don’t have a 1/3 of what we had on Skyline 20 years ago.
I ran into a couple of older gentleman this year on skyline and they were claiming the area we were in had a lot more birds until the state trapped them for restocking efforts. I’d love to know if that’s true.
They didn’t trap them to relocate. They trapped them and put transmitters and tags on them to monitor nesting and how long the gobblers survived. Auburn did the 4 year study. I turned a couple of transmitters in during that time.
Carter, if you saw a flock of 72 this past season that sounds like you have a great population. And after all these years maybe that is sustainable. I saw that many in a flock in Perry county back in the 60s. It was right after the turkey population took off after restocking, and they were in a big pasture near the Cahaba river. I've not seen that since, and we've never had a flock like that on our place.
The largest winter flock seen on our land was just a couple of years ago, and it was maybe 50 birds. My neighbors have really whacked the timber around us since then, so I would expect our population to start trending down. The habitat won't be the same, and no turkey lives his life only on our land.
I really don't know how you could complain about a lack of birds when you are seeing a flock of 70+. The biggest flock I've ever seen around here is probably 40, and I've always felt like I've had plenty of birds to hunt.
Carter, if you saw a flock of 72 this past season that sounds like you have a great population. And after all these years maybe that is sustainable. I saw that many in a flock in Perry county back in the 60s. It was right after the turkey population took off after restocking, and they were in a big pasture near the Cahaba river. I've not seen that since, and we've never had a flock like that on our place.
The largest winter flock seen on our land was just a couple of years ago, and it was maybe 50 birds. My neighbors have really whacked the timber around us since then, so I would expect our population to start trending down. The habitat won't be the same, and no turkey lives his life only on our land.
Originally Posted by crenshawco
I really don't know how you could complain about a lack of birds when you are seeing a flock of 70+. The biggest flock I've ever seen around here is probably 40, and I've always felt like I've had plenty of birds to hunt.
This is the first time in years to see a winter flock of this size. Past two years have been good hatches
The entire area of the map I shared is still down. Nothing that big or half that size seen elsewhere. Like I mentioned we’d see 300 birds in a 4 mile stretch back in the late 90s right before season I’ve always felt they migrated towards that bottom.
There’s hope, yea. We still are down overall compared to. It has been mentioned we were expiring a boom during those early years I started.
Other areas are still down at down.
In decent habitat what would be considered good kill rate per acreage. 1 gobbler in every 1500 acres decent or terrible?
My club killed 3 on 4000 acres in Jackson County (Paint Rock Valley). This was my 7th year in the club, and it has never been this bad. I didn't hunt it much, but this is the 1st year I've never heard a turkey gobble or seen or turkey on that property. I know dead birds don't tell you how many live birds you have, but game check, no check, survey, whatever, our place has gone continually downhill since 2020.
We don’t have a 1/3 of what we had on Skyline 20 years ago.
I ran into a couple of older gentleman this year on skyline and they were claiming the area we were in had a lot more birds until the state trapped them for restocking efforts. I’d love to know if that’s true.
They didn’t trap them to relocate. They trapped them and put transmitters and tags on them to monitor nesting and how long the gobblers survived. Auburn did the 4 year study. I turned a couple of transmitters in during that time.
There was a post in FB about a gobbler that was captured and banded in Georgia and killed in Alabama that had traveled 55 miles or so
We're all having the wrong conversation at the end of the day.......These concepts are not that complicated and if the State wanted to increase the "supply" of both deer and turkey they could easily do so. There's really not the big Scooby Doo mystery to be solved
Trapping completely left the equation here, it was a profit back in the day and the bottom fell out. Also, I know many of farmers and hunters that took care of the hawks and anything that was considered not welcome. Nature will do its thing I don't care what anyone says but I sometimes like to help it along. 1 thing I have noticed is coyotes and coons are in every holler and on each ridge. I have hunted and seen a lot of turkeys in areas where I'd not hear a gobble or a turkey sound of any kind. I don't blame 1 or several to not gobble, they get ate. I feel they have adapted to survival by being quite.
