But people are not born with deformity or any mental disease because God likes diversity. They are born with ailments because the earth is cursed from original sin.

Personally, I consider homosexuality an ailment. No one has to agree with me but I'm not changing my mind either.

"Every judge who rules in favor of "gay" marriage or adoption should be strung up on the nearest light pole."

Sounds kind of like Sharia Law to me.

Naw, redneck law, much better!

The George Washington quote (actually John Adams) is from the Treaty of Tripoli and has been perceived in different ways. This is a just a small part of the entire phrase.

"John Adams Did Not Say This
This came across Facebook today. The following quote was supposedly attributed to John Adams, one of our founding fathers: “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” The quotation was offered to somehow invalidate the fact that our country was founded on Judeo-Christian values. The problem with the quotation is that John Adams never said or wrote it.

The quotation is, in fact, part of Article 11 of The 1797 Treaty of Tripoli. The full text is: “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” The treaty was written by an American diplomat, John Barlow. It was approved by John Adams and ratified by The Senate.

Here’s where things get muddy. The English version of the treaty did contain Article 11, but the Arabic version did not. Furthermore, a treaty with The Barbary States was critically needed to protect U.S shipping interests in the area, and the U.S. government did not want to delay by arguing the finer points of an agreement. The Barbary States were at war with any nation that did not have such an agreement, and the U.S. was in no position, militarily, to deal with the threat until eighteen years later when it had the upper hand. Tribute was paid to the pirates until 1815, after the 2nd Barbary War which followed the conclusion of The War of 1812, when the treaty was renegotiated and Article 11 was dropped. It may be further noted that no such verbiage as Article 11 is found in any of the treaties with the other Muslim pirate states. This invalidates the argument that Article 11 belonged in the text and would have been welcomed by Muslims.

If you want to look at other treaties as evidence, you need not look further than The Treaty of Paris of 1783, which is a formal recognition of our independence from Great Britain, which was negotiated by Ben Franklin and John Adams. Its first words are, “In the Name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.” The words or validity of this treaty are in no way in dispute.

One final point, John Adams did write in 1798, after the first ratification of The Treaty of Tripoli, in a letter to the officers of The First Brigade of The Third Division of The Massachusetts Militia, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

Does God give "rednecks" the power to be judge, jury and executioner?

It's a joke buddy.........maybe.

It is not life, Virtuous liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

That is in direct disagreement with the Word of God and the teachings of Christ. God knows us before we are born and create each and every one of us. We are each made the way God wants us to be. It is the choices (due to the free will he made within us) that cause us to stray from His purpose for us. There are no accidents. Everything has a reason, a consequence, a beginning, and an end. We are His chrildren, made in his image.

Also, Adam was made in His image, but Eve was a creation from God to provide Adam with companionship. What would the world look like had Eve been made differently or not been made at all? Ever pondered that? When you dig deep, you find some deeper meaning.

When the last breath of life is being drawn many of the non believers will cry out to God but it will be too late.
The christian has everything to gain but the non believer has everything to lose.

Really, so every deformity is because God planned it that way? That's about the dumbest and least scriptural thing I've ever heard.

Jesus sure went around disagreeing with a lot of God's plans by healing deformities of all kinds.

let gheys get married... more women for me

Andy, I must respectfully disagree with parts of your assessment of what Scripture says directly about sin, sin nature, free will, fall of man, fallen world and consequences, and what "in God's image" fully means, and a few other things I'm scratching my head about.

God may allow birth defects and deformities and various afflictions to manifest in our lives, but that does not in any way mean he desires, wishes or wants it for diversity sake. It also isn't based on our choices...sin is at the root of it all. God is holy and just. When sin entered the world, so did the fallen state of man. But God didn't leave us like that, he all along had designated Christ to be our Redeemer and our Hope.

RH Clark was pretty accurate in what he wrote. I don't see the conflict.

I know that, gimme a little credit.

I worded it like that to make the point that aligns with what most of the founders and leaders of the late 1700s envisioned. The kind of liberty envisioned and understood to be the best was one that was virtuous. Our founders came from a place where honor, virtue, integrity, character and moral uprightness were integral parts of great government AND great culture. A history study of Rome and their intimacy with Europe despotism, tyranny, and the church drove them. The quotes I listed are just a sampling of the writings that set the stage and give us insight into the ideals impacting the formation of our country.

