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Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: ShootemupTex] #4089075
02/23/24 10:53 AM
02/23/24 10:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 108
A
B
BurningBright Offline
3 point
BurningBright  Offline
3 point
B
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 108
A
Originally Posted by ShootemupTex
[/quote]

Good point, but a little more nuanced. The existing ruling was based on the Civil Practice Code which is basically the procedural rules of the courts, not statutory law over residents. It's a small part of the procures that says who can bring a lawsuit for the wrongful death of a child, i.e. to keep your crazy Aunt Judy who never met the child from filing a B.S. suit. Sure the legislature could pass a law defining a "child" more precisely as a minor or unborn child in the womb to make the child definition in the civil procedures apply, but still the Alabama S.C. court has stuck their snout and made their opinion clear, which means any act passed by the state leg, could be knocked down or considered already knocked down by the courts.

I ain't a legal scholar, but they created a cluster. I'm not sure if the S.C. court's rulings have the effect of overruling law as it does on the federal level in the state courts. Hopefully, someone smarter than me can weigh in. I'm curious if this can be fixed by the state legislature.

Added in the fact we are very close if not already there to turn an embryo into a baby outside a womb and you wonder in AL SC were actually taking a peak over the horizon when making this ruling.

"The ruling is actually somewhat narrow. It applies to three couples who had sued the Center for Reproductive Medicine, a fertility clinic in Mobile, for inadvertently destroying their embryos. The plaintiffs argued that they were entitled to punitive damages under Alabama’s 1872 Wrongful Death of a Minor Act. Two lower state courts disagreed, saying the embryos were neither people nor children. The State Supreme Court reversed those rulings, saying that the embryos fell squarely under Alabama’s definition of minors and that the negligence lawsuits could proceed. The case will now go back to the State District Court for further litigation."



I am not sure what you mean in this first paragraph. This was not a procedural-based ruling. It was the court interpreting a statute. Yes, the wrongful death of a child act does state who can bring suit. That was not the issue the court decided here. The court held that the Act's reference to a child included embryos frozen for IVF. The opinion directly cites the fact that the legislature did not define the term child. If the legislature does that, the Court will abide by it. I apologize if I am coming across as argumentative. That is not my intent. I have just seen a lot of confusion about this decision and am trying to explain.

To your second paragraph, yes, the Ala. SC can overturn a state law. However, that is not what happened in this case.

To your third paragraph in the quote above, yes. That is essentially what the ruling did in the context of the wrongful death statute.

Your fourth paragraph is a very good summary of what happened. It is put much better than I did.

Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: TexasHuntress] #4089222
02/23/24 05:07 PM
02/23/24 05:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 20,117
North AL
AU338MAG Online IMG_0051.GIF
Freak of Nature
AU338MAG  Online IMG_0051.GIF
Freak of Nature
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 20,117
North AL
Appears to me the Alabama SC applied the law as written by the legislature. This is what we want our courts to do.

In making this ruling the SC was also telling the morons in the legislature the law needs to be reviewed and revised.


Dying ain't much of a living boy...Josey Wales

Molon Labe
Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: TexasHuntress] #4089635
02/24/24 01:56 PM
02/24/24 01:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 769
Alabaster
ShootemupTex Offline
Went Ass First
ShootemupTex  Offline
Went Ass First
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 769
Alabaster
Decent AL.com article.[url=https://www.al.com/news/2024/02/alabama-bill-would-protect-ivf-treatments-after-courts-frozen-embryo-ruling.html][/url]https://www.al.com/news/2024/02/ala...s-after-courts-frozen-embryo-ruling.html

Looks like bi-partisan bills are being submitted to fix this. I appreciate the perspective of the court:

The Wrongful Death of a Minor Act “applies to all unborn children, regardless of their location,” wrote Alabama Supreme Court Justice Jay Mitchell. “[T]he Wrongful Death of a Minor Act is sweeping and unqualified. It applies to all children, born and unborn, without limitation. It is not the role of this Court to craft a new limitation based on our own view of what is or is not wise public policy. That is especially true where, as here, the People of this State have adopted a Constitutional amendment directly aimed at stopping courts from excluding ‘unborn life’ from legal protection.”

I'm so sick of the judicial branch legislating from the bench. He pointed out the flaw in the law and legislature is fixing it. I got no dog in the fight, but it's good to see the process work for once. If only the Federal Govt would behave accordingly.

Last edited by ShootemupTex; 02/24/24 01:57 PM.
Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: TexasHuntress] #4089664
02/24/24 03:00 PM
02/24/24 03:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 42
Alabama
L
Lockwood Offline
spike
Lockwood  Offline
spike
L
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 42
Alabama
Good. IVF results in the murder of ensouled embryos. My heart goes out to people with fertility issues who have used IVF, but it is ethically unconscionable to allow it to remain legal.

Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: Lockwood] #4089675
02/24/24 03:30 PM
02/24/24 03:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 13,816
Montgomery, Alabama
jaredhunts Offline
Puts sugar in his cornbread!
jaredhunts  Offline
Puts sugar in his cornbread!
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 13,816
Montgomery, Alabama
Originally Posted by Lockwood
Good. IVF results in the murder of ensouled embryos. My heart goes out to people with fertility issues who have used IVF, but it is ethically unconscionable to allow it to remain legal.

Nope
Nope
Nope!
You are wrong.


It be's that way sometimes.

www.sunpoolcompany.com
Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: TexasHuntress] #4089706
02/24/24 05:47 PM
02/24/24 05:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,614
Meridianville
DryFire Offline
14 point
DryFire  Offline
14 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,614
Meridianville
I liked Tubbernuts response. He thinks frozen embryos are handed out to women like candy, just so they can have babies.

Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: DryFire] #4089713
02/24/24 05:57 PM
02/24/24 05:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,317
Birmingham
W
wew3006 Offline
Booner
wew3006  Offline
Booner
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,317
Birmingham
Originally Posted by DryFire
I liked Tubbernuts response. He thinks frozen embryos are handed out to women like candy, just so they can have babies.


So; you are against IVF?

Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: jaredhunts] #4089787
02/24/24 08:41 PM
02/24/24 08:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 42
Alabama
L
Lockwood Offline
spike
Lockwood  Offline
spike
L
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 42
Alabama
Originally Posted by jaredhunts
Originally Posted by Lockwood
Good. IVF results in the murder of ensouled embryos. My heart goes out to people with fertility issues who have used IVF, but it is ethically unconscionable to allow it to remain legal.

Nope
Nope
Nope!
You are wrong.


Not an argument

Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: DryFire] #4089805
02/24/24 09:29 PM
02/24/24 09:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,317
Birmingham
W
wew3006 Offline
Booner
wew3006  Offline
Booner
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,317
Birmingham
Originally Posted by DryFire
I liked Tubbernuts response. He thinks frozen embryos are handed out to women like candy, just so they can have babies.


Do you have link to that quote? I would like to read it in context and can't find it? Thanks

Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: Lockwood] #4089808
02/24/24 09:32 PM
02/24/24 09:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 14,314
Mobile, AL
S
SouthBamaSlayer Offline
Gary's Fluffer
SouthBamaSlayer  Offline
Gary's Fluffer
S
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 14,314
Mobile, AL
Originally Posted by Lockwood
Good. IVF results in the murder of ensouled embryos. My heart goes out to people with fertility issues who have used IVF, but it is ethically unconscionable to allow it to remain legal.

Sooooooo how is it unethical?

Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: SouthBamaSlayer] #4089842
02/24/24 10:49 PM
02/24/24 10:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 8,489
Moundville, Al
SuperSpike Offline
The 46 Year Old Bowhunting Virgin
SuperSpike  Offline
The 46 Year Old Bowhunting Virgin
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 8,489
Moundville, Al
Originally Posted by SouthBamaSlayer
Originally Posted by Lockwood
Good. IVF results in the murder of ensouled embryos. My heart goes out to people with fertility issues who have used IVF, but it is ethically unconscionable to allow it to remain legal.

Sooooooo how is it unethical?

It’s not. Lots of comments are made on this subject from people who know nothing about the process of IVF or why people use that method to have children. It’s not just for infertility. And for the record, it’s not IVF that was the issue. It’s what’s done with the frozen embryos afterwards is what’s the issue.

Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: Lockwood] #4089882
02/25/24 06:39 AM
02/25/24 06:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,322
Lamar
F
Fishduck Offline
8 point
Fishduck  Offline
8 point
F
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,322
Lamar
Originally Posted by Lockwood
Good. IVF results in the murder of ensouled embryos. My heart goes out to people with fertility issues who have used IVF, but it is ethically unconscionable to allow it to remain legal.


You should educate yourself before making such a foolish statement.

Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: Fishduck] #4089899
02/25/24 07:52 AM
02/25/24 07:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,289
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
leroycnbucks Offline
Freak of Nature
leroycnbucks  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,289
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
Originally Posted by Fishduck
Originally Posted by Lockwood
Good. IVF results in the murder of ensouled embryos. My heart goes out to people with fertility issues who have used IVF, but it is ethically unconscionable to allow it to remain legal.


You should educate yourself before making such a foolish statement.



Yes he should. As well as the others who just can’t help themselves from making stupid comments.


Proud Army and ALNG veteran
God Bless America!
Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: wew3006] #4089972
02/25/24 10:04 AM
02/25/24 10:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,614
Meridianville
DryFire Offline
14 point
DryFire  Offline
14 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,614
Meridianville
Originally Posted by wew3006
Originally Posted by DryFire
I liked Tubbernuts response. He thinks frozen embryos are handed out to women like candy, just so they can have babies.


So; you are against IVF?


Opposite. I am 100% for IVF. The frozen embryo ruling is wrong.

Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: wew3006] #4089973
02/25/24 10:06 AM
02/25/24 10:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,614
Meridianville
DryFire Offline
14 point
DryFire  Offline
14 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,614
Meridianville
Originally Posted by wew3006
Originally Posted by DryFire
I liked Tubbernuts response. He thinks frozen embryos are handed out to women like candy, just so they can have babies.


Do you have link to that quote? I would like to read it in context and can't find it? Thanks


Al.com

Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: jaredhunts] #4089975
02/25/24 10:11 AM
02/25/24 10:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,614
Meridianville
DryFire Offline
14 point
DryFire  Offline
14 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,614
Meridianville
Originally Posted by jaredhunts
Lesbians don’t want to adopt.


IVF, was how my two neighbors had their baby.

Last edited by DryFire; 02/25/24 10:11 AM.
Re: IVF Paused at UAB (Maybe Statewide?) [Re: DryFire] #4089976
02/25/24 10:14 AM
02/25/24 10:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,317
Birmingham
W
wew3006 Offline
Booner
wew3006  Offline
Booner
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 12,317
Birmingham
Originally Posted by DryFire
Originally Posted by wew3006
Originally Posted by DryFire
I liked Tubbernuts response. He thinks frozen embryos are handed out to women like candy, just so they can have babies.


Do you have link to that quote? I would like to read it in context and can't find it? Thanks


Al.com

Nothing there about “handed out like candy….” ; in fact he says we need more kids. He was not really very familiar with the ruling?

Last edited by wew3006; 02/25/24 10:21 AM.
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