How bad were crop losses for farmers back in the 80's and early 90's due to deer and turkey????.....Did that reach a peak during this time period??
We used to see groups of 75-100+ turkey in Paint Rock Valley back then??
Some around here went out due to prices and droughts.
Let me restate this. There is NOT single hunter that hunter back then, in the areas of the map, that will say we’re doing good now. All will tell you what I’m saying. This is farmers that worked those fields, land owners and hunters. All talk about how bad it’s gotten. Even the ones that started in 05 -10 time frame say the same.
The last two years have shown a possible turnaround.
I don’t think y’all could understand the shear number of bird skilled back then. That’s WHY is say hunters are the number one predators. On Jerry’s place 400 acres, I know is a few years over 20 long beard killer there with many still gobbling. The great kille doer year in the 20 I hunted it was 10-12
Birds in that area also gobbled I mean gobbled. No matter the weather they gobbled. All morning long. That quit later on and became like most other places.
Hunters dont kill hens or jakes.........If you wanted to increase the number of adult male birds on the landscape the first thing to do would be outlaw decoys or limit their use to only youth season....Its blatantly obvious that it had an impact. The problem there though is that all the states are looking at each other for the "solution" and when one does something to "fix" the issue then others will want to follow suite and someone will be selling a whole lot less decoys.
Lots of factors have all come together at same time to decrease the numbers in my opinion. I hunted two areas in Alabama this year 30 miles apart. One area has an increasing population, the other decreasing. The birds for the most part gobbled good on the increasing area and horrible on the decreasing (turkeys were killed on the decreasing tho as still has a somewhat huntable population). Corn has increased the predator population, especially coons, and before ya'll say it, the use of corn was not as prevalent, before baiting was allowed, as it is now. TSS has certainly killed field birds that would not have died. Decoys have let people that otherwise had little chance at killing a turkey kill them on a regular basis. Increase in hunters? , possibly. Loss of agriculture, for sure has hurt. Loss of habitat, yes, 110%. Hogs, yes. The odd thing to me on my areas I can hunt is the place with the decreasing population has much better habitat.
Probably already discussed but I'm too lazy to read 11 pages.....
Whatever happened in the 80's is over. That's got nothing to do with today. That is completely irrelevant at this point that's been 30 years ago.
I know 2 people who got their first Turkeys this year and are both super pumped about Turkey hunting in general. They are now Turkey Hunters. Nothing wrong with that - I enjoy it myself.
They both shot them from a Ground Blind using a Decoy in a food plot.
So basically they bushwhacked them. That's my opinion.
Back in the day most of us Turkey Hunters never considered this. IT was considered un-sportsmanlike to ambush one from a shooting house window. That was rare and if you did that you didn't admit this among your hunting collogues.
Hunters are the predator. This is absolutely no different than Deer Hunting. Hunters dictate everything. Just like those doe blasters on the property next to you ensuring you NEVER have the chance at a good racked buck.
If you had Turkeys and now you don't. They are dead. That's the answer. What the limit is doesn't matter. If you shoot your birds then you will have less birds. It's up to you to determine how many you can actually kill before your population suffers or maybe goes away entirely. That's your decision. If you want more birds then do something about it. Stop shooting them. Start working on habitat.
VERY SIMPLE.
All this being said IMO their populations would and have always fluctuated on any given property. Back in the day when the population was down from 50 in a flock to 20 in a flock my grandfather would simply chock that up to a "wet spring". There is nothing scientific about that statement IMO. I think it just happens that way.
There is public hunting land in Coffee, Dale, Geneva, and Covington counties...look at the explosion of kills...hmm.
I bet that does account for some of the increase in those counties but there was a large 1 year increase this season across nearly all the southern counties.......If you remember we had two of the wettest years on record I believe it was 2 and 3 years ago....or maybe it was 3 and 4....I forget........but those two record rain years should have been the hatching years for what just got killed this year.
The record rainfall may have impacted the rodent populations and the prey abundance.....or it may have impacted people's ability to burn during nesting season.......or both
I know 2 people who got their first Turkeys this year and are both super pumped about Turkey hunting in general. They are now Turkey Hunters. Nothing wrong with that - I enjoy it myself.
