What has significantly changed since 1986 from a predator standpoint??.....Coyote populations…….…..I believe nesting is probably being significantly disrupted by coyotes compared to back in the 70’s and 80’s when there was none…..They’re likely flushing hens from the nest and causing nest abandonment more so than what used to occur…..also in the last decade or so likely coon populations as well due to the significant amount of baiting that’s occurring....Avian predators are also more prevalent now than back then

I agree.. We trapped a lot in the late 70s and 80s. Never thought about a coyote or armadillo. Didn't bait deer, dog hunted. There were huge blocks of hardwoods then, and in the late 80s they started getting cut.

Take away predators and turkeys are generalists that can survive in just about any habitat....I would bet that it wasnt so much the huge blocks of hardwoods directly benefiting the turkeys as much as it was those huge blocks of hardwoods not supporting predators and then the new habitat that replaced them (pines) did

I'd say cell cameras plus bait is a severe issue.

Do you think Chuck has evidence that populations are declining? What’s your opinion on why he’s got us hunting in shorts and a t shirt?

Because he bought into Chamberlain’s “theory”, which has basically been thrown out after a couple of conclusive studies. The most recent one in TN. They were looking for excuses to lower the limit and push the season back before Chamberlain’s theory because of some modeling baloney that suggested it would increase turkey numbers. They set up a flawed study in AL that never produced an ounce of actual conclusive data because it was a bad design to begin with. It showed absolutely nothing. They couldn’t even hit the target number of birds to sample in the study due to inadequate capture techniques. But they plowed ahead anyway due to pressure. The amount of predators wild turkeys face today is hundreds of times more than the late 1900s and early 2000s. Avian predator populations have increased, nest predator populations have increased. Large predator populations have increased. All at the same time this has occurred land use patterns have changed and active management has decreased. Now add the instant gratification crowd that thinks it’s cool to turkey hunt, not because they love the wild turkey or the game, but because social media has made it the thing to do and popularized it. They should’ve placed more focus on educating the public on predator control and habitat management workshops instead of forcing bag limit and season changes. Wildlife populations flourish when landowners buy in to what they need to thrive.

Makes sense. I don’t understand why he wants to push season back. I don’t understand a lot of things Chuck does.

The landowners with the largest tracts in my neck of the woods are timber companies. Would providing some kind of assistance or incentives at a state level be something possible to make controlled burning worth considering as an option? I thought from a timber management perspective, there was many benefits for them to burn as well. Am I wrong or are the benefits if any not worth the risk? I lease a good bit of timber land for hunting and if they would allow, I would pay the forestry service myself to have it burned.

A burnt nest is a burnt nest. No guarantee they will renest. Anyone who claims to be a scientist while representing as fact something they cannot measure is talking out of their backside. People need to understand biologists tout results whether or not they can provide them just like stock brokers.

The late burning started with Dei hiring. A wildlife refuge I hunt was about out of turkeys until they finally stopped burning nests. Now they have turkeys while the neighboring lands which did not take a hard line on late burning have not caught up.

It only decreases if you call them out on their nonsense. The forestry people and the biologists cover for each other. They get their checks from the same source and it ain't you.

Burning at any stage of a rotation has very little impact on industrial timberland productivity with modern rotation ages, combined with the silvicutural practices available currently. And it can carry risk and cause negative productivity. So, y’all do the math on whether that will ever be something that will be a widespread option.

Good news - turkey can exist and in certain areas - thrive - without it. Obviously, fire frequency can add to success, as another tool in the toolbox. But don’t get trapped into thinking it’s the magic answer all the time, at every location.

Sorry bud, but you’re wrong. Biologists in both the private sector and government use data, research and science to base their decisions. I’ll choose to trust ppl who actually manage habitat over those who simply talk about it. There’s plenty of science out there. Some good. Some bad.

Not this chit again

Poult survival to me is the the biggest factor
Some things I’ve read reinforce that thought.

Poorcountrypreacher always talks about his centipede lawn being an attractant for young poults.


They have to be able to navigate habitat and spring burns create that habitat. Doesn’t matter how many nest if they poults get killed early on.


I’ve always contended that turkeys cycle like grouse. Have no proof etc…. Just a gut feeling lol.
Like last year being such a strong hatch thruout the south it seemed.

Predators matter but we don’t do any predator control yet we had poults all over the pace last year.

In my opinion the those flying predators take out more poults than all others combined.

All of that is worth the nickel in my pocket.

I have finally concluded what we experienced on the creek was just an abnormality
It was awesome for some time though.

What do you think of this idea? It seems to make some sense as a contributing factor?

https://m.facebook.com/groups/650219898384203/permalink/29096493673330112/?

I certainly believe that avian predators are hell on poults. Gobbler and others say their large plantation clients are not showing a decrease in turkeys and many are showing an increase. If I was betting as to why that is I'd say 1) fire 2) most plantations are killing a ton of avian predators whether legal or not.

Killing Avian predators???

I heard that’s tough. I also heard that if you have any tips on it PM me.

Years ago i met an old man that had a hawk trap on his property. Think 4x4x4' box with two 2x4' spring hinged one way doors on the top. All wrapped in chicken wire. He would catch a live squirrel or rabbit in a box trap and put it in there. Bird dive bombs threw the top, gets the bait and is stuck in there.

Id light more fire tomorrow if the humidity would come down. Have plenty of nesting cover right now but would like to increase the brood cover for this year's poults.

👍

So the doors swung one way into the trap and the bird just tried to dive bomb in the doors?