I take no offense Hogwild, to you or anything said for or against here, you are entitled to your opinion. That is what makes our country great. This whole thing from the start has been a technicality. I contend I was walking back to my truck as I swore in court. Chris says I was hunting. There have been very few of these tried as standalone charges. They are usually coupled with hunting at night or some other illegal activity. It is extremely difficult to find case precedence because very little exist. This year state legislators raised the fine by a factor of 4. You will see a lot of these in the future unless some clarification is provided. I wish our system was simple enough to go into court and state what happened and the officer do the same and get a fair ruling. Apparently it quit working that way long ago in our judicial system. Now it is based on precedence, rules, interpretation of law, and technicalities. My whole family is attorneys in Talladega and Tuscaloosa. Out of 7 siblings two of us are not attorneys. My first cousin is an attorney that all of you probably know. I live full time on a sailboat in Mobile. Throughout the year I deal a lot with Coast Guard, DCNR and Marine Police. From a lifetime of this my only charge of a violation was this one. Not so much as an expired flare or life jacket problem. Common sense would make most wonder why someone that has dealt with these people and respected the law his whole life suddenly went rogue.
As well, after this appeal I will have spent over twice what the fine would have been. Why would I do that to just weasel out? I paid the ticket as soon as the judge ruled and then I appealed. I just do not think it is right in any way the way I was treated for walking down a railroad. I do not feel those who wrote the law ever intended for how it is being used by LEO’s. It all tends to come around, next time it may well be someone you know arguing a charge and not just some stranger it happened to. I by myself do not have the power to change the law or how our judicial system works. All I can do is to continue to fight as long as I can and as hard as I can for what I believe, and god will decide the rest.



In reality this thread has probably done more to bring attention to our rights and regulations as hunters than many documents produced in Alabama this year. I think everyone here has made valid points, even Patriot. And heaven knows I have never known an OS to be right on anything.

Don't know what kind of GW Chris is, but he's a fine person. He and my wife are 1st cousins.

To bill,
"I am not young enough to know everything."
I pick at my veteran brethren, because we always have and I would hope they know I mean no true disrespect.

To 49er, I was arguing with you because you are apparently intelligent and it is fun to argue with you.

30+ years ago I was standing on a sidewalk with a shipmate in Oceanside CA. We (my buddy and I)had been unaware of the curfew that had been imposed in Oceanside and the popo had applied their bracelets to us(the drunken sailors), liberally and with gusto. After a short exchange of words one popo told me told shut up or he would bust my a**. I told him that I was in handcuffs and he could not do that and he could kiss my a**. Apparently I was wrong and when I opened my eyes I had bleeding lips a loose tooth and a knot on the back of my head from contact wih a brick wall. Now this must have satisfied the requirement for judicial punishment in Oceanside CA because after an apology from my buddy and (not a peep from me) the popo took us to the city limits and released us.
Over the years I have gleaned a lot of different thoughts and insight from that incident but one relation I point to here is that it is no defense that I did not know about the curfew. Another relation is that I could have suffered more than I did and I took my lumps and left. Another relation is that GWs in Alabama are a whole lot nicer than Oceanside popo.
I would not presume to say that I have all the answers, this is just food for thought.

To Bucky,
I would appeal for my hunting rights also.

I can't speak for Bucky, but if it were me, I would appreciate the on site ass whippin in lieu of the $1,800 court cost and loss of hunting rights.

No kidding.
I dont have $1800 to toss down. Experience has taught me that my skin grows back quicker than my bank account.

No offense to the vet, but this thread is more worn out than the Cam Newton story.

If you'd said you did NOT have the gun loaded at all, I would have been on your side. Ammo in the mag tilts the decision, barely, in the GW's view. It's a good lesson for those of us that may travel on public or private land to get to our permit property.

I can understand the GW's view. If you'd seen a shooter buck, you could have cambered a round and fired.

I feel your pain. It hurts worse if you KNOW you're innocent and would not have fired your weapon illegally.

Others take note and don't even have a round in your magazine!

Thanks for sharing.

If that is the definition of hunting, it should be written in the law.
Now, I'm not sure exactly how I would define hunting, if anyone cared to ask me, but I have a constitutional right to carry a loaded gun.

you could have a gun near a liquor store, does that mean you could have robbed it or you could have been talking to a pretty girl does that mean you could have raped her?

