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Re: food plot=baiting [Re: Todd1700] #1647263
02/10/16 04:56 PM
02/10/16 04:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,305
Ozark , Alabama
B
BradB Offline
10 point
BradB  Offline
10 point
B
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,305
Ozark , Alabama
Actually Burbank I probably would do all those things even if I could not hunt. I am at a point in my life where I really don,t care that much about shooting em. Pulled the trigger on an average 3.5 year 9 point this year and that's the first time in 3 years I have shot anything. I really like watching them do their thing. I also have a strong desire to leave my place better in all ways than when I got it. It's been in my family for over 120 years and owning it is both a blessing and a responsibility I take seriously. My post was actually written in sarcasm over the continued debate about what's " bait". Musta missed the mark.

Re: food plot=baiting [Re: ikillbux] #1647286
02/10/16 05:11 PM
02/10/16 05:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
T
truedouble Offline
14 point
truedouble  Offline
14 point
T
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
Originally Posted By: ikillbux
Originally Posted By: truedouble
Originally Posted By: ikillbux
Originally Posted By: BhamFred
so a food plot and a pile of corn are the same....? Really?

maybe IF you have a feeder full of corn, year round. Or at least Aug-April or the life of your food plot.

Problem is, in the real world, most folks put corn out on Fri afternoon, or Sat morning when they are at the club hunting. Corn dosen't start till Oct 15 and ends abruptly the last hunt day of the season.

For those who plant spring/summer plots the difference is even greater if you don't keep the feeder fill 365 days a year. How many of ya corn baiters do this??? Way the hell under 10% I'd say.....


But Fred, in the real world I would bet every dollar I'll ever earn that less than 1% of hunters in Alabama plant year round as well. They'd be the same 1% (+,-) that plant for any reason other than attraction. The rest of us are being grossly disingenuous if we say we plant a food plot for any other reason than to pull our deer "right there" so we can shoot them. Any nutritional benefit is simply coincidental.

I don't put corn out because I think my deer are hungry, I put it out so I can make them come "right there" in front of my camera.


I'll take you up on that bet… I guarantee Whitetail Institute, alone, sells to way more than 1% of hunters that plant fields. Then you have Tecomate that isnt' doing too shabby, WMS right here out of Alabama that sells seed to a lot of folks on this site… Even your avg co-op mix includes a couple of different clovers that provide food way after the corn pile is gone… the debate isn't over intent, it's over food either being there or not being there post hunting season.


I've never been in a club, or associated with one single person, who plants year around for nutritional purposes. And that spans 25ish years and countless properties/people.

Don't get me wrong, I realize and agree with the practice, I just find it difficult to believe a substantial percentage of hunters plant (or otherwise manage forage/nutrition in the form of plots) more than once prior to season, for any intent other than hunting those fields. Even if 10% do, that's a lot of people sewing a lot of acreage, but that still leaves 90% who are only using a plot as "bait".

Now, perhaps you and some of the others in this thread are part of that 1% (or even 10%), so I can see how me using a plot simply for "bait" is different from how you use a plot. In similar fashion, that's also why I would never spend big dollars to buy expensive seed (Whitetail Institute, or Tecomate for example). I've always just used the el-cheapo Co-Op stuff...once dark settles on Jan 31st, I don't care what happens with that field. Just being honest.


At least your being honest but I think you'd be surprised what a lot of people plant now days. Regardless of why, a lot of blends are being planted now days.

Re: food plot=baiting [Re: Todd1700] #1647317
02/10/16 05:43 PM
02/10/16 05:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
T
truedouble Offline
14 point
truedouble  Offline
14 point
T
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
Originally Posted By: Todd1700
Quote:
1. effort- relatively no effort required to pour out a bag of corn, a lot of effort in planting foodplots


What the hell does the amount of effort have to do with what something is? If you hitch a plow to yourself and drag it like a mule; if you crawl along and poke each individual seed hole with your little finger; if you water each seed with your own spit; you know what it will be when it starts to grow out of the ground? BAIT!

It's harder to weave a basket by hand than it is to let a machine make one. But in either case you know what the finished product is? A f#####g basket. Are machine made baskets illegal because they are easier to make?

And this notion that all you have to do is swing by the feed store on the day you are going hunting and buy a sack of corn to pour out under your tree is beyond ignorant. Deer like corn but they have to find it like any other food source. That takes time just like with a green patch. You can't just pour it out for the first time and sit over it that day. It's food not magic pixie dust. Good grief.