They both shot them from a Ground Blind using a Decoy in a food plot.
So basically they bushwhacked them. That's my opinion.
Back in the day most of us Turkey Hunters never considered this. .
I would agree 100%. There is nothing ethically wrong with how they hunted, a lot of people hunt them that way. But I don't hunt that way and I don't think a lot of the purist (if you want to call it that) turkey hunters do either. It great to kill one, but it was never about the kill. It's about the chess match thats played on his ground and by his rules. It's strategy, patience, and a little luck every now and then. If I was limited to shooting them in. food plot over decoys out of a ground blind I'd quit. There's no fun in that to me. If I had to kill one for a million dollars then I'd hunt that way. If you sit long enough something will eventually come by.
Cell cameras, while very useful have definitely killed a ton of turkeys. I personally know several that couch hunt. Sit at the camp having a Bud Light (pun intended) and their text goes off. Gobbler in field 3. Jump in the Polaris and haul ass. Sneak up on the field an boom.
I know 2 people who got their first Turkeys this year and are both super pumped about Turkey hunting in general. They are now Turkey Hunters. Nothing wrong with that - I enjoy it myself.
They both shot them from a Ground Blind using a Decoy in a food plot.
So basically they bushwhacked them. That's my opinion.
Back in the day most of us Turkey Hunters never considered this. .
I would agree 100%. There is nothing ethically wrong with how they hunted, a lot of people hunt them that way. But I don't hunt that way and I don't think a lot of the purist (if you want to call it that) turkey hunters do either. It great to kill one, but it was never about the kill. It's about the chess match thats played on his ground and by his rules. It's strategy, patience, and a little luck every now and then. If I was limited to shooting them in. food plot over decoys out of a ground blind I'd quit. There's no fun in that to me. If I had to kill one for a million dollars then I'd hunt that way. If you sit long enough something will eventually come by.
Cell cameras, while very useful have definitely killed a ton of turkeys. I personally know several that couch hunt. Sit at the camp having a Bud Light (pun intended) and their text goes off. Gobbler in field 3. Jump in the Polaris and haul ass. Sneak up on the field an boom.
Carter, if you saw a flock of 72 this past season that sounds like you have a great population. And after all these years maybe that is sustainable. I saw that many in a flock in Perry county back in the 60s. It was right after the turkey population took off after restocking, and they were in a big pasture near the Cahaba river. I've not seen that since, and we've never had a flock like that on our place.
The largest winter flock seen on our land was just a couple of years ago, and it was maybe 50 birds. My neighbors have really whacked the timber around us since then, so I would expect our population to start trending down. The habitat won't be the same, and no turkey lives his life only on our land.
Originally Posted by crenshawco
I really don't know how you could complain about a lack of birds when you are seeing a flock of 70+. The biggest flock I've ever seen around here is probably 40, and I've always felt like I've had plenty of birds to hunt.
This is the first time in years to see a winter flock of this size. Past two years have been good hatches
The entire area of the map I shared is still down. Nothing that big or half that size seen elsewhere. Like I mentioned we’d see 300 birds in a 4 mile stretch back in the late 90s right before season I’ve always felt they migrated towards that bottom.
There’s hope, yea. We still are down overall compared to. It has been mentioned we were expiring a boom during those early years I started.
Other areas are still down at down.
In decent habitat what would be considered good kill rate per acreage. 1 gobbler in every 1500 acres decent or terrible?
I don't know the rate to be considered good, but one per 1500 acres sounds kinda light to me. Season before last we killed them on one property at a rate of 225 per 1500 acres. That maybe was too much as it dropped off this year to a rate of only 75 per 1500 acres.
Those are accurate numbers, but I will admit that I have read the book, "How to Lie with Statistics."
On a more realistic note, we have averaged around 4 longbeards per season on a 400 acre tract in Perry county. We've killed as many as 6 several times, and have also put up some zeros.
