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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: ikillbux]
#3189640
08/12/20 11:03 AM
08/12/20 11:03 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 20,322 North AL
AU338MAG
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 20,322
North AL
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We break ground on a new house next week, will have a ceramic walk-in shower in the master. Thread caught my attention. We'll be on a slab (which I guess mitigates the risk somewhat), but I have no clue how our builder's tile sub does it, never gave it any thought. For a true walk in shower, you will have to recess the concrete so the tile man can build a sloped mud bed.
Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales
Molon Labe
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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: BowtechDan]
#3189733
08/12/20 01:27 PM
08/12/20 01:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 276 Covington County
big mike
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 276
Covington County
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Schluter also makes a drain kit to fit existing drains.
"My dear brothers,take note of this:Everyone should be quick to listen,slow to speak and slow to become angry..."James 1:19
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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: AU338MAG]
#3189740
08/12/20 01:48 PM
08/12/20 01:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,323 Chelsea, AL
straycat
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,323
Chelsea, AL
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We break ground on a new house next week, will have a ceramic walk-in shower in the master. Thread caught my attention. We'll be on a slab (which I guess mitigates the risk somewhat), but I have no clue how our builder's tile sub does it, never gave it any thought. For a true walk in shower, you will have to recess the concrete so the tile man can build a sloped mud bed. Exactly. That's why I was asking about what "walk in" ultimately meant for BowtechDan Doing a true walking (no curb, no step up) on an existing slab will obviously complicate the installation. Key point to consider: 1. Where is the existing drain that served the garden tub? End, corner, side? 2. Location of existing rough in drain plumbing if to be left as is will dictate things. If you want to tear out and rework, you will have more flexibility. 3. Getting a positive slope with enough slope to the shower drain...from the open end and all side walls. You will have to make a recessed area in the finished slab to make this happen for a true walk in without curb or step up. 4. Schluter makes a nice linear drain that makes the sloping easier because the drain will pick up more water due to the configuration. 5. You need to run your waterproofing membrane system out past the shower entry door at least 3-4 feet (there is an exact spec but I don't remember it exactly), making sure you turn it up the perimeter walls. Open showers put more water than you realize out onto the regular floor. Not a super big deal on a slab...but you need to expect moisture creep under the tile going to any framed wall and the bottom plate. There will not be any slope there outside of the shower but for whatever variance there is in the slab when it was poured and finished. So for that reason the drainage mat needs to go out of the shower a little ways and up the wall 4-6" or whatever is specified to handle incidental water and keep it inside the membrane rather than migrating to your bottom plate framing. You will not have an end dam or turn up out in the open tile floor so you need to allow enough distance here. 6. I've seen many remodeled bathrooms that simply put the system over the whole floor in the bathroom to handle # 5 above. Remodel...Call the man unless you know exactly what you are doing. Ikillbux...new construction isn't a problem because the builder has opportunity to account for that shower in design and planning phases and then implement it correctly at pour and construction. What could go wrong?  Seriously though, then can work that in and not have any trouble.
Last edited by straycat; 08/12/20 01:52 PM.
"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: BowtechDan]
#3189759
08/12/20 02:19 PM
08/12/20 02:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,764 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,764
Boxes Cove
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Easiest for him is to have a curb and build up inside to get enough slope. I don't think I'd want it with no curb even if I could .
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: BowtechDan]
#3189851
08/12/20 05:04 PM
08/12/20 05:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,311 Buc-ee’s Beach Express
leroycnbucks
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,311
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
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I’ve always used Laticrete 9235 over the Hardie backer board walls and over the floor mud in the shower floor. Like others said it is very important to properly install the vinyl pan according to the National Standards for the installation of ceramic, porcelain and mosaic tile. Getting the slope in the shower floor isn’t that difficult if you can read a level. Screw the drain up leaving about a quarter of it still threaded. Put some duct tape over the drain and cut it to fit. This will keep the floor mud out of your drain. Dump some floor mud around the drain and pack it good with a plastering trowel. Then make you a notch stick out of a piece of baseboard or screed stick about a foot long. Cut a gap out of the corner the thickness of the tile plus the thinset. Use this to sweep around the drain. Then add more floor mud from the drain sweep grade to a corner. Screed this with a 2,3, or 4’ level whichever works best to get the slope you are after. Doesn’t take much slope to drain. Once that screed is established then screed your floor mud level line corner to corner. Then work the floor mud screeding off your slope and level points while working your way out of shower floor. You can wet set your floor tile working off of floor boards which is a whole different skill set or you can let it dry and thinset it down.
I learned how to set tile before there was backer board and thinsets. We nailed metal lathe to the studs and did a scratch coat the first day. The next we muded it in. Wall mud was a mixture of mortar sand, lime and Portland cement. You set your mud sticks plumb and square and worked the mud with a hawk and trowel and screed it the access off with blade straight edges. Hard damn work. Then you had to soak the tile in number 3 wash tubs so it wasn’t so porous while installing it with white cement. Everything flat was mud wet set with gray cement working off of floor walk boards. Grout was made by sifting the large aggregate out of the mortar sand in a screen wire box and mixed with either white cement for the walls and gray for the floors. Not many master mechanics that now how to do these methods anymore.
