</a JR Holmes Oil Company </a Shark Guard Southeast Woods and Whitetail Mayer Insurance Services LLC
Aldeer Classifieds
James Spann for Governor
by Bulls eye. 03/14/25 10:34 PM
FS: AR-15 Upper Stainless barrel
by Ron A.. 03/14/25 07:54 PM
2011 Chevy Z71
by Nicholas5138. 03/14/25 06:13 PM
Chevy SM465 4 speed
by doc bar. 03/14/25 04:43 PM
Gun Show canceled
by murf205. 03/14/25 08:14 AM
Serious Deer Talk
Burn Day 2025 (with a very happy ending!!)
by Okatuppa. 03/14/25 10:57 PM
FL Bear Season ?
by hunterbuck. 03/14/25 10:50 PM
CAB meeting March 8th
by Auburn_03. 03/14/25 09:06 PM
Where?
by Backwards cowboy. 03/14/25 07:46 PM
WMA man days?
by Sasquatch Lives. 03/14/25 10:56 AM
March
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31
Land, Leases, Hunting Clubs
South AL Club or Lease
by toothdoc. 03/14/25 11:08 AM
Updated Agency Website With Hunting page
by mw2015. 03/13/25 03:18 PM
Molag Timber Properties
by KM1980. 03/11/25 02:30 PM
NE MS lease spot available
by juice. 03/05/25 11:48 AM
South al hunting club
by Droptine-13. 03/05/25 01:31 AM
Who's Online Now
28 registered members (Paint Rock 00, Auburn_03, Bake, jlbuc10, bhammedic84, Young20, mathews prostaff, msims767, Turkeyneck78, cmontgomery, Fishduck, jaredhunts, joe sixpack, Chaser357, COOTER, hosscat, OlTimer, riflenut, Cutem, m2ruger, BC_Reb, Scout308, janiemae, fur_n_feathers, zwick, Peach, 2walnuts, 1 invisible), 518 guests, and 0 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Managing deer/genetics question? #2336278
12/18/17 03:50 PM
12/18/17 03:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 167
Jacksonville, AL
C
CVAwolf Offline OP
3 point
CVAwolf  Offline OP
3 point
C
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 167
Jacksonville, AL
I've been searching for an answer and couldn't find anything that answers these question, so bare with me.

Example:
Suppose you have bucks that (for arguments sake) are older, say 4 yrs +.
Suppose those same bucks never had the genetics to grow anything more than say 4-6 pts.
And also add this to the equation. Since these bucks cannot be taken legally (area law etc), they pretty much breed with the same doe's year after year.

Questions:
1. Are those buck/doe combinations ALWAYS going to produce lower quality bucks?
2. If 1. is true, how much effect does the quality of the doe contribute to the quality of their buck offspring?

For instance, does a crappy doe contribute in making a crappy buck or, does the bucks genetics singly effect it's offspring entirely. Which is complicated in itself since Doe's often breed with numerous bucks each year.

Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336289
12/18/17 03:56 PM
12/18/17 03:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 316
Shelby County
S
SouthernRoots Offline
4 point
SouthernRoots  Offline
4 point
S
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 316
Shelby County
By no means an expert.. but I would assume based on general sexual reproduction that the female would have about half as much to say in terms of antler genetics, assuming antler formation is not a sex linked trait. Could it be that the the genetics from the Does father has more to do with it? Like male patterned baldness??????
Just spit balling. You would think there would be some pretty good information out there as much deer farming is going on.

Last edited by SouthernRoots; 12/18/17 03:56 PM.

IG - @_teamsouternroots_
Legacy: Planting the seeds and knowing you will never see the fruits.
Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336303
12/18/17 04:00 PM
12/18/17 04:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,458
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,458
Right behind you
Antler genetics is not very understood, especially in freerange environments. There is so much variation i wouldn't be too concerned with the few mature bucks with less quality antlers changing the overall herd genetics. It's not possible due to the vast amounts of gene transfer occurring each breeding season from dispersing bucks.