Carter, if you saw a flock of 72 this past season that sounds like you have a great population. And after all these years maybe that is sustainable. I saw that many in a flock in Perry county back in the 60s. It was right after the turkey population took off after restocking, and they were in a big pasture near the Cahaba river. I've not seen that since, and we've never had a flock like that on our place.
The largest winter flock seen on our land was just a couple of years ago, and it was maybe 50 birds. My neighbors have really whacked the timber around us since then, so I would expect our population to start trending down. The habitat won't be the same, and no turkey lives his life only on our land.
Originally Posted by crenshawco
I really don't know how you could complain about a lack of birds when you are seeing a flock of 70+. The biggest flock I've ever seen around here is probably 40, and I've always felt like I've had plenty of birds to hunt.
This is the first time in years to see a winter flock of this size. Past two years have been good hatches
The entire area of the map I shared is still down. Nothing that big or half that size seen elsewhere. Like I mentioned we’d see 300 birds in a 4 mile stretch back in the late 90s right before season I’ve always felt they migrated towards that bottom.
There’s hope, yea. We still are down overall compared to. It has been mentioned we were expiring a boom during those early years I started.
Other areas are still down at down.
In decent habitat what would be considered good kill rate per acreage. 1 gobbler in every 1500 acres decent or terrible?
I don't know the rate to be considered good, but one per 1500 acres sounds kinda light to me. Season before last we killed them on one property at a rate of 225 per 1500 acres. That maybe was too much as it dropped off this year to a rate of only 75 per 1500 acres.
Those are accurate numbers, but I will admit that I have read the book, "How to Lie with Statistics."
On a more realistic note, we have averaged around 4 longbeards per season on a 400 acre tract in Perry county. We've killed as many as 6 several times, and have also put up some zeros.
Carter, if you're hunting ag land, it's really not a fair comparable to us LA hunters. I'm hunting very little ag land with the exception of a couple of hay fields and cow pastures. I'd say 1 bird to 100 acres is a realistic expectation with decent habitat. When you're talking about 100+ acre ag field, that kills the bird per acre average quick
Nope the 1 in 1500 acres is not ag land. Not even close but there are food plots and so forth on that property.
The average is much better on that ag land/creek bottom on that map. Nothing like it was but way better than 1 in 1500. Way better.
There’s no way I’m trying to draw a comparison to where anyone else hunts because I have no idea about y’all’s places. That why earlier I mentioned my experiences on lands I know since early 90s.
Lying with stats is easily done. It’s like here in Colbert. CNCs numbers show an increase. Sounds good at first. Then you start asking questions. More birds are being killed in the middle to the eastern side now and less in the western areas. 10-20 years ago there were extremely few birds in the eastern side if any. One farmer has some birds and won’t let anyone get near them. He’s been in that area all his life and just recently saw turkeys around there. Other surrounding landowners are killing some in that area.
Nope the 1 in 1500 acres is not ag land. Not even close but there are food plots and so forth on that property.
The average is much better on that ag land/creek bottom on that map. Nothing like it was but way better than 1 in 1500. Way better.
There’s no way I’m trying to draw a comparison to where anyone else hunts because I have no idea about y’all’s places. That why earlier I mentioned my experiences on lands I know since early 90s.
So how are you seeing winter flocks of 70+ birds and I've only ever seen a winter flock of maybe 40 one time. Average winter flock is more like 20. You've got birds in your area, but it sounds like they've found more desirable spring habitat
Like Larry said in then press boat series about ducks and hunters
In Louisiana the overall harvest numbers have remained pretty steady. What has changed is the average per hunter has dropped significantly indicating more hunters Hunter sentiment was down Hunters when asked actually wanted to increase the limits even if it was detrimental to the duck populations
That kinda covers both sides of this discussion I find it intriguing
The only thing that matters is what to do now - to increase numbers. I just don’t believe a strong argument can be made that limits and season delays do much good.
If you can kill 5 the first 10 days of season - reducing the limit has no effect - numbers are fine. If there’s only one that can be killed on your hunting land - what does it matter if the limit is 1 or 100? It doesn’t matter.
