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Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Tru-Talker] #111793
03/26/11 04:18 PM
03/26/11 04:18 PM
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You may, or you may not, depending on the game warden who sees you.

That is the problem. People are not supposed to be at the mercy of an officer's interpretation of the law. The law is required to give men of average intelligence clear notice of what is required of them.

The opinon of the Arkansas Supreme Court that I posted above indicates that the possession of a loaded firearm is a protected right that cannot be infringed by an agency's interpretation of hunting by itself and with no other proof. There must be additional evidence to support a conviction of hunting from a public road or railroad. I believe Alabama's courts would agree.

Until hunters are willing to fight these cases thru the courts to protect their right to bear arms, that right will continue to be challenged by a few game wardens who do not defend our constitutions as they vowed to do. The mere fact that someone got a ticket and "had" to pay it doesn't prove there was a valid case against them.

If you aren't willing to fight for your rights, then unload your gun before you approach a road or railroad to appease the game warden. It is much easier and convienient to give in than it is to fight.

This is no longer about safe hunting practices, as you will see below. Here's how your right to hunt is affected in different situations the way I read it:

- landowners, handgun hunters, small game hunters and bow hunters can hunt right up to the right of way except on WMAs. Duly authorized law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty or persons otherwise authorized by law can shoot or hunt from or across the road itself.

- non-owners of the land can hunt using some guns and some ammunition right up to the right of way of the road or railroad. Otherwise, they must be 50 yds from it except on WMAs

- on WMAs it is unlawful to hunt within 100 yards of any paved
public road or highway, or from within the right-of-way of any
developed U.S. Forest Service road (paved or unpaved) which is
open for vehicular traffic (this is due to a WMA rule, not 9-11-257)

If you are not on privately owned land or on a WMA, there may be other rules that I have not listed. It's up to you to know about them.

That's pretty simple, ain't it?

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #111801
03/26/11 04:42 PM
03/26/11 04:42 PM
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If you only knew.....
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If you only knew.....
I agree. That's why this whole situation is so in doubt. It is the ole glass half empty.... half full dilemma. As long as there is room for judgement in cases like this, it will always be a flip of the coin, what side of the bed did I wake up on this morning, or I haven't wrote a ticket in a while, I guess today is the day to be knit picky!! Is the right to bear arms or is it the right to somewhat bear arms. So I guess in this situation, according to this GW he was going to get a ticket if he was in a tuxedo carrying a slingshot!!


Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves...

Confucius
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #111804
03/26/11 04:56 PM
03/26/11 04:56 PM
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On the flip side of this coin.....

Let's say someone is spotlighting on your property at night with a loaded gun.

Are they hunting at night?

Or,

Are they just looking around and happen to be trespassing?

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #111809
03/26/11 05:08 PM
03/26/11 05:08 PM
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If you only knew.....
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If you only knew.....
They might be lost...lol and aren't up to speed with gps technology.


Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves...

Confucius
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Tru-Talker] #111834
03/26/11 06:17 PM
03/26/11 06:17 PM
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cantonment florida
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I may see it different than a lot of other folks see it. The way I see it is that I'm not going to leave it up to the LEO. If I'm not hunting and I'm walking down the track I'm going to unload the damned gun. Simple as that!

I'll catch up with yall tomorrow. It's my bed time.


"I'm just an old chunk of coal but I'm gonna be a diamond some day."
Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Hogwild] #111927
03/26/11 09:58 PM
03/26/11 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Hogwild
On the flip side of this coin.....

Let's say someone is spotlighting on your property at night with a loaded gun.

Are they hunting at night?

Or,

Are they just looking around and happen to be trespassing?


That's a pretty big stretch there.

You don't have a constitutional right to shine a light on other people's property and you don't have a right to trespass. Both can be illegal under the right circumstances.

Possession of a loaded firearm while committing those acts is only additional evidence that can be used in determining whether a crime has been committed. Are they checking power lines for an outage, fixing to commit a burglary of your home, are they night hunting, are they just turning around in the road ... you name it.

The mere possession of a loaded firearm does not define illegal hunting. That's the point you are missing. Sarah Brady don't get it either.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #112004
03/27/11 07:44 AM
03/27/11 07:44 AM
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Another case of, "I want it my way, and I want it now!"

LOL

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #112018
03/27/11 08:06 AM
03/27/11 08:06 AM
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How much more evidence do you require than walking slowly, looking around watching the woods and toting a loaded gun to define 'hunting'??