Which to you makes the most sense and is the most beneficial? Liberty based just on freedom alone or Liberty that is based on freedom but has at its core a sense of goodness and honor and justice and truth?

It was understood that Liberty could be perverted and lost, but that virtue of the people and virtue of the government itself was the preserving safeguard of that precious Liberty.

First, you're basing Liberty on scripture by saying the virtue and truth are absent without it. No, virtue and truth are evident in good men and can be nurtured by society, as evidenced here. Aldeer is not religiously based, but it is a good place because honest and virtuous men congregate here. Not all here believe in Christ, and not all have similar beliefs about religion, but most here respect others. It's that mutual respect which keeps things civil. When that crumbles, so does a society. There are good, virtuous men who are lost and without Christ. Truth and virtue can exist without religion, but religion cannot exist without truth and virtue. They are NOT mutually dependent.

On birth defects, are they not similar to disease in how they might manifest in us? I am a cancer survivor. Cancer is a genetic malformation that transpires in the body. It is not brought on by virus or a biological intrusion. Because of that, it is very similar to a birth defect in that they are also genetic abnormalities.

I believe surviving cancer was God's plan for me. I would not be the man I am without that experience. It brought me closer to him because it made me seek Him out and let my worries belong to Him. Can a person born with an affliction do the same? Is God not in complete control and we are not fowing a master plan for the world? When we come to a fork in the path of life, does God wonder which one we will take? No, he already knows.

I'm saying that bad things happen to good people, and it's part of God's plan for us and this earth. The reason we have to endure these things is because of original sin, but we are the ones who made that original sin part of God's plan. Now, we have to live with it and everything it brings with it. Adam and Eve were free from disease, strife, hardship, as well as sin. Sin opened the door for the rest. Once here, sin became a part of this world, and therefore God's plan. If this were not according to God's plan, don't you think that He would do something about it before it got off track since He is all-knowing? If you believe in God's power, then you have to believe that He is in control. If He is in control, then He is in control, period.

^^ Now that I have an easy time agreeing with on most every point regarding sin, disease and God's sovereignty. Much different than your other post. Sometimes it just takes a long and full explanation because this is a complex issue.

I'll disagree on the relationship between liberty and virtue. God is the only sole author and authority of truth,goodness, morality, virtue, freedom and liberty. He is the source. So when He created and endowed us with naturally rights, his very character is inherently part of them. They cannot be separate ultimately, even though we as people do our best to split them apart. Notice that I've said little about organized religion.

We may differ on that. No problem.

Everything that happens doesn't happen because it was God's will for it to happen. God gave us free will and because of sin we have a choice to either do his will or suffer the result of sin. Also the effect of sin is even in the earth it'self causing bad things to happen.

You have to understand that there is a difference between God's permissive will and his perfect will. His perfect will is for you to prosper and be in health. He will however permit you to make all kinds of foolish choices. God doesn't cause bad things to happen to us so that we will learn from them, but he will teach us things through the bad things if we allow him to. Often it is only when our hearts are softened by trouble that we will even seek and listen to God, but we have a choice to seek him every day, good or bad.

There is an enemy in this earth called Satan. He is here to steal, kill and destroy. Read John 10:10. You have removed Satan from the picture completely and blamed God for everything that happens, trying to reason within yourself that the bad was for some higher reason that you just don't understand. That's just not sound doctrine and is not scriptural.

Look at Jesus and his ministry. He came healing all manner of sickness and disease that were caused by Satan, not God.

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power; who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him" (Acts 10:38 KJV).

1 John 3 says that the Son of God was manifest for this purpose—to destroy the works of the devil

Hebrews 2:14: "for as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood...." He took flesh and blood. Why? That through death he might destroy him that had the power of the death—that's the devil.

Luke 13:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?


Look at The Lords Prayer and how he taught us to pray.

Matthew 6:9-13 King James Version (KJV)
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Jesus taught us to pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. He would not have told us to pray this if everything that happens , happens because God will's it to happen. If that were true Jesus would have in fact have been going about working against God all through his ministry. Even when Jesus rebuked the storm, he did so because God did not send the storm.