My club killed 3 on 4000 acres in Jackson County (Paint Rock Valley). This was my 7th year in the club, and it has never been this bad. I didn't hunt it much, but this is the 1st year I've never heard a turkey gobble or seen or turkey on that property. I know dead birds don't tell you how many live birds you have, but game check, no check, survey, whatever, our place has gone continually downhill since 2020.
We don’t have a 1/3 of what we had on Skyline 20 years ago.
I ran into a couple of older gentleman this year on skyline and they were claiming the area we were in had a lot more birds until the state trapped them for restocking efforts. I’d love to know if that’s true.
They didn’t trap them to relocate. They trapped them and put transmitters and tags on them to monitor nesting and how long the gobblers survived. Auburn did the 4 year study. I turned a couple of transmitters in during that time.
These type responses are frustrating. This is 6 pages of replies about "X number of birds" and "X number of gobbles", etc. None of that is even knowable, or universal. Whether in the good ol days, or bad days, this has never been comparable in any fashion. Your isolated experiences (location, dates, whatever) don't have enough controls to really be of any use in the conversation. We aren't really addressing the true narrative, which is reduced hunter satisfaction. You may not experience a difference in numbers, BUT there is a widespread/universal sentiment from all 4 corners of Alabama that the hunting experience is lesser than it used to be. And a 30 year old man's "used to be" won't even be the same as a 50 year old man's used to be. But again, there's a consensus agreement that something is "lesser" about it.
Just my personal stance on why I have a lesser experience today is because of more hunters. I don't hear anywhere near as much gobbling as I used to, but I still hear enough to enjoy turkey hunting when my anxiety meter isn't pegged by other hunters. Will I get beat to my spot? Am I gonna get walked in on? Did someone come in here during the week when I wasn't able? And there was only 1 bird gobbling down this road to start with, so if another hunter DOES kill him, well damn now I gotta start all over with another bird (and quite often I haven't heard another bird anywhere else). NONE of those factors existed when we were in our hay-day. It literally consumes my thoughts about turkey hunting...when I hear "turkey hunting" today, I don't think of the good parts, I instantly think "Good God there's a bajillion trucks everywhere!!!" It's just barely any fun anymore because you have to split the damn pie so many ways.
I know a lot of hunters don't feel that way, you may just have another personality. But again, I don't worry about predators and nest raiders, or weather, or disease, habitat differences, or ANYTHING besides other hunters. Because all of those things appear to be exactly the same as they used to be. MORE hunters is the only thing that's inarguably different than back then, and it's the only thing that ever affects my hunting. Your mileage may vary.
Ikillbux I respect your opinion and can understand your frustration. I get the same feeling sometimes when hunting private land. The one thing you are wrong about, is the impact predators are having on the population. You might not see it or notice it, but I can assure it's real and a problem. Nearly every study that has been conducted in years past to the most recent is clearly showing this to be a serious problem. When hens aren't successfully hatching and raising a clutch then there will certainly be less resources available. You combine that with all time hunter participation and you have a recipe for poor hunting experiences.
Parrothead posted a pretty telling write up about were we have been across the country and we are now, nothing has changed except for less predator control, more hunters and less resources. There is one fact here, people that can control hunting pressure, habitat management and predator numbers have birds to hunt. No matter what the State DCNR decides to do with season and limits it's not going to change the fact that they have failed miserably at managing the states resources!!! The delayed season and reduced limits has been proven to have no positive impact on the population and it does not work!! They aren't going to spend the money or seek other alternatives to improve hunter satisfaction. They have so much more at their disposal they can do rather than what they did or plan to do.
For the love of god I can't understand why so many people think a government agency is going to fix this or anything for that matter. All one has to do is look at the repeated failure after failure and realize it's a pipe dream!! Our government in all branches is agenda driven and so corrupt no wonder why they fail at nearly all they do. I also don't understand why our biologist in this state and others keep looking for some big unknown as to why we aren't producing turkeys. As noted above it's right in front of their face!
I will also add you have numerous outlaws in this state that consistently kill over the state limit every year to point it's concerning. They have no regard for the resources or their fellow hunters in my personal opinion. There is no enforcement of the current law or limits. I can't tell you the last time I have seen a GW or been checked by one!!