Take that same person and put them on YOUR hunting club, lease or private property and THEN tell me what they are/were doing.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Hogwild] #112042
03/27/11 08:55 AM
03/27/11 08:55 AM
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Hogwild,

You're talking about a misdemeanor offense taking precedence over the constitutional right to bear arms for defense of oneself. You take that lightly, I don't.

Criminal laws require strict interpretation in favor of the accused. That comes from our courts, not just me wanting it my way.

Game wardens take an oath to defend our constitutions. Perjury involved in an official proceding is a class C felony whether it's prosecuted or not. It is not taken lightly in the law. Game wardens should always be aware of the oath they took to defend our constitutions.

Here's you something to read that don't have anything to do with what I say and wanting to have it my way:

Quote:
A basic rule of review in criminal cases is that criminal statutes are to be strictly construed in favor of those persons sought to be subjected to their operation, i.e., defendants. Schenher v. State, 38 Ala. App. 573, 90 So.2d 234, cert. denied, 265 Ala. 700, 90 So.2d 238 (1956).

Penal statutes are to reach no further in meaning than their words. Fuller v. State, 257 Ala. 502, 60 So.2d 202 (1952).

One who commits an act which does not come within the words of a criminal statute, according to the general and popular understanding of those words, when they are not used technically, is not to be punished thereunder, merely because the act may contravene the policy of the statute. Fuller v. State, supra, citing Young's Case, 58 Ala. 358 (1877).

No person is to be made subject to penal statutes by implication and all doubts concerning their interpretation are to predominate in favor of the accused. Fuller v. State, supra.


A statute defining a crime must be strictly construed and "one cannot commit an offense under a statute except in the circumstances it specifies." Peinhardt v. State, 161 Ala. 70, 49 So. 831, 832 (1909), overruled on other grounds, Williams v. State, 177 Ala. 34, 58 So. 921, 923 (1912). The rules of statutory construction which this Court must follow were succinctly set out in Clements v. State, 370 So.2d 723, 725 (Ala. 1979), overruled on other grounds, Beck v. State, 396 So.2d 645 (Ala. 1980):


In Sheffield v. State, 708 So.2d 899 (Ala. Cr. App. 1997), this court addressed the implications of § 13A-1-6, Code of Alabama 1975, as that section pertains to the construction of criminal statutes:

"The focus in § 13A-1-6 on the 'fair import of [a penal statute's] terms' is the legislature's manifestation of its 'preference for the meaning of the statute over legislative intent as a criterion of interpretation.' 2A N. Singer, Sutherland Statutory Construction § 45.07 (5th ed. 1992). 'The reference to a "meaning of the statute" which is juxtaposed with and therefore distinct from legislative "intention," expresses concern for giving effect to the way in which the statute is understood by others than the members of the legislature itself.' Id. 'Inquiry begins not with conjecture about what [the legislature] would have liked to have said when it wrote the statute or with what [the legislature] would say today given the chance, but rather what [the legislature] indeed expressed in the statutory context.' Id."

708 So.2d at 905 (emphasis supplied).


The subject is violation of 9-11-257, not trespassing or hunting without permission.

Now, here's you LOL since you seem to think it adds substance to an opinion.



Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #112050
03/27/11 09:12 AM
03/27/11 09:12 AM
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The LAUGHING OUT LOUD is at you.

I would be willing to make a wager that if you found ol' Bucky wandering around on your hunting lease with a loaded gun, dressed in hunting gear and creeping along looking through the woods that you would want him charged with HUNTING without a permit....not simple trespass.

That is as basic as this situation is.
You are constantly trying to over-complicate it!

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Hogwild] #112052
03/27/11 09:16 AM
03/27/11 09:16 AM
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Quote:
That is as basic as this situation is.
You are constantly trying to over-complicate it!


Then let's not overcomplicate it.

He was walking back to his truck by way of a railroad with an unloaded chamber in his rifle and scope covers on his scope lenses.

That is as basic as this situation is.

LOL

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #112066
03/27/11 09:48 AM
03/27/11 09:48 AM
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OK...now we are getting somewhere!

Walking down the RR tracks IS against the Law.

Cartridges in the clip/magazine of the gun define it as 'loaded'.

