Here's that field a little later in the summer. The heavy deer browsing in these fields is actually creating a situation where I'm not left with enough above ground biomass.

When you get your %OM tested during your soil test, do you include the duff layer or do you scrape it off like a normal soil test?

I doubt that the OM from my fall food plot is all used up because I disc my plot to plant my next fall plot. The structures have been there from September last year, until this September when I disc. Shortly after my discing, more structures are starting to form from the root system of the new fall plot. Without the material breaking down, the plants can't use their nutrients that are left behind. Maybe this is why the throw and grow method takes time to build up useable nutrients in the duff layer.

You don’t want to have to keep “rebuilding” the structure though with every crop. This creates undue stress on the crop through having to use energy that it would not have otherwise had to if the root channels were already there. Having that structure in place gives the next crop an advantage especially during years when plants may be stressed. They can easily reach deeper depths during drought periods where hopefully more soil moisture is present. Again this goes back to water infiltration.

Lets just say we planted corn in behind the radish. Instead of asking the corn to trail blaze its own way down into the soil…. we leave the root tunnels behind that the radish formed to give the corn roots an already established pathway deep into the ground. This is one of the main functions for using radishes. They are your trailblazer down to depths of 3-4 ft. It allows the roots of the corn crop to easily reach depths that it might otherwise have never achieved. This is another side note to also consider…..The radish has not only blazed a trail of tunnels deep into the soil profile, buts its also taken OM deep into the soil profile. There is no need to turn OM under to get it to the root zone when you have large radish bulbs rotting at depths of 3+ ft…..depths deeper than most mechanical means are capable of placing OM.

Yes…..this is one of the reasons its hard for farmers to convert over to no-till. There is a lag time in nutrient availability. The upside though is that long term, once that nutrient lag “catches back up”…your efficiency and overall fertility becomes greater with the no-till due to all of the advantages that we’ve been discussing….improved water infiltration, improved moisture retention, improved nutrient holding capacity, etc,,etc,,. It just takes a little time to get everything cranked up and going. There is a link further back in this thread that actually goes into looking at the economics of it from a farming perspective. For us as food plotters though transitioning is not that big a deal. You just need to have a little patience while the rebuilding process starts taking place. Its like a lot of other things in nature...it takes time to change.

Firstly, corn lying on top of the ground at our place gets eaten.


I'm having the best of both worlds. I'm getting my radishes with their long root growth and I'm cutting in the material that's growing above the soil. My discing depth is not disrupting the 3-4' root growth of the radishes. Disced earth will allow the water to infiltrate to the root tunnels of the radishes.

As far as stressing the crop, I didn't notice it last year. I say last year, because last year is the first time that we limed our fields to soil sample requirements. No lime was required this year. I guess we'll have to see how it goes this year. All I know is our plants have looked as tall and healthy as the ones that you post. I'm not sure our deer are smart enough to know the difference, if I changed methods.

In the end all you can do is weigh the options and decide what works best for you. One of the reasons I chose to go with the throw and grow no-till method was not only for the benefits in soil health but also for the time and money savings that I gain through having a much simpler planting method. This a great benefit when trying to plant a large hunting club full of plots all in one work weekend like many folks do. Again though, I’m just putting the info out there…..each individual will have to make their own decision.

I do that too some, but most of the grasses I grow are in the winter. Here's another summer patch. Sunflowers, corn, and iron and clay peas.



Here's corn and beans in the same plot.

We can post pretty pictures back and forth all day but in the end it doesn’t really tell the whole story when we start talking about the finer details of soil health and how the results were achieved. One of the most important things to look at is something that’s really hard to see and that’s the efficiency with which our fields are using the nutrients we apply. Many folks have figured out that if you just keep dumping out enough fertilizer and get some timely rainfall, then you can achieve “pretty” results in most years. However, with the price of inputs like fertilizer and fuel…..the efficiency in how we got there can make a big impact on your wallet. When you talk about dealing with large hunting clubs like many of us do, food plot budgets only extend so far and you really want to get the most bang for your buck. Whether its been farmers or food plotters, a vast majority of folks have been horribly inefficient with their use of water and nutrients over the last few decades. Just google and read about the nutrients that have leached into the major rivers. Its not all about whether or not someone can grow a “pretty” crop…..it’s a lot about how you got there and the efficiency with which are using the resources you apply. The problem is we are just not able to see the inefficiency in our fields. Look in the waterways though and you can. No, I doubt us food plotter are contributing large amounts to that fertilizer in the Mississippi river.....but many folks are using the same inefficient methods.



http://investigatemidwest.org/2012/11/01/the-story-of-nitrogen-a-trip-down-the-mississippi/

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fertilizer-runoff-overwhelms-streams/

http://www.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/06/06/dead-zones-grow-in-the-gulf-of-mexico


Another “pretty” pic…..back to you Fur.....

CNC,


What are the fertilizer recommendations for your plots per your soil sample results?

I'm done with the back and forth. I posted pictures to show that I have been successful growing superior food plots on land that is inferior to most. At the end of the day I don't really care how you plant what you plant. I'll do it the way that works best for me, and I hope others do what works best for them too, without taking what I say, or what you say as the gospel truth.

Oh, and anyone who couldn't grow a crop of crimson clover mixed with some rye needs to quit planting food plots.

I haven’t sent my test in for this fall yet but just looking at a single test is not really going to tell you much from the standpoint of what your probably looking for. It will likely give the same general N recommendations that it gives anyone else depending on what you’re growing. My Ca will likely show good to high this time because I just applied some lime back in the spring. P will likely be good and K recommendations will depend on how well my soil held on to and recycled the last potash I applied. The efficiency numbers that you are looking for will be something that you just have to monitor over time on your own plot. What I will be looking for in my sandy soil is an improved ability to hold on to my Ca and K overtime. I’ll also start looking for the need to apply less N while still getting good results. Nitrogen usage is something that’s not on a soil test but you can generally eyeball deficiencies in your soil by looking at plant color. I’ve been experimenting with adding different amounts of N to my field to see what effects different rates have as well as trying to identify at what point I’m applying more than my soil can handle. Like I was saying, my soil is very sandy and has a low holding capacity.

I went and ran my disk for hours today. I just like the tractor seat time and the smell of fresh worked dirt.

Did you end up buying a disc? I know earlier in the year, seems like you were looking and mentioned buying a new Tufline.

I did. Bought a 10 ft Tufline. So far I like it. My 65 HP kubota pulls it with no problem at all.

….but Fur…..It’s not just crimson clover. Its crimson and durana mixed. Doesn’t the white compliment the crimson well? Rowwwww Tide!!!!!



Wait……I know what you’ll like Fur……Brassicas.

Like I was saying…..A pretty picture is nothing more than that….its just a pretty picture and just throwing one or two our there for folks to ooohh and ahhhh at doesn’t scratch the surface of someone’s true knowledge of the subject. Like I said in the beginning…...there's plenty of people quick to jump in with their credentials or how many acres they farm or telling how much they know…….but there are very few who ever actually back it up. They tend to start saying stuff like “I’m not going to debate all night”…or “I don’t have a photographic memory and cant remember all things I’ve done”…or :”I could go on and on about it but I’m not going to”.



2Dogs…..Are you still keeping score?

Sweet!

As always CNC very impressive. Lots of respect for what you do. I always enjoy your posts

I've read where you said a healthy soil only has to be "topped off" with nutrients. How many lbs of K and P, recommended by a soil test, do you consider "topping off?"

Nice turnips, root crops grow well in sandy soil, that's why they grow Taters on Sand Mt. I'm still likin' Furs beans.