Can a hen effectively defend her nest from a coon/possum or is it over for that site once its found out? If that's the case, its a true miracle of nature that any nests are successful with as many of those rodents are prowling around.
Ikillbux I respect your opinion and can understand your frustration. I get the same feeling sometimes when hunting private land. The one thing you are wrong about, is the impact predators are having on the population. You might not see it or notice it, but I can assure it's real and a problem. Nearly every study that has been conducted in years past to the most recent is clearly showing this to be a serious problem. When hens aren't successfully hatching and raising a clutch then there will certainly be less resources available. You combine that with all time hunter participation and you have a recipe for poor hunting experiences.
Parrothead posted a pretty telling write up about were we have been across the country and we are now, nothing has changed except for less predator control, more hunters and less resources. There is one fact here, people that can control hunting pressure, habitat management and predator numbers have birds to hunt. No matter what the State DCNR decides to do with season and limits it's not going to change the fact that they have failed miserably at managing the states resources!!! The delayed season and reduced limits has been proven to have no positive impact on the population and it does not work!! They aren't going to spend the money or seek other alternatives to improve hunter satisfaction. They have so much more at their disposal they can do rather than what they did or plan to do.
For the love of god I can't understand why so many people think a government agency is going to fix this or anything for that matter. All one has to do is look at the repeated failure after failure and realize it's a pipe dream!! Our government in all branches is agenda driven and so corrupt no wonder why they fail at nearly all they do. I also don't understand why our biologist in this state and others keep looking for some big unknown as to why we aren't producing turkeys. As noted above it's right in front of their face!
I will also add you have numerous outlaws in this state that consistently kill over the state limit every year to point it's concerning. They have no regard for the resources or their fellow hunters in my personal opinion. There is no enforcement of the current law or limits. I can't tell you the last time I have seen a GW or been checked by one!!
Can a hen effectively defend her nest from a coon/possum or is it over for that site once its found out? If that's the case, its a true miracle of nature that any nests are successful with as many of those rodents are prowling around.
Guess we need to start arming hens. #armthehens
Someone posted a video on here awhile back that had a camera on a nest from clutch through hatch. It was incredible the amount of predators that visited that next.
I don't know the rate to be considered good, but one per 1500 acres sounds kinda light to me. Season before last we killed them on one property at a rate of 225 per 1500 acres. That maybe was too much as it dropped off this year to a rate of only 75 per 1500 acres.
Those are accurate numbers, but I will admit that I have read the book, "How to Lie with Statistics."
On a more realistic note, we have averaged around 4 longbeards per season on a 400 acre tract in Perry county. We've killed as many as 6 several times, and have also put up some zeros.
You know of a tract that killed 225 gobblers on 1500 acres? That is a gobbler per 6.66 acres. I am not familiar with a population that is that high for gobblers hens and jakes total. even 75 per 1500 is a gobbler per 20 - maybe what the total population is on most places I am familiar with that is excellent. 4 per 400 is more realistic of good turkey densities. I am familiar with a place that killed 16 on 3,000 acres and had at least 15 left at the end of the season that were still gobbling so undoubtedly more. That was a high harvest in alabama to me - a gobbler per 190 acres. Good places should sustain a gobbler per 1-200 acres in most years. Winter flocks are good indicators of populations but are also reflective of LARGE acreages. These winter flocks of 50, 75, 100 birds spread out in spring over thousands of acres. On one property I work with, in the heyday, I saw 2 flocks of 30+ hens/poults, one flock of 30+ gobblers and one other flock of 75 hens/poults I got pictures of in one afternoon in deer season in one field (ironically called the 200 acre field along a large creek). That is the most turkeys I have seen in a small area and is close to a bird per acre in that field. Funny that in the spring there were 3-4 gobblers gobbling along the creek bottom, same as there was most years. This place is about 1,500 acres and still kills about what they killed in the 90's - 5-7 gobblers per year. What I saw was probably the spring turkeys for the 5-7,000 acres surrounding it.