Thinking those bucks will breed with the same does each year isn't likely either. Herd dynamics change so much from one season to the next that's not going to be a problem.

Deer populations are constantly changing, almost daily, from other forms of natural mortality we usually don't even consider.

Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336426
12/18/17 04:59 PM
12/18/17 04:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 167
Jacksonville, AL
C
CVAwolf Offline OP
3 point
CVAwolf  Offline OP
3 point
C
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 167
Jacksonville, AL
All good info and insight. Thanks guys
I kinda think of it like us humans..and it's roughly 50/50, of course there's a lot more to it.

I was just thinking something like;

Say you had 5, 4 yr old bucks and 20 does in a caged area. No buck had no more than 4 pts.
So will their offspring ever have more than 4 pts?

I would think so, but that's kinda the info I would like to find..Guess they just haven't got there yet..

Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336438
12/18/17 05:08 PM
12/18/17 05:08 PM

S
sgtred
Unregistered
sgtred
Unregistered
S


What does "area law" have to do do with taking deer

Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336451
12/18/17 05:13 PM
12/18/17 05:13 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,649
bham
C
crocker Offline
10 point
crocker  Offline
10 point
C
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 3,649
bham
This is why 8pt or better rules are not good for management. You end up with
Mature 5 and 6pt doing all the breeding. It will have an affect in the long run.

Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336452
12/18/17 05:14 PM
12/18/17 05:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 167
Jacksonville, AL
C
CVAwolf Offline OP
3 point
CVAwolf  Offline OP
3 point
C
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 167
Jacksonville, AL
sgtred...Like an area where you can only shoot say 4+ pts on one side..

Last edited by CVAwolf; 12/18/17 05:15 PM.
Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: ] #2336453
12/18/17 05:15 PM
12/18/17 05:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,458
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,458
Right behind you

Originally Posted By: sgtred
What does "area law" have to do do with taking deer


I assumed he meant some of the WMAs that have Point restrictions.

Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336478
12/18/17 05:35 PM
12/18/17 05:35 PM

S
sgtred
Unregistered
sgtred
Unregistered
S


10 4 confused me

Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336484
12/18/17 05:40 PM
12/18/17 05:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
J
joshm28 Offline
14 point
joshm28  Offline
14 point
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,375
Jasper, AL
The odds of this happening is slim. Does typically push their young buck offspring away. The young bucks on your property more than likely moved in from other areas. The gene pool would never be that limited.

Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336490
12/18/17 05:48 PM
12/18/17 05:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 167
Jacksonville, AL
C
CVAwolf Offline OP
3 point
CVAwolf  Offline OP
3 point
C
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 167
Jacksonville, AL
I appreciate all the info here.
This isn't about any property I own or lease etc., just something I've thought about from time to time.
I would love to find something published discussing this so if you find anything related, please add a link..
Others may find this interesting as well.

Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336510
12/18/17 06:10 PM
12/18/17 06:10 PM

S
sgtred
Unregistered
sgtred
Unregistered
S


Deer farmers are beginning to believe the doe is more important in the genetic equation, but they don't breed any trashy bucks to them either.they say that certain does have hellacious bucks no matter which one breed her with

Last edited by sgtred; 12/18/17 06:12 PM.
Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: Mbrock] #2336837
12/19/17 06:11 AM
12/19/17 06:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,274
Lamar Co, AL
BamaGuitarDude Offline
12 point
BamaGuitarDude  Offline
12 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,274
Lamar Co, AL
Originally Posted By: Mbrock
Antler genetics is not very understood, especially in freerange environments. There is so much variation i wouldn't be too concerned with the few mature bucks with less quality antlers changing the overall herd genetics. It's not possible due to the vast amounts of gene transfer occurring each breeding season from dispersing bucks.