Quote:
2. temporary food source vs. 9-12 month out of the year food source (if you supplemental feed, then you can take this difference out, but most don't).


I wish I knew the percentage of Alabama hunters that planted patches that provided 9-12 months of food each year for deer. I bet it wouldn't crack double digits. I'm 50 years old and lived here my whole life. I don't know anyone that does and I know a lot of hunters. The vast, VAST, majority of green patches planted in Alabama each year are just winter wheat, rye grass, or oats. None of which provide year round food. This is just another myth that people dig out of their @$$ to make themselves real superior.


go back and read my post again…you obviously missed the point… the question was how is a food plot different than a bait pile… as for you "thinking" no one plants foodplots that last more than 4 months is irrelevant. A foodplot of any kind will in every case provide food after hunting season is over… how long after, that depends on what's planted, but a heck of a lot longer than the 50 pound bag of corn. If you want to argue about the percentage of hunters that plant a blend that provides food 9-12 months then that is fine… we can go into that too, but my post simply pointed out the differences between foodplots and a feeder or pile of corn. You can't deny facts. I also said the end result on any given day is the same… both are bait, but many differences in how, where, when and for how long…and by the way, how the heck do you know that "The vast, VAST, majority of green patches planted in Alabama each year are just winter wheat, rye grass, or oats. None of which provide year round food. This is just another myth that people dig out of their @$$ to make themselves real superior." That is an ignorant statement at best.

Interesting that pro baiters never know ANYONE that plants anything but cereal grains… You can hardly find a pre mixed blend that offers only cereal grains, but that seems to be what everyone plants. WI, Biologic and Tecomate must be only selling to hunters outside the state of Alabama. WMS as well… and all the crimson and white clover and Ladino clover must be stored in local feed stores and co-ops to sell to people outside the state of Alabama too. slap

Re: food plot=baiting [Re: truedouble] #1647398
02/10/16 07:53 PM
02/10/16 07:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,943
Pine Hill, Al
T
Todd1700 Offline
12 point
Todd1700  Offline
12 point
T
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,943
Pine Hill, Al
Quote:
but a heck of a lot longer than the 50 pound bag of corn.


And here is where you epically fail. You are offended at the notion put forth by me that the average person planting a green patch in Alabama isn't planting 100 dollar a bag year round seed blends which they hydrate only with holy water shipped in from Italy after being freshly blessed by the Pope. Yet you have no qualms suggesting that the average person running feeders puts out just one 50 pound bag of corn. Wow. Is that your idea of a joke or are you about 12 years old?

We plant green patches and supplement feed with feeders year round. I know which is more trouble and costly. The feeders are. If you think that one 50 pound sack of corn or protein pellets will run a feeder for a year then I sure hope you don't work in engineering or anything that leans heavily on practical math applications.

Quote:
You can hardly find a pre mixed blend that offers only cereal grains


They don't buy pre mixed blends. They just buy sacks of winter wheat, rye, or oats. I know the guys who run the local seed and feed stores. My family and I do quite a bit of business with them. Do they sell some of the high dollar seed blends. Sure they do. Are those sales a tiny percentage of the straight up cereal grains? Yes they are. They also sell the overwhelming majority of them just prior to hunting season as well. In the off season when no hunting is going on? Naaa, not so much. So what do I base my opinions on? In a word, reality.

Quote:
and all the crimson and white clover and Ladino clover must be stored in local feed stores and co-ops to sell to people outside the state of Alabama too


Or farmers who plant it for cattle forage. You do know that co-ops and feed stores sell to farmers also.

Last edited by Todd1700; 02/10/16 07:55 PM.

The best index to a person’s character is (a) how he treats people who can’t do him any good, and (b) how he treats people who can’t fight back.
- Abigail van Buren
Re: food plot=baiting [Re: Todd1700] #1647433
02/11/16 01:59 AM
02/11/16 01:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,340
Lamar
F
Fishduck Offline
8 point
Fishduck  Offline
8 point
F
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,340
Lamar
Originally Posted By: Todd1700
[/quote]

Or farmers who plant it for cattle forage. You do know that co-ops and feed stores sell to farmers also.


May be true where you hunt but not here. Been hunting a dairy farm all my life. In the past 20 years clover was planted 1 time as a cover crop & to decrease nitrogen needs. Was a total crop failure. Never seen it used as cattle forage. Simply takes too long to establish & cereal grains produce more tonnage.

