No person has the right to take free will away from another. Look at all my posts and you will see that I have never advocated that. I actually agree with the poster that said that marriage should be taken away from the state and be left up to the church.

Christians shouldn't hate anyone for any of the choices you list. I certainly don't because I know I have too many of my own sins to be pointing my finger at you.

What I do advocate is that God's plan is better than ours. I advocate following his plan completely, even though I stumble through it myself. God isn't against all the things you list because he doesn't want us having any fun. God is against sin because death is associated with every sin. God just knows that there are certain things you can't do if you want to live a happy, fulfilling, and long life.That's why God doesn't want us involved in those things.

As far as the Lords Prayer, it was Jesus's response when the disciples asked Jesus how to pray. It's more of a guide for prayer rather than just a prayer to be recited.

Our father who art in Heaven
In this verse we meditate and realize that through Jesus God really is our father. We can express gratitude for his adoption and ask for the guidance of a father.

Hallowed be thy name
Here is where we praise God for his name which is above all names.We acknowledge God as supreme and holy. We praise his name as we are reminded of all he has done for us.

Thy kingdom come
We are expectantly awaiting for God to set everything right at his coming. We long for his Justice and the restoration of all things that will come when his kingdom is fully established on the earth.

And so on
A person could pray for hours just on the guide of our Lord's prayer.

Straycat, It couldn't be any clearer than what you printed. Thank you!

clark
that second paragraph wasnt really for you. I did like how you put it in an early post, when you said, or at least my interpretation of what you said was, dont worry so much about this sin or that sin, or how not to sin, work on your personal relationship with the lord and everything else will fall in line. That is a very good way to look at it.

Gay isn't contagious. If a gay couple wants the same legal benefits that come with marriage then that's fine with me. They have the same chance of staying together in a committed loving relationship as anyone. How other people choose to live their lives doesn't concern me.

I appreciate that you read and got something from it. You probably said it better and simpler than me.

The financial, legal, and social aspects of marraige are the only reasons gheys want to get married. It's not about god. God is the only reason that could possibly hold water among everybody on why they shouldn't get married. Other than that reason, there's none besides personal opinion/biases. Too bad for the separation of church and state. The only thing I can think of is to take it away from everybody and reform it without the state. That's the only way you could exclude people based on beliefs or sexual orientation. In doing that, you also open up doors to people starting all sorts of bogus churches and "little white chapel" type horseschit. It's not a fight that can be won in my opinion.

Both you and atheistTodd are wrong.

First, ALL laws have moral underpinnings - even environmental regulations are based on *some ones* moral/ethical opinion.

But more to the point: despite all the legal, just and moral reasons for homosexual sodomy to be a crime, all those anti sodomy laws have virtually never been enforced in the entire historical of this country going to back to the pilgrims. And THAT is a historical fact. There has NEVER been a big problem in this country EVER with Sodomites being arrested for engaging in sodomy in the privacy of their own homes.

And YES, I would agree and always have been of the view that what adult Sodomites do with each other in the privacy of their own home is a private matter. And the SCOTUS in the Lawrence v. Texas case over ten years ago struck down such sodomy laws - SO THAT HAS NOT BEEN AN ISSUE SINCE.

THE REAL ISSUE is the PUBLIC promotion, and the PUBLIC forcing by radical atheist groups to FORCE the entire morally bankrupt and perverted homosexual agenda on the entire country. THAT is the problem - not personal privacy of consenting adults in private. THAT has never been an issue in this country as I stated previously.

I challenge you go to research the matter and tell us how many sodomite have actually been arrested and prosecuted in his country the last 400 years for what they did in private.

You are seriously confuse and misled. The freedom established and envisioned by the Founding Fathers is ORDERED LIBERTY, not total anything goes, anything is legal anarchic liberty which is promoted by those radical atheist secularist Marxist leftists who are AT WAR with the legal, political and constitutional beliefs of the Founding Fathers.

Yes, what consenting adults do in the privacy of their home is no ones business. BUT THIS IS A PUBLIC ISSUE with sodomites and lesbians promoting their agenda PUBLICLY like a bunch of perverts with the help and complicity of the liberal media, Hollywood, TV, etc. That is the distinction here. IT is a *clear* and *obvious* distinction.

And make no mistake, the enemy, and that is exactly what they are, are already promoting pedophilia, transgender marriage and polygamy as legal also. And personhood for animals, yes animals. So, it is all down hill from here, and all in
the name of "liberty" - a perverted form of liberty not intended by the Founders in any way.