Thinking those bucks will breed with the same does each year isn't likely either. Herd dynamics change so much from one season to the next that's not going to be a problem.

Deer populations are constantly changing, almost daily, from other forms of natural mortality we usually don't even consider.


^^^ this squares with everything i read on the subject about 3-4 years ago when i kept seeing "wonky" racks (ie great on one side, goofed up/weird on the other) ... i personally took the stance of culling those wonky bucks after 2+ years of seeing them regularly on stand ...


ALDeer physics: for every opinion, there's an equal & opposite opinion

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336849
12/19/17 06:23 AM
12/19/17 06:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,997
coffee county
goodman_hunter Offline
Booner
goodman_hunter  Offline
Booner
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 10,997
coffee county
I've heard deer, game dog, and game chicken breeders all say, they felt like the female gentics had more to do with the outcome of the young. That aint very scientific. But that has to be something their for theses different people to have the same idea.


"A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers"
Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2336851
12/19/17 06:25 AM
12/19/17 06:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 5,704
Your Lock-on
Whild_Bill Offline
🦞 Crawfishing Asshat 🦞
Whild_Bill  Offline
🦞 Crawfishing Asshat 🦞
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 5,704
Your Lock-on
If you think you me and hunters can manage the genetics then you have been watching way too much outdoor channel. Try spitting in the ocean and measuring the affects, its about the same thing. Just shoot old mature deer and forget about the rack its what we do and we just know what works for us.


We Just Know What Works For Us
Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: Whild_Bill] #2337012
12/19/17 08:41 AM
12/19/17 08:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,079
USA
R
Remington270 Offline
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Offline
Freak of Nature
R
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,079
USA
Originally Posted By: Whild_Bill
If you think you me and hunters can manage the genetics then you have been watching way too much outdoor channel. Try spitting in the ocean and measuring the affects, its about the same thing. Just shoot old mature deer and forget about the rack its what we do and we just know what works for us.


Truly unbelievable. Whild Bill has the most rational post in a thread.

Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: Remington270] #2337018
12/19/17 08:46 AM
12/19/17 08:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,024
alabama
BhamFred Offline
Freak of Nature
BhamFred  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 37,024
alabama
Originally Posted By: Remington270
Originally Posted By: Whild_Bill
If you think you me and hunters can manage the genetics then you have been watching way too much outdoor channel. Try spitting in the ocean and measuring the affects, its about the same thing. Just shoot old mature deer and forget about the rack its what we do and we just know what works for us.


Truly unbelievable. Whild Bill has the most rational post in a thread.


the end is in sight.....


I've spent most of the money I've made in my lifetime on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted.....

proud Cracker-Americaan

muslims are like coyotes, only good one is a dead one
Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: Remington270] #2337026
12/19/17 08:52 AM
12/19/17 08:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,274
Lamar Co, AL
BamaGuitarDude Offline
12 point
BamaGuitarDude  Offline
12 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,274
Lamar Co, AL
Originally Posted By: Remington270
Truly unbelievable. Whild Bill has the most rational post in a thread.


must've taken his medicine today


ALDeer physics: for every opinion, there's an equal & opposite opinion

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2337029
12/19/17 08:53 AM
12/19/17 08:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,797
A
abolt300 Offline
Booner
abolt300  Offline
Booner
A
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,797
^^^^Been saying for months that Whild Bill is a genius. The man knows his stuff and "he just knows what works for him"

Re: Managing deer/genetics question? [Re: CVAwolf] #2337080
12/19/17 09:24 AM
12/19/17 09:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,370
Houston County
H
Hoytdad10 Offline
8 point
Hoytdad10  Offline
8 point
H
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,370
Houston County
Whild Bill, the man, the myth, the legend.


A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Aldeer.com Copyright 2001-2024 Aldeer LLP.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.167s Queries: 17 (0.096s) Memory: 3.2771 MB (Peak: 3.5638 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2025-03-15 10:00:49 UTC
</a