Every plot I have planted has clover & every plot on every club I know about included clover in their food plot mix. The clover is a turkey attractant. But it doesn't change the fact that it is growing in these plots.

Last edited by Fishduck; 02/11/16 02:00 AM.
Re: food plot=baiting [Re: Todd1700] #1647487
02/11/16 03:36 AM
02/11/16 03:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
T
truedouble Offline
14 point
truedouble  Offline
14 point
T
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
Originally Posted By: Todd1700
Quote:
but a heck of a lot longer than the 50 pound bag of corn.


Quote:
And here is where you epically fail. You are offended at the notion put forth by me that the average person planting a green patch in Alabama isn't planting 100 dollar a bag year round seed blends which they hydrate only with holy water shipped in from Italy after being freshly blessed by the Pope. Yet you have no qualms suggesting that the average person running feeders puts out just one 50 pound bag of corn. Wow. Is that your idea of a joke or are you about 12 years old?


wrong again, no one I know plants $100 bag of anything unless its RR corn, and I never said that the AVERAGE hunter plants perennials or blends with clovers, just that a lot do … you are trying to argue the fact (that a food plot (green patch as you call it) will provide more food for a longer time period than a "BAIT PILE"). I previously said that if you supplemental feed, year around you can take this difference out… again, go back and read my post. You've also yet to say how you are blessed with the knowledge that hardly anyone plants perennials or blends that provide food for most of the year, and again, I find it just as amazing that you know so many hunters and NONE of them plant a blend.

Quote:
We plant green patches and supplement feed with feeders year round. I know which is more trouble and costly. The feeders are. If you think that one 50 pound sack of corn or protein pellets will run a feeder for a year then I sure hope you don't work in engineering or anything that leans heavily on practical math applications.


good one…you are funny too.. so 50 pounds doesn't last all year??? …you are good at putting words in my mouth…again, go back and read my post…I was talking about people that bait, as in putting out a bag or two of corn near their stand to draw in deer and for no other reason…That is not the same as supplemental feeding. Which I've already said…. again go back and read my post...

Quote:
You can hardly find a pre mixed blend that offers only cereal grains


Quote:
They don't buy pre mixed blends. They just buy sacks of winter wheat, rye, or oats. I know the guys who run the local seed and feed stores. My family and I do quite a bit of business with them. Do they sell some of the high dollar seed blends. Sure they do. Are those sales a tiny percentage of the straight up cereal grains? Yes they are. They also sell the overwhelming majority of them just prior to hunting season as well. In the off season when no hunting is going on? Naaa, not so much. So what do I base my opinions on? In a word, reality.


Up until this point I at least thought you knew how and when to plant foodplots, but I'll explain…"fall mixes" cereal grains, clovers, brassicas, etc. are planted before hunting season, usually from late Sept. (in N Bama) to late Oct. (south Bama). This would be why you don't see much seed being sold after deer season is over. I realize that some, maybe even a lot of people only plant "green patches" with cereal grains, but try to stay with me here… there are hunters, a lot of hunters that plant blends with more than just cereal grains. One more point you can chew on… cereal grains make up a large perentage of just about any mix, so that would be why a co-op/ feed store sells more cereal grains than anything else. Anyway, back to my original point ANY kind of foodplot will provide more food, for a longer time period than a pile of bait.

Quote:
and all the crimson and white clover and Ladino clover must be stored in local feed stores and co-ops to sell to people outside the state of Alabama too


Quote:
Or farmers who plant it for cattle forage. You do know that co-ops and feed stores sell to farmers also.
you finally have a good point, but same store also uses that seed to blend for hunters that plant blends with clover every fall.


I have no idea how I got sucked in to arguing with someone that will not even read what I said, and then picks and chooses certain parts, leaves out parts, then uses what I've already said to argue with me (supplemental feeding for example). anyway, keep on keeping on and tell your green patch hunting buddies that only plant cereal grains that at least those green patches will feed the deer longer than the bait piles. thumbup




Last edited by truedouble; 02/11/16 03:48 AM.
Re: food plot=baiting [Re: Todd1700] #1647546
02/11/16 04:20 AM
02/11/16 04:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,255
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,255
South Alabama
Originally Posted By: Todd1700
Quote:
Anyone CAN legally hunt over bait in Alabama now. Simply put your corn pile/feeder, sweet potatoes, whatever, in or behind a thicket 101 yds from your stand and hunt away.