Many scope covers are 'see-thru' and their use does not render the gun inoperable.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Hogwild] #112073
03/27/11 10:01 AM
03/27/11 10:01 AM
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Let's keep it simple like you said.

The law that was cited is 9-11-257.

What part of 9-11-257 makes it illegal to walk down a railroad track?

What part of 9-11-257 makes it illegal to walk down a railroad track, even with a loaded gun?

What part of 9-11-257 defines clips in an attached mazagine as a "loaded gun"?

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #112074
03/27/11 10:03 AM
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What part of the scope covers being on is involved in the same?

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Hogwild] #112076
03/27/11 10:05 AM
03/27/11 10:05 AM
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Scope covers indicate that the scope was not in use for hunting. That's evidence in favor of the accused.

He still had a right to have them open for use in his defense, but he didn't.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #112078
03/27/11 10:08 AM
03/27/11 10:08 AM
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The very fact that you try that defense is ironic, at the least!

You don't feel that a loaded gun means you are hunting.....but, you feel that the presence of scope covers means that you are NOT hunting.

Yep, a good LOL is about all this is worth.

Carry on! smile

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Hogwild] #112080
03/27/11 10:09 AM
03/27/11 10:09 AM
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You sound like Sarah Brady and her followers.

LOL Carry on.

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #112083
03/27/11 10:14 AM
03/27/11 10:14 AM
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The same comparison between yourself and Randall Weaver could be made.

You got your cabin ready?

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Hogwild] #112103
03/27/11 10:49 AM
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No.

I'd rather fight my battles in court so we all win... like the Arkansas hunters I was talking about above:

Quote:
An overbroad statute is one that is designed to punish conduct which the state may rightfully punish, but which includes within its sweep constitutionally protected conduct. &#8194;McDougal v. State, 324 Ark. 354, 359-360, 922 S.W.2d 323 (1996), citing 4 R. Rotunda & J. Novak, Treatise on Constitutional Law, §&#8194;20.8 (2d ed. 1992). &#8194; The Commission's rule, as amended, essentially shifts the burden to non-hunters who possess loaded or uncased firearms on city, county, state, or federally maintained roads or rights-of-way, to prove that he or she is not engaged in the prohibited act of road hunting. &#8194; When examining amended rule 18.04, we conclude that it may include within its sweep innocent and legitimate conduct. &#8194; For example, it is an affirmative defense to the charge of carrying a weapon that the person charged was carrying the weapon upon a journey. &#8194; See Ark.Code Ann. §&#8194;5-73-120(c)(4) (Supp.1995). &#8194; The amended rule is thus overbroad, and exceeds the Commission's authority granted under Amendment 35 to regulate the manner of taking game.


Quote:
The appellees maintain, and the trial court agreed, that amended code 18.04 is unconstitutionally overbroad because its wording is so inclusive that it may affect the rights of non-hunters&#8201;1 who possess loaded or uncased firearms on city, county, state, or federally-maintained roads or rights-of-way. &#8194; In turn, the Commission urges that amended code 18.04 bears a rational relationship to the legitimate objective of suppressing illegal road hunting, an activity which, pursuant to Amendment 35 of the Arkansas Constitution, the Commission has the authority to regulate. &#8194; According to the Commission, the fact that some persons who have no intention of hunting may travel the highways during deer season with loaded or uncased firearms does not undermine the rule's legitimate sweep.

&#8195;We agree that the Commission, under Amendment 35, has plenary authority over the “control, management, restoration, conservation and regulation of birds, fish, game and wildlife resources of the State.” &#8194; Section 8 of Amendment 35 also grants the Commission “the exclusive power and authority to regulate the manner of taking game, to regulate seasons, and to fix penalties for violation of the regulations.” &#8194; However, while we have said that t he Commission has broad discretion in carrying out its powers, see Chaffin v. Ark. Game & Fish Comm'n, 296 Ark. 431, 757 S.W.2d 950 (1988), its discretion is not unfettered. &#8194; The Commission's power to regulate the manner of taking game certainly does not translate into a general power to regulate the general possession of all firearms on city, county, state, or federally maintained roads or rights-of-way.


Arkansas v Murders

Re: Charged with 9-11-257 on Perdido River WMA [Re: Bucky205] #112143
03/27/11 12:43 PM
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You still have situational ethics.

IF Bucky had been 'strolling' through your property in the same manner he was exhibiting on the tracks; you'd want him ticketed for HWOP.

Everything else is BS.

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