Well, TDD, we helped revive a thread that seemed to be dying down.

Been a long day and I'm too tired to answer everything you said, but I'll try on a few issues:

You said:

>>>I ask you this PCP... Do you not agree there is less habitat for turkeys in Alabama now, than say 20 years ago? <<<

I don't travel the whole state and don't think I'm really qualified to answer, but I doubt it. People have been moaning all my life about how timber practices would destroy turkey hunting. I moved to Wilcox County in 1970 and every turkey hunter I met was furious with MacMillan-Bloedel because of all the clearcutting they were doing. The common theme was that turkey hunting would soon be ruined. I thought it too.

Well, it wasn't. Some areas are now growing their third loblolly forest and the turkeys are still there. I also see a lot more areas being converted to longleaf and managed on a much longer rotation, which is good for turkeys. My main forest is 35 years old, and I haven't cut it mainly because I want to keep it good turkey habitat. I believe there are more people like me than ever, and one of the reasons we are willing to do it is because of the generous limit. Take away that limit, and many people might not be willing to manage that way. Charles Kelley often stated this was their reasoning for generous limits for deer and turkey - give the landowner the right to manage their resources and he believed they would do a good job of it. States that took a more socialistic view were way behind us in getting huntable populations.

>>>I try to look at the big picture. More hunters + more predators - habitat = declining turkey population.<<<

If that is true, then by far the most effective way to reduce the harvest in those areas is to shorten the season. Limiting what hunters can do in an area with a thriving population because the population is down in an area hundreds of miles away doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I'm thankful the AL DCNR already realizes this and does manage different populations by season length. I hope they will continue this practice and not punish hunters in other areas with good populations.

>>>To address your next point, you say there is no need to limit gobbler harvest unless there is a shortage or gobblers. Enough so that there are not enough gobblers to breed all of the hens.
Well to that i say this. With no data on that being collected, how do you know that is not the case already? How do you know all of the hens are being bred?<<<<

I said that no place that I had ever hunted had a population get so low that the gobblers couldn't breed the hens. That's because I have always seen or heard gobblers right to the end of the season. You can be sure that if I heard them, then any hen that still needed to be bred would hear them too. There are plenty of studies that show it doesn't take many gobblers to breed all the hens in a population. Gobbler posted in this forum about a researcher that documented a single gobbler that bred 25 hens in a single day, and hens have to bred only once. But once again, if this is a problem somewhere, then shorten the season in that area. That's the sure way to limit the harvest.

>>>What you say is somewhat true. I do think 3 is fair. And a need or want for anything more than that just boils down to hunters being greedy<<<<

I think this is the real reason that some are proposing a lower limit. Its all about a personal feeling that nobody should be allowed to kill over a certain number they have in their mind, and its easy to demonize those who would as being "greedy."

I'm as capable of anyone of falling to greed, but I really don't see myself as being greedy if I kill 5 AL Spring gobblers. That's been the limit all my hunting life and the AL turkey population has thrived with that limit. I sure can't see any evidence that its damaged the population.

I spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours every year working to improve the turkey habitat on my farm. I'm confident I produce a lot more than 5 turkeys every year, and others are able to also benefit from my work, and I'm happy for them. How can you arrive at a figure of 3 being ok and 5 is "greedy?" I just can't see your logic in that.

I usually shoot one deer a year; that's all we need to eat. I also kill a few doves and a few squirrels, and try my best to kill my limit of gobblers. We eat what I shoot, and that's all I take from the land. From your posts, I'd think you likely take a lot more game from the land than I do. How many ducks do you have to kill in a season to reach the point of greed? Are turkeys somehow different? Maybe I am greedy, but I just can't see it that way.

But greed is definitely a bad thing; I'll sure agree on that.

So is jealousy. Maybe that's for another post.

I suspect the limit argument is a moot point for me. I struggled to get a limit last season and don't know if I will ever be in good enough health to do it again. But I really do believe that the AL system of turkey management is the best in the nation, and I'd hate to see it destroyed because of politics.

A good evening to all!