Yeah, you trust in that and see what happens to you. The warden still has the discretion to write you up if he feels like the corn/feeder benefitted your hunt.


I'll take that to court all day long if it is simply out of line of sight and 101 yds. That was the purpose - to define "area". So since it is legal to bait deer in Alabama and hunt over it, why a 5 page thread over food plots vs bait? unless it is simply to argue.


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: food plot=baiting [Re: Beadlescomb] #1647563
02/11/16 04:35 AM
02/11/16 04:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
T
truedouble Offline
14 point
truedouble  Offline
14 point
T
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
it's just to argue… nothing said here will ever impact the laws

Re: food plot=baiting [Re: truedouble] #1647564
02/11/16 04:35 AM
02/11/16 04:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,739
Jasper, Alabama
V
ValleyDawg Offline
8 point
ValleyDawg  Offline
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V
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,739
Jasper, Alabama
Originally Posted By: truedouble
Originally Posted By: Todd1700
Quote:
but a heck of a lot longer than the 50 pound bag of corn.


Quote:
And here is where you epically fail. You are offended at the notion put forth by me that the average person planting a green patch in Alabama isn't planting 100 dollar a bag year round seed blends which they hydrate only with holy water shipped in from Italy after being freshly blessed by the Pope. Yet you have no qualms suggesting that the average person running feeders puts out just one 50 pound bag of corn. Wow. Is that your idea of a joke or are you about 12 years old?


wrong again, no one I know plants $100 bag of anything unless its RR corn, and I never said that the AVERAGE hunter plants perennials or blends with clovers, just that a lot do … you are trying to argue the fact (that a food plot (green patch as you call it) will provide more food for a longer time period than a "BAIT PILE"). I previously said that if you supplemental feed, year around you can take this difference out… again, go back and read my post. You've also yet to say how you are blessed with the knowledge that hardly anyone plants perennials or blends that provide food for most of the year, and again, I find it just as amazing that you know so many hunters and NONE of them plant a blend.

Quote:
We plant green patches and supplement feed with feeders year round. I know which is more trouble and costly. The feeders are. If you think that one 50 pound sack of corn or protein pellets will run a feeder for a year then I sure hope you don't work in engineering or anything that leans heavily on practical math applications.


good one…you are funny too.. so 50 pounds doesn't last all year??? …you are good at putting words in my mouth…again, go back and read my post…I was talking about people that bait, as in putting out a bag or two of corn near their stand to draw in deer and for no other reason…That is not the same as supplemental feeding. Which I've already said…. again go back and read my post...

Quote:
You can hardly find a pre mixed blend that offers only cereal grains


Quote:
They don't buy pre mixed blends. They just buy sacks of winter wheat, rye, or oats. I know the guys who run the local seed and feed stores. My family and I do quite a bit of business with them. Do they sell some of the high dollar seed blends. Sure they do. Are those sales a tiny percentage of the straight up cereal grains? Yes they are. They also sell the overwhelming majority of them just prior to hunting season as well. In the off season when no hunting is going on? Naaa, not so much. So what do I base my opinions on? In a word, reality.


Up until this point I at least thought you knew how and when to plant foodplots, but I'll explain…"fall mixes" cereal grains, clovers, brassicas, etc. are planted before hunting season, usually from late Sept. (in N Bama) to late Oct. (south Bama). This would be why you don't see much seed being sold after deer season is over. I realize that some, maybe even a lot of people only plant "green patches" with cereal grains, but try to stay with me here… there are hunters, a lot of hunters that plant blends with more than just cereal grains. One more point you can chew on… cereal grains make up a large perentage of just about any mix, so that would be why a co-op/ feed store sells more cereal grains than anything else. Anyway, back to my original point ANY kind of foodplot will provide more food, for a longer time period than a pile of bait.

Quote:
and all the crimson and white clover and Ladino clover must be stored in local feed stores and co-ops to sell to people outside the state of Alabama too


Quote:
Or farmers who plant it for cattle forage. You do know that co-ops and feed stores sell to farmers also.
you finally have a good point, but same store also uses that seed to blend for hunters that plant blends with clover every fall.


I have no idea how I got sucked in to arguing with someone that will not even read what I said, and then picks and chooses certain parts, leaves out parts, then uses what I've already said to argue with me (supplemental feeding for example). anyway, keep on keeping on and tell your green patch hunting buddies that only plant cereal grains that at least those green patches will feed the deer longer than the bait piles. thumbup





You can keep calling it a "green patch" if it makes you feel better, but all it really is, is a big green bait field. Don't be ashamed of it, thats what it is.

