I understand what you are saying, but it is more than belief. Satan believes he just doesn't accept. We need faith, surrender and acceptance.


Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
Originally Posted By: Bamarich2
Originally Posted By: R_H_Clark
Realize what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-20 is vital - we do not have the authority to relax anything which is found in the NT.

It certainly is but you have failed to understand it. Jesus fulfilled the law. He is the only man to ever have done so. It is by his fulfillment of the law that you are saved, not by your own. If you fail to understand that , then you are still living under the old covenant which has grown old and is ready to pass away. Under that old covenant, you will be judged by your acts and there is no person who can satisfy those requirements. If righteousness came by the law, than Christ has died in vain.

You must understand that you are saved by grace alone, not your obedience, or you have missed the entire New Testament. It is an understanding of grace and who you are because of it that will cause you to obey God's laws. It is not your obedience of laws that cause you to be saved.


Understand completely about Matthew 5:17 ff... my point there was that EVERY word in the bible is important - not just some. Whether then or now, Jesus doesn't endorse relaxing anything found in God's word.

As you claim I must understand that I am saved by grace alone, you cannot harmonize this statement with 1 Peter 1:21 or even Ephesians 2:8. God chooses to save when man responds to His offer of grace. The demons understand this system of grace, but they fail to respond accordingly (James 2:19). Regarding your citation of Romans 4:3, you can find the exact opposite idea in James 2:21. In that same passage, we learn that Abraham wouldn't have been justified had he not obeyed the Lord. One of the cardinal rules about drawing any conclusions about a biblical topic is to examine everything the NT says about a subject... James' text supplements that of Paul's here.

I do have a question for you though... at what point is a person saved? Is there anything he/she must do in order to be saved initially?


To be saved a person must believe God. You must Believe that God sent his son to be your savior and accept that what Jesus did on the cross, saved you from your sins.

The scripture is very clear that Abraham didn't do anything to be righteous except believe God. Abraham's actions were simply a result of his belief. The entire book of Romans is dedicated to showing you that you are justified by faith without works.Also Galatians. take the entire book of James into consideration and he is not saying that a man is justified by works, he is saying that a justified man has works as a result of his faith.

I never said that a man didn't have to believe or have faith in grace for it to be active in his life, but you are not saved by grace plus anything you can do except believe. If you are saying you must believe, then I completely agree with you. If however you say you must do something else, I do not agree with you.

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