I don't know the rate to be considered good, but one per 1500 acres sounds kinda light to me. Season before last we killed them on one property at a rate of 225 per 1500 acres. That maybe was too much as it dropped off this year to a rate of only 75 per 1500 acres.
Those are accurate numbers, but I will admit that I have read the book, "How to Lie with Statistics."
On a more realistic note, we have averaged around 4 longbeards per season on a 400 acre tract in Perry county. We've killed as many as 6 several times, and have also put up some zeros.
You know of a tract that killed 225 gobblers on 1500 acres? That is a gobbler per 6.66 acres. I am not familiar with a population that is that high for gobblers hens and jakes total. even 75 per 1500 is a gobbler per 20 - maybe what the total population is on most places I am familiar with that is excellent. 4 per 400 is more realistic of good turkey densities. I am familiar with a place that killed 16 on 3,000 acres and had at least 15 left at the end of the season that were still gobbling so undoubtedly more. That was a high harvest in alabama to me - a gobbler per 190 acres. Good places should sustain a gobbler per 1-200 acres in most years. Winter flocks are good indicators of populations but are also reflective of LARGE acreages. These winter flocks of 50, 75, 100 birds spread out in spring over thousands of acres. On one property I work with, in the heyday, I saw 2 flocks of 30+ hens/poults, one flock of 30+ gobblers and one other flock of 75 hens/poults I got pictures of in one afternoon in deer season in one field (ironically called the 200 acre field along a large creek). That is the most turkeys I have seen in a small area and is close to a bird per acre in that field. Funny that in the spring there were 3-4 gobblers gobbling along the creek bottom, same as there was most years. This place is about 1,500 acres and still kills about what they killed in the 90's - 5-7 gobblers per year. What I saw was probably the spring turkeys for the 5-7,000 acres surrounding it.
Lol, you know me well enough to know you gotta read carefully on something like that.
I said a "rate of" 225 per 1500 acres. That was actually 3 birds off 20 acres, extrapolated to 1500 acres. I told you I was lying with statistics.
I just got some info from game amd fish - 80 folks got caught over bait the first 8 days so that only small scale sample size w limited wardens - u prob had at least 8,000 folks doing that - maybe many more. Also heard many folks were caught hunting early or before season. Thats trashy! With predators and all the outlaws - turkey dont hav a chance
I heard several guys talk about killing over the limit - loser idiots - only one they impressing is their ignorant self and the dummies they run with
When they become extinct - it will be because of greedy bassTurds - Reap it!!! Where did all the sportsman go??? Sad!!
You know of a tract that killed 225 gobblers on 1500 acres? That is a gobbler per 6.66 acres. I am not familiar with a population that is that high for gobblers hens and jakes total. even 75 per 1500 is a gobbler per 20 - maybe what the total population is on most places I am familiar with that is excellent. 4 per 400 is more realistic of good turkey densities. I am familiar with a place that killed 16 on 3,000 acres and had at least 15 left at the end of the season that were still gobbling so undoubtedly more. That was a high harvest in alabama to me - a gobbler per 190 acres. Good places should sustain a gobbler per 1-200 acres in most years. Winter flocks are good indicators of populations but are also reflective of LARGE acreages. These winter flocks of 50, 75, 100 birds spread out in spring over thousands of acres. On one property I work with, in the heyday, I saw 2 flocks of 30+ hens/poults, one flock of 30+ gobblers and one other flock of 75 hens/poults I got pictures of in one afternoon in deer season in one field (ironically called the 200 acre field along a large creek). That is the most turkeys I have seen in a small area and is close to a bird per acre in that field. Funny that in the spring there were 3-4 gobblers gobbling along the creek bottom, same as there was most years. This place is about 1,500 acres and still kills about what they killed in the 90's - 5-7 gobblers per year. What I saw was probably the spring turkeys for the 5-7,000 acres surrounding it.
Squeaky is right. I haven't seen a warden in the Bankhead forest in several years. I will add that back in the day it was common to see 1 atleast drive through weekly. I also live right next door and I don't even see them passing by. We need less talking about this and that and more action.
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