Outback hit the nail on the head. What overt act, if any, does someone have to commit to be hunting? If someone is walking through the woods wearing camo and an orange hat with a loaded gun is he hunting? What if he is sitting in your treestand on your property with an unloaded gun but a pocket full of shells, is he hunting?

What if he's sitting in his stand on his lease (or prop), wearing camo and an orange hat and its 0330hrs and his weapon is loaded...is he hunting?

What if I am walking around showing my out of town daughter my food plots, in street clothes and deck shoes at noon on my own property carrying my rifle(pigs, coyotes, feral dogs and low income appartments on my east line). Am I hunting? According to the POS in green I am to the tune of about $1000.If he found me actually hunting I would have considered him doing his job but he knew I was not hunting. I ever find his 4 wheeler unattended again and he will have a walk.

So, you're threatening to destroy state property should you find a GW's vehicle or ATV unattended?

he's a REAL bad boy Clem.......

BillyBadBradB ....just what was the $1000 fine for????

Don't just rage against my examples. They were just that, examples. I'm looking for an answer to the question.

What overt act do you think someone should have to commit before they are considered hunting? Everybody seems to have plenty of examples of what hunting IS NOT, somebody step up and define what hunting IS. Ya'll know there are a bunch of GWs that look at this site. Help 'em out and let them know what they should be looking for to identify someone who is hunting.

The law is being misinterpreted by Leo’s and individuals charged as a result. All you have to do to understand the intent is read Alabama Attorney General Opinion 84-00123 which clearly states both the interpretation and intent of the law. The way some of the Leo’s are applying it is ludicrous. Does anyone here want to try and convince me that it is ok to hunt within 50 yards of an elementary school with children on the playground, or up against a shopping mall, or sporting event but that you shouldn’t walk down a road or railroad carrying a rifle? If it was the intent, then we have fools in our judicial system.
Drive down I-65 Northbound when you pass MM 130 start looking on your right all the way to the rest stop there are numerous stands within 50 yards of the interstate. It is legal under the definition of the law, because they own the land. The law was established to prevent the poaching of deer from roads, railroads and right of way. It had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with safety. Modern rewrites or republications say to “address safety concerns” because someone is either to stupid or lazy to do their research. Go back and look at the history of 9-11-257.
Someday, there is a probability that someone you know will be charged for something outside the law. Maybe your daughter at prom charged with drugs or paraphernalia because an officer found drugs in her car that her friend dropped during a routine traffic stop. Maybe it will be your son coming out of a bar with keys in hand planning to hand them to a friend to drive, getting charged with a DUI because the officer felt he was going to drive. Or maybe one of your parents fighting to survive on life support, and by some vague misconstrued law a judge allows the insurance company to stop paying. I spent money that I had saved for my grandchildren’s education appealing this because I feel it is that important. Your turn will come.

hey good luck to you bucky. I feel your pain.

Clem, I would never threaten to destroy state property on a public forum, I was just wishing out loud that some kind of Karma might bite him in the rear. Fred, the fine was for non-resident hunting w/o a license on my own property. My complaint was he knew I was not hunting.If he had caught me up a tree actually hunting I would have had no problem with him, just as I would have no problem with a State Trooper who stopped me running 85 down the Interstate. If ya can't do the time don't do the crime.

I found the following case from Arkansas while browsing around on gun rights websites that might interest some of you on the subject of loaded firearms being considered prima facie evidence of hunting:



Arkansas v Murders



I didn't find any case law for 9-11-257 in Alabama, but our courts take notice of how other states rule on similar laws to ours. The opinion makes some good points about overbroad statutes being unconstitutional when they interfere with the free exercise of constitutional rights just to make law enforcement easier. We've got a few other rules in our Regulation Book that could use some attention.

One question here for me. What does the gun being loaded have anything to do with the actual act of hunting? If I hunt the left side of the track from daylight to 9am, get down, approach the track, unload my gun or not, walk down and across the track and get into another stand from 9:30am till dark. For that period of time, am I technically "on break" from hunting or am I still considered hunting even though I am just changing locations? So if I my gun is still loaded and I tell the GW I am just moving locations, do I still get a ticket even though I know I'm just changing locations?