Thinsets and backer board made the installation of ceramic tile a whole lot easier on your body. But it also opened it up to unskilled jack legs.
Proud Army and ALNG veteran God Bless America!
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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: BCLC]
#3189918
08/12/20 06:59 PM
08/12/20 06:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 649 Enterprise
stuball
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 649
Enterprise
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Schluter-Kerdi shower system .... . I used this system and worked great. I got the whole system, floor and wall. Very easy, just take your time!
Do the hard right verses the easy wrong
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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: BowtechDan]
#3189958
08/12/20 08:19 PM
08/12/20 08:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,323 Chelsea, AL
straycat
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,323
Chelsea, AL
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Yeah, I'll have a small lip or curb to step over. The drain is placed normal in the tub on the left side. I'll make the wall on the left side about 6' high. Planning on replacing the window with a smaller one up high that will open up to vent. Need to find some bricks that match the exterior best I can. Need to figure out the tile design. Good thing is this room has a shower, so no rush to get it done once I start destroying stuff. When complete, I'll convert the smaller shower into a linen closet. Time to plan. ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/SDIdspb.jpg) If you do a small curb to step over you'll be in good shape for slope without having to rework existing slab. Remember to not cut the corners of the membrane at curb and wall intersection...you'll be tempted to cut because the folding can often be troublesome; take membrane over and down outside of curb; seal both the holes and the screw heads of the metal glass clips that you put on the top face of the curb (pilot holes, fill with sealant, then install clips). I've investigated dozens of shower leaks, most of which could have been very easily avoided.
"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: straycat]
#3190005
08/12/20 09:06 PM
08/12/20 09:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,311 Buc-ee’s Beach Express
leroycnbucks
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,311
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
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99.9% of shower pan failures happen at the top of the curb due to failure to wrap the curb and the inability of the tile man to properly fold the pan and the waterproofing membrane. Some of the crap I’ve seen and replaced could have easily been avoided like Mike said. But then again I’ve seen pans nailed to studs below the shower drain head. I tore out one where the jack leg installer didn’t know how to fasten the pan to the drain flange so he just cut out a big circle and laid the pan over the drain.
Proud Army and ALNG veteran God Bless America!
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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: leroycnbucks]
#3190063
08/12/20 09:51 PM
08/12/20 09:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,318 Madison
BowtechDan
OP
Old Mossy Horns
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OP
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,318
Madison
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99.9% of shower pan failures happen at the top of the curb due to failure to wrap the curb and the inability of the tile man to properly fold the pan and the waterproofing membrane. Some of the crap I’ve seen and replaced could have easily been avoided like Mike said. But then again I’ve seen pans nailed to studs below the shower drain head. I tore out one where the jack leg installer didn’t know how to fasten the pan to the drain flange so he just cut out a big circle and laid the pan over the drain. What do you mean by "top of the curve"? Seriously asking. I'm planning on making sure the waterproof membrane is up high all the way around.
Nathan Carl Goff 19 Sept 2016 - 14 Jan 2017.
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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: BowtechDan]
#3190075
08/12/20 09:58 PM
08/12/20 09:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,311 Buc-ee’s Beach Express
leroycnbucks
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,311
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
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99.9% of shower pan failures happen at the top of the curb due to failure to wrap the curb and the inability of the tile man to properly fold the pan and the waterproofing membrane. Some of the crap I’ve seen and replaced could have easily been avoided like Mike said. But then again I’ve seen pans nailed to studs below the shower drain head. I tore out one where the jack leg installer didn’t know how to fasten the pan to the drain flange so he just cut out a big circle and laid the pan over the drain. What do you mean by "top of the curve"? Seriously asking. I'm planning on making sure the waterproof membrane is up high all the way around. The step over that the shower door sits on. In the industry we call it a curb. Make sure you wrap it all the way over for a water tight seal.
Proud Army and ALNG veteran God Bless America!
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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: BowtechDan]
#3190417
08/13/20 01:06 PM
08/13/20 01:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,323 Chelsea, AL
straycat
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,323
Chelsea, AL
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Example of a 2 million dollar Bham area home with shower issues. Case has been resolved so I can post photos. Curb ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/Gp0yRXRq/DSC-0002.jpg) Glass Clip ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/Hk8yFfqr/DSC-0006.jpg) Backer nailed through membrane at top of curb...no sealant ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/X7z5HVzM/DSC-0029.jpg) Resulting damage to curb ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/ZYjpNPP5/DSC-0043.jpg) Cut corner of pan at shower floor and wall intersection; resulting damage to framing ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/9FMTY41t/DSC-0200.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/sxnWRyfh/DSC-0222.jpg) Being on a slab will eliminate some of this from being possible, just take care of the curb to wall transitions and your wall perimeter corner conditions so your wall framing will not have issues down the road.
Last edited by straycat; 08/13/20 01:09 PM.
"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8
"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
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Re: Tile Walk-in Shower
[Re: BowtechDan]
#3190473
08/13/20 02:08 PM
08/13/20 02:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,753 Moody, AL
willdo22
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 4,753
Moody, AL
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Those are great pocket knives.
A mans got to know his limitations.
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