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Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1326796
04/14/15 07:51 AM
04/14/15 07:51 AM
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Lincoln, Alabama
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blumsden Offline
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By all means carry on.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: blumsden] #1326815
04/14/15 08:03 AM
04/14/15 08:03 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: blumsden
By all means carry on.


What's the status of your plot now? Has it went to seed and started drying down yet?


We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1326852
04/14/15 08:24 AM
04/14/15 08:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,784
Tuscaloosa Co.
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N2TRKYS Offline
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Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
How much fertilizer do you apply in the Spring and Fall?


I apply Ca, P, & K just according to what the soil tests show. I apply N a couple weeks after a crop comes up or by visually reading the field to tell me it needs N. With all of the biomass I have on the surface, I probably should have applied some N earlier this spring. I wish I was closer to a chicken industry so I could get some litter to spread on the field.



How much does your soil test call for per acre?


I haven't gotten a soil test done yet this spring. I'll probably send one in sometimes in the next 2-3 weeks. I'm curious to see how well my K is still holding and if my pH has come on up into the 6's.


What did you plant to make your ph increase?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1326858
04/14/15 08:29 AM
04/14/15 08:29 AM
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Bremen
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RiverWood Offline
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Yes dumbsden. Please jump to the appropriate thread and explain the benefits of mow & throw over drilling

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1326862
04/14/15 08:31 AM
04/14/15 08:31 AM
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Lincoln, Alabama
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blumsden Offline
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Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: blumsden
By all means carry on.


What's the status of your plot now? Has it went to seed and started drying down yet?

All of my cereal rye and clovers have went to seed, the rye is about 4' tall, but has not started drying out yet. With all this rain, its going to cause some compaction issues, if people get on the plots too quick. I may spray mine next week and let it be drying down some. Killed all the turkeys, i'm going to kill on my land for the year, so it won't mess me up.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: N2TRKYS] #1326886
04/14/15 09:02 AM
04/14/15 09:02 AM
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Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS


What did you plant to make your ph increase?


I had lime spread at this time last year. There is still lime easily found in the topsoil today. The year I ceased tillage, my soil pH was down to 5.1…The first year I planted this field as a foodplot, which was a few years prior to that….it had sit fallow in weeds and grass for a number of years and the pH was 6.8. After several years of heavy tillage I had burnt up all of the organic matter in my soil. Therefore its nutrient holding capacity was severely decreased since all I had to fall back on without organic matter was mostly sand (very little clay content). There was nothing left to hold onto the 1200 lbs/ac of Ca that the field was originally holding. The Ca dropped from 1200 lbs/ac down to 300 lbs/ac…..so there was nothing to buffer the pH anymore.

I didn’t spread any lime the first year I went throw and mow. I grew mostly cereal rye and crabgrass which both do well in low pH conditions. Once I had a decent layer of OM back on the surface then I brought in the lime truck last year to replace all of that Ca that I had lost. Things looked a lot better on the fall test last year after the lime had a few months to work. I don’t recall the exact lbs/ac but I believe it was back up to around 1,000 lbs/ac of Ca and the pH was up to 5.8….Like I was saying though, there is still lime easily found in the topsoil that hasn’t been broken down yet so I’m expecting that the pH is still going to rise more than what the last test showed.

The really exciting thing now though is that I have actually built my organic matter up to a higher % than what I was working with even in the very beginning. I have a higher CEC value now than when the field was just sitting fallow before I owned it. My CEC was originally 4.1 then it fell to a low of 2.0….and now its up to 5.9… That means I can hold/deliver more nutrients and water…….and I’m still building more OM every year. I’ve brought my OM% up from less than 1%….to 3.4%. I would think that over time the trend upward on the graph won’t be as steep and it will flatten out.

Last edited by CNC; 04/14/15 09:10 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: blumsden] #1326889
04/14/15 09:06 AM
04/14/15 09:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,303
Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: blumsden
Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: blumsden
By all means carry on.


What's the status of your plot now? Has it went to seed and started drying down yet?

All of my cereal rye and clovers have went to seed, the rye is about 4' tall, but has not started drying out yet. With all this rain, its going to cause some compaction issues, if people get on the plots too quick. I may spray mine next week and let it be drying down some. Killed all the turkeys, i'm going to kill on my land for the year, so it won't mess me up.


Cool!........ smile


We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1326931
04/14/15 09:39 AM
04/14/15 09:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 917
montgomery,al
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DMC Offline
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I talked with CNC a year or so ago and got some advice on his methods. Convincing my dad that a disc wasnt necessary has been hard. The compromise was that a few of my fields were zero discing. Some of the fields were planted traditionally with discing the heck out of them. Some were kind of a hybrid between the two. The finished product from all 3 have been very similar. If anything we had better luck establishing the throw and mow at first. We planted and got very little rain if any for the first several weeks. The throw and mow held its own moisture better and got a head start.

Again we saw really no difference in the final product. Deer and turkeys keep them all mowed down regardless of how it was planted. You can tell a difference walking through them though. The traditional fields are much harder and uneven. The surface also dries out much quicker.

After saying all of that, i have no plans of discing again. Just not worth the extra time and effort for a field for a deer or turkey to eat of. Especially if they are going to feed in the field regardless of how i plant it. If i was a farmer i am sure my planting method would be a good bit different from what i would use to plant a food plot.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1326935
04/14/15 09:41 AM
04/14/15 09:41 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,784
Tuscaloosa Co.
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N2TRKYS Offline
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Tuscaloosa Co.
Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS


What did you plant to make your ph increase?


