That last part was for you PCP. I still have a couple hen indulgences that you granted me....

elkhunter well put and I agree with every thing you said,

just a idea here on predators
maybe the clubs should think about raising their fees a little,
clubs pull to gather add that money to the pot
hire a few professional trappers to trap after hunting season
maybe the state could let traps and snares with deer stops be used when there is less chance for dogs to get caught
maybe the state could raise the lie fees a tad and chip that in or pay a bounty on predators like yotes

I know for a fact predators do a lot of damage to our game, I saw a huge difference in turkeys when I trapped hollins, when I trapped hollins by the second year you saw huge flocks of turkeys and I mean every day. since I left hollins I see very few. some times I might see some once a month if I am lucky while I am getting pine straw

but your right a combination of dropping the limit and controlling the predators is some thing that would work

The state is not going to offer a bounty on predators. We can't.

But predators are probably a contributor in some places. We have far fewer trappers now than we used to have, even on the recreational level. Folks just aren't trapping.

So are you the "hard core turkey killer" or "veteren wildlife biologist"? Just making sure I have my facts straight.

I don't think the bounty is going to happen. Clubs are going to have to step up and do something. Yes, it will cost more time and money. But, it will show results. Sitting around and doing nothing dang sure won't.

I just got a text/picture from a client where he caught 22 hogs last night in a single trap.

Traps cost money, but they are the most effective approach and they last. The initial investment might hurt but it will pay off in the long run.

I am a hard core turkey killer. Somebody like you puts one in front of me and I can kill it.

Neither, he plays at both J/K of course.

Matt I knew the state could not pay the bounty

what about the part about snares with deer stops used as a tool.
is there any way we can get the law changed so they can be used even with restrictions , as elkhunter again said he beleaves only trapping will help with the problem with predators, and he is right traps are not cheap by almeans but with a simple snare with deer stops which will not harm a dog or deer, but will basicly hold the yote till the trapper gets there under the 24 hour check.you can get 200 snares with deer stops for the price of a dz yote traps that a long would make it profitable for both the clubs and the trappers,

I agree there is less and less trappers every year, the reason why is our fur has little money value, not worth the cost to spend 200 bucks a dz for a proper trap, by the time you add in fuel, and other supplys a beginner will be right at 2 grand just to start out.just not worth it for a five buck yote and beaver that keeps trappers out of the picture but snares all you need is your snares and fuel and your back up running.

I am not trying to push any thing here, just trying to help with a solution to a problem

Ok.Im bored with this discussion

team your not bored lol

Nice pics!! Very cool to be able to approach a wild hen - she shouldn't try that with many other critters!! Also I love your hair

First, I thought we had 500,000 turkeys in Alabama... could be wrong. If so these numbers roughly double! Assume (rough guesses) 200,000 hens in the State lay 180,000 nests. Only 90,000 of these nests make it to hatch (raccoons, opossum, etc get the rest). Out of the 90,000 nests that hatch (12 poults per nest) result in 1,080,000 hatched poults. Of these, roughly 50% make it to 2 weeks (540,000) and roughly half of those make it to the fall (270,000). Since predators cost the State roughly 1,890,000 potential fall turkeys, I think our efforts would be more sensibly spent focused on other issues than a gobbler limit and unfertilized eggs!

Alabama hunters only cost the State 60,000 gobblers, racoons cost nearly 2 million... hmmm lets see... what should we focus on... hard to decide reducing the limit to 3 would save 24,000 if all regulations were followed and the 60,000 was make up of limits, its not and it wont. It might save 5,000 birds but piss off a lot of hunters.

http://www.nwtf.org/NAWTMP/downloads/Literature/Impacts_Predation_Wild_Turkeys.pdf

This subject has been studied to death, even in Alabama. Google it. This is one of the papers, look at the literature cited. Also look for Speake here in Alabama. No question that predator control will help a turkey population. Lots of questions if a reduction in gobbler bag limits will. In fact, I believe that the limit was 6 a few years back, why hasn't the population increased when we reduced the limit by 17%? Hmmm.



Again, simply explain to me the biology of how reducing the spring gobbler limit will help turkeys rebound in just a few years. Where is this mythical place where gobblers are over-harvested and such a reduced portion of the population. Low populations are one thing but a shortage of gobblers is entirely another.

gobbler can not and will not speak for elkhunter but the way I take it by controlling predators and cutting back the limit .by doing both your giving the turkeys a faster come back, now I don't beleave every county should be cut down to three ,just the ones that needs it,predators has been out of control for a long time , if these predators was kelp in check there would not have to be a harvest cut in birds.

as a example hire one worker, takes a little longer for the job to get done, hire two workers , the job gets done even quicker
unless one is lazy then your just pissing in the wind.

I beleave you do one and not the other you will be pissing in the wind. sure you could do it with just removing predators but that would take longer to fix the problem, truth is there is no quick fix

Yea, now that I got u off the hook!

William, not being rude but that was the vaguest non answer I have heard. You aren't a politician are u?

heck no lol .. your not rude that's why I respect you

Damn right me too

I went to a meeting a couple of weeks ago sponsored by DCNR. The bottom line is that they need credible data. Every one of us can guess, cuss, and discuss ideas. But, good data eliminates the guessers. I say let's move the limit to 10 gobblers per year. I say let's move the limit to 2 gobblers per year. What number can the population support? Without data, you might as well pull the number out of a hat. The meeting solicited hunter satisfaction data input and asked us to use the voluntary hunter harvest report. A few more were asked to provide daily observation data. Bottom line is that every one of us on this thread can provide harvest info using the call in line or internet.

Data, good data is needed to make decisions on where we need to get to in the future.

Hal, I just can't see how you could have the heart to use them, knowing that the turkey population is doomed the way it is.

But once again, if there are hens not being bred in the areas I hunt, its because they don't wanta be bred; not because there are no gobblers around. That may not be true in Utah, but it is on my place.

You gave it a good try, gobbler. Biology has no chance vs. hunter satisfaction. Some folks ain't gonna be satisfied as long as you are able to kill turkeys and they can't.

Matt, so you are on the committee! So why can't then number of limits killed per season be released to the public? I believe that info would likely show how meaningless a limit reduction would actually be. It would increase my hunter satisfaction if y'all would tell us that.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

It's hard to get somebody to believe something when they've seen otherwise. It's hard to release kill limits to the public when they don't have the accurate data.