The best you can do is to keep talking about Iran = pea brain with no morals, no decency and no common sense. And no historical knowledge of this country.

FYI, the overwhelming majority of people in the overwhelming majority of the States VOTED to ban gay marriage in their States. Even California did. And it is godless moral bankrupts (like you) sitting on federal (primarily) benches that are overturning the will of the people to declare that the Constitution grants a constitutional right to sodomites and lesbians to marry.

Insanity and perversion is all that is.

THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT GRANTS/RESERVES ANY SUCH RIGHT. READ IT. IT IS NOT THERE.

What we have now is the TALIBAN GAY MAFIA **FORCING** their Satanic agenda on the entire country, and they only make up 1% (at most) of the country.

Iran.....like I said, 12 year old argumentation.

Hello, you very intelligent individual. If the sodemy laws were "never enforced", then why did the Supreme Court have to say they were unconstitutional? That would prove that the laws were enforced.

Also, I do have a small amount of legal training, but, I must not be as smart as you, so I will give up. You at closed minded and obviously do not I drstand what freedom and liberty mean. Also, what the majority wants doesn't make it legal. The majority in the 1960s still wanted blacks segregated. Was that legal, or constituional?

God says it is an abomination.

It should NEVER be supported, accepted or condoned....EVER!

It is also gross, unnatural and something children should not have to be exposed to seeing or others supporting it.

My word how far has the moral fabric of America fallen! What is wrong is supported and what is right is called intolerant. How very sad the moral decay of this once great nation.

integration was considered unnatural at one time too...

So procreation is a miracle? no science behind it? what about all the medical advancements that have allowed us to live this long?

How were people on this planet before Yeshua wondered this planet? If god protects and love christians so much then why did he allow thousands of them to be killed in 9/11? or any Christian soldier die in the sandbox fighting those dirty mussies?

Do you deny science?

Ian,

God and true science harmonize well. The Bible isn't a textbook, but what we see in creation confirms the biblical narrative.

Historical secular science...lots of conflict there which is to be expected from science based on evolutionary assumptions.

God allows death, disease and suffering because he is just in addition to loving. Sin brought on a fallen world. Christ brought salvation and hope. Just and loving. A Christian who died...is now with the Lord in glory...nothing better.

I don't deny real science.
Do you deny the real God?

Again, you keep arguing against a notion "NO ONE" has stated. Not a single person in this thread has advocated an anything goes society with no rule of law at all. Are you mentally challenged? Have you sustained a recent head injury? Why are you unable to grasp this simple fact? Why don't you go on a rant accusing us of being in favor of jock itch since no one has mentioned it either. Would make about as much sense as you do with this horse s##t.



You accusing someone of historical ignorance is like being called anti-Semitic by a Nazi. I'd be shocked if you could find the United States on a globe.



I got another history lesson for you skippy. The constitution doesn't say anything about men and women getting married either. In fact it doesn't mention marriage at all. Have you ever read the US Constitution? Or attended an actual school?

Mother Iran is calling you. You would love it. They kill people for being gay there. You could explain to them how they got the theocracy model of government and the religious intolerance right but they are just using the wrong religion. Of course they would kill you for saying it. But it would be a great lesson to you about how great it is to live in a country like the US where your rights aren't subject to the whim or religious beliefs of the masses.

Here you go WmHunter maybe this will help you keep your foot out of your mouth.

The Constitution for Dummies

I'll side with the founding fathers and some of the great minds of our past on the issue of liberty. They spoke of it often because they knew it was in just as much danger from within as it was from abroad.

Y'all ever thought about getting a fresh horse to beat the hell out of?

Wrong. First, I'll give you a Hint: A piece of paper doesn't grant rights that come from GOD. The Constitution doesn't grant or reserve any rights. It places the boundary on Government and how it is to be set up. The Bill of Rights set further restrictions on government power by specifically stating the limits on power.

Second, I force my opinion on gun rights down the throats of gun grabbers. Gun rights advocates are falling in numbers and are starting to get overtaken by people who want to limit access to certain types of guns. If gun grabbers get in charge, do you want them ignoring Liberty and discriminating again you?

You must be careful with Liberty. It is very delicate. If you trim a branch from the tree for one group, you teach others how to use the saw. One day a limb you hold.dear might get trimmed with the saw you own. It is Liberty for ALL, not only for those who want to define what it should look like.

Exactly. There is no right in the Constitution that grants the right to stupidity, but some continue to exercise that right anyway.