Yes, God is in control, but only to the extent that we allow him to be, because he has given control to us. We know that it's God's will that none should perish in Hell, but God will allow ,in his permissive will ,anyone to go to Hell that wants to.That doesn't mean that it was his will.

Yes, all things work together for the good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose, but only because God is always working for the Good, even in the midst of disaster that he didn't cause. God is like a father that teaches a child a lesson when he gets burned on the stove, but he doesn't turn on the stove and guide our hand into the fire to teach us a lesson.

Why does the state have to be involved in marraige anyways? If you want to get married, do it through the church. I don't like how the state can take half of a mans wealth and give it to a woman who was in the wrong solely because they were married and had a life together. If you want to sign contracts, do it. If not, don't. It makes it convienient to let the state recognize your relationship, but I honestly don't think it's all that necessary. Get rid of the whole government institution of marraige and hand it over to the church. The gheys wouldn't be able to get married and a lot of bad couples wouldn't either. I know there's some holes in this idea, but it's better than letting the state handle it.
Being "fair" is what has gotten our country to this point.

Nevermind, I just read the story about the preacher with aids and I now retract my last post.

The bottom line is that our beloved country is ever increasingly abandoning many of the first principles of our founding. Ideals like Honor, Virtue, Goodness, Integrity, Morality based on Christ, and many others are slowly fading away or either being re-defined to the current age. Orwellian "newspeak" has arrived, or so it seems...what was understood and true "yesterday" now has a new definition today.

Gay marriage is here to stay. Slowly it will reach more and more states and eventually it will reach the federal level with full reach. And folks, that is THE priority goal for the progressive gay rights groups and numerous powerful democrat leaders and power broker citizens. When LGBTQ (lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, transgendered, questioning) becomes a "protected class" of people (like gender, race, ethnicity, religion, age) then the wheels of this country will start to fall off at an alarming rate. We already have had progressive sex education in our schools for a while that promotes LGBTQ agendas. We see it more subtly in movies and TV shows. Little by little, inch by inch, the homosexual and other lifestyles are being pushed to be accommodated, then tolerated, then accepted, then implemented.

I don't see enough resistance to stop it...so I fully expect within the next 5-10 years LGBT will be a protected class and gay marriage will be in every state. As a protected class, then businesses are subject to discrimination litigation or coercion, schools will change even more, and our houses of worship may also be in the cross hairs even more.

The institution of marriage and family is a pillar of this nation. By design. Screwing that up screws up communities, cities, states and our nation over time. This is why many of us care and speak out against gay marriage. It is not that we hate gay people. Some might, but a person following Christ should not.

There is zero excuse for the Christian body to not love the person who happens to be LGBT. We are called to love, but to also present the truth of the Gospel. We are also called to stand firm against the lies, distortions, evil, schemes (agendas) and immorality that have Satan as the author. How do you love and stand firm at the same time????

Well you have to be honest with yourself. We all fall short and sin. We all have our struggles and temptations and sin nature where we do not follow God as we should. So why would or should we hate on someone else when we ourselves have issues? We shouldn't, less we are hypocrites. Does this mean we should accept, condone or ignore the sin or behavior or agenda...absolutely not. We are to always be truthful and direct, but in love. Stand firm, but in love. Tell the truth, in love. Disagree, but in love. Share the Gospel, in love. Fight the good fight, with love.

Don't be deceived. There is an agenda driving this train. That is were we should fight and rebuke in the Lord's name, because this is the spiritual war/battle being waged. Sit back and take it? Or fight the good fight?

Gay Marriage---No harm, no foul? Only if you are blind or deceived.

clark

i thought the reason for the lords prayer was because god said he already knew what man wanted so he should just say "our father, which ....

about the other stuff, I understand what yawl are saying. And that sounds good from that perspective. Why cant the rest of us have freedom to smoke, drink, gamble, cuss, have sex other than missionary position, have sex out of wedlock, and other outlaw stuff that we like. Like the guy crying about the gay parades, why does he keep going to them if he dont like em. Everything your saying sounds good, but thats why god gave us free will. So we could choose whether or not to do the right thing, not do the right thing because there was no other choice. If god saw fit to give us free will, what gives one person the right to take that free will from another.