Re: food plot=baiting [Re: Beadlescomb] #1647751
02/11/16 07:03 AM
02/11/16 07:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 35
T
Telum Offline
spike
Telum  Offline
spike
T
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 35
First time Alabama hunter here. I've spent my years as a FL resident hunting right over corn sometimes. I've killed them on it and off it.

I'll share my ticket story now that it's done and over with and I tried to fight it in court.

I was placing corn in my plot in front of a camera in the summer to see what kind of deer I had on this new to me club spot. It was my spot to hunt! It came time to plant our winter/fall plot and I did not put a single bit of corn out once my plot was tilled under and planted. This was a month prior to season opener.

But we planted corn stalks on our plots in July. So I had a ton of "LEGAL" corn still on my plot that the raccoons did a good job of spreading out all over the place on my plot.

Again, I placed no corn out over a month prior to opening day of bow season.

Come opening day of bow season, the man walks in on me and goes right to where I used to put corn out over the summer (he had been in there before and knew exactly where to go). He walked right past all my "LEGAL" corn stalks and cob corn on the ground.

He kicked the dirt and started digging into the dirt with his boots. He found about 5 kernels of old corn that had roots etc... This corn had been tilled under, was growing roots etc... My corn stalks were about 15 yards away! He WROTE ME A TICKET! I asked and pleaded with him why that he was writing me a ticket for this when I had a ton of LEGAL corn everywhere. He just said, "I'm just doing my job and there's still corn there where you placed it!"

Being the truthful person I am, I said, sure I put it there a long time ago and it had been tilled under and was old and you had to dig it out of the dirt with your boots etc... It didn't help. Went to court over it and that officer got up there and lied through his teeth saying that I had fresh scattered corn in a larger area. Lied right to the judge under oath.

Even when he wrote me the ticket, he said, he pretty much knew I was not "baiting" but he wrote the ticket anyway.

Alabama's rules are simply crazy!!!!! Either allow it or don't! Planting corn or putting it out on the ground is no different! And writing me a ticket for month old corn growing roots when I have fresh "LEGAL" corn 15 yards away is just ridiculous!!!!!!

Re: food plot=baiting [Re: Telum] #1647795
02/11/16 07:45 AM
02/11/16 07:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,149
Covington county AL
Zzzfog Offline
6 point
Zzzfog  Offline
6 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,149
Covington county AL
Originally Posted By: Telum
First time Alabama hunter here. I've spent my years as a FL resident hunting right over corn sometimes. I've killed them on it and off it.

I'll share my ticket story now that it's done and over with and I tried to fight it in court.

I was placing corn in my plot in front of a camera in the summer to see what kind of deer I had on this new to me club spot. It was my spot to hunt! It came time to plant our winter/fall plot and I did not put a single bit of corn out once my plot was tilled under and planted. This was a month prior to season opener.

But we planted corn stalks on our plots in July. So I had a ton of "LEGAL" corn still on my plot that the raccoons did a good job of spreading out all over the place on my plot.

Again, I placed no corn out over a month prior to opening day of bow season.

Come opening day of bow season, the man walks in on me and goes right to where I used to put corn out over the summer (he had been in there before and knew exactly where to go). He walked right past all my "LEGAL" corn stalks and cob corn on the ground.

He kicked the dirt and started digging into the dirt with his boots. He found about 5 kernels of old corn that had roots etc... This corn had been tilled under, was growing roots etc... My corn stalks were about 15 yards away! He WROTE ME A TICKET! I asked and pleaded with him why that he was writing me a ticket for this when I had a ton of LEGAL corn everywhere. He just said, "I'm just doing my job and there's still corn there where you placed it!"

Being the truthful person I am, I said, sure I put it there a long time ago and it had been tilled under and was old and you had to dig it out of the dirt with your boots etc... It didn't help. Went to court over it and that officer got up there and lied through his teeth saying that I had fresh scattered corn in a larger area. Lied right to the judge under oath.

Even when he wrote me the ticket, he said, he pretty much knew I was not "baiting" but he wrote the ticket anyway.

Alabama's rules are simply crazy!!!!! Either allow it or don't! Planting corn or putting it out on the ground is no different! And writing me a ticket for month old corn growing roots when I have fresh "LEGAL" corn 15 yards away is just ridiculous!!!!!!


What county and who was the judge and warden?


Right and wrong will never change---only people's perception!
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