I had lime spread at this time last year. There is still lime easily found in the topsoil today. The year I ceased tillage, my soil pH was down to 5.1…The first year I planted this field as a foodplot, which was a few years prior to that….it had sit fallow in weeds and grass for a number of years and the pH was 6.8. After several years of heavy tillage I had burnt up all of the organic matter in my soil. Therefore its nutrient holding capacity was severely decreased since all I had to fall back on without organic matter was mostly sand (very little clay content). There was nothing left to hold onto the 1200 lbs/ac of Ca that the field was originally holding. The Ca dropped from 1200 lbs/ac down to 300 lbs/ac…..so there was nothing to buffer the pH anymore.

I didn’t spread any lime the first year I went throw and mow. I grew mostly cereal rye and crabgrass which both do well in low pH conditions. Once I had a decent layer of OM back on the surface then I brought in the lime truck last year to replace all of that Ca that I had lost. Things looked a lot better on the fall test last year after the lime had a few months to work. I don’t recall the exact lbs/ac but I believe it was back up to around 1,000 lbs/ac of Ca and the pH was up to 5.8….Like I was saying though, there is still lime easily found in the topsoil that hasn’t been broken down yet so I’m expecting that the pH is still going to rise more than what the last test showed.

The really exciting thing now though is that I have actually built my organic matter up to a higher % than what I was working with even in the very beginning. I have a higher CEC value now than when the field was just sitting fallow before I owned it. My CEC was originally 4.1 then it fell to a low of 2.0….and now its up to 5.9… That means I can hold/deliver more nutrients and water…….and I’m still building more OM every year. I’ve brought my OM% up from less than 1%….to 3.4%. I would think that over time the trend upward on the graph won’t be as steep and it will flatten out.



When are you gonna do your soil test?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: DMC] #1327044
04/14/15 11:33 AM
04/14/15 11:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,303
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,303
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted By: DMC
I talked with CNC a year or so ago and got some advice on his methods. Convincing my dad that a disc wasnt necessary has been hard. The compromise was that a few of my fields were zero discing. Some of the fields were planted traditionally with discing the heck out of them. Some were kind of a hybrid between the two. The finished product from all 3 have been very similar. If anything we had better luck establishing the throw and mow at first. We planted and got very little rain if any for the first several weeks. The throw and mow held its own moisture better and got a head start.

Again we saw really no difference in the final product. Deer and turkeys keep them all mowed down regardless of how it was planted. You can tell a difference walking through them though. The traditional fields are much harder and uneven. The surface also dries out much quicker.

After saying all of that, i have no plans of discing again. Just not worth the extra time and effort for a field for a deer or turkey to eat of. Especially if they are going to feed in the field regardless of how i plant it. If i was a farmer i am sure my planting method would be a good bit different from what i would use to plant a food plot.


That’s awesome man!……The hardest part is behind you now. A year from now I think you’ll really be smiling as your OM builds and conditions continue to improve. Keep us updated. smile


We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: N2TRKYS] #1327045
04/14/15 11:34 AM
04/14/15 11:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,303
Awbarn, AL
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Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted By: N2TRKYS
When are you gonna do your soil test?


Sometimes between now and the end of May. Probably just do it one day when I'm headed that way anyways.


We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1327059
04/14/15 11:50 AM
04/14/15 11:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 917
montgomery,al
D
DMC Offline
6 point
DMC  Offline
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D
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Posts: 917
montgomery,al
Originally Posted By: CNC
Originally Posted By: DMC
I talked with CNC a year or so ago and got some advice on his methods. Convincing my dad that a disc wasnt necessary has been hard. The compromise was that a few of my fields were zero discing. Some of the fields were planted traditionally with discing the heck out of them. Some were kind of a hybrid between the two. The finished product from all 3 have been very similar. If anything we had better luck establishing the throw and mow at first. We planted and got very little rain if any for the first several weeks. The throw and mow held its own moisture better and got a head start.

Again we saw really no difference in the final product. Deer and turkeys keep them all mowed down regardless of how it was planted. You can tell a difference walking through them though. The traditional fields are much harder and uneven. The surface also dries out much quicker.

After saying all of that, i have no plans of discing again. Just not worth the extra time and effort for a field for a deer or turkey to eat of. Especially if they are going to feed in the field regardless of how i plant it. If i was a farmer i am sure my planting method would be a good bit different from what i would use to plant a food plot.


That’s awesome man!……The hardest part is behind you now. A year from now I think you’ll really be smiling as your OM builds and conditions continue to improve. Keep us updated. smile


Yep. i think i may even have him convinced to cut it down to a hybrid between the two styles for his half while i do pure throw n mow on my half. Will be planting buckwheat and sunn hemp this year for the first time in our 2 big fields. Should work well.

Also went no till for my garden this year. Was mainly from laziness/lack of a tiller. Threw a bunch of leaves and clippings in there and let it grow all winter. sprayed it a week ago and stuck seed in the dirt and left all the crap on top of it. If it grows decent i will not be tilling the garden again anytime soon. soil had pretty much no organic material in it. It really needed this.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: DMC] #1327290
04/14/15 02:58 PM
04/14/15 02:58 PM
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Posts: 23,303
Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: DMC
Yep. i think i may even have him convinced to cut it down to a hybrid between the two styles for his half while i do pure throw n mow on my half. Will be planting buckwheat and sunn hemp this year for the first time in our 2 big fields. Should work well.


The biggest thing holding most people back from trying this method is the mental hurdle that must be gotten over first. Once you plant this way a time or two though and see it for your own eyes….then your whole outlook on how you manage food plots will change. I think back now to when I use to spray, mow, disk….disk some more…..drag….broadcast seed….drag again…yadda yadda yadda….and I think....

“What in the hell did I do all of that for?…. loco


Last edited by CNC; 04/14/15 02:59 PM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1327635
04/15/15 01:22 AM
04/15/15 01:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,693
Lincoln, Alabama
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blumsden Offline
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You did it because whoever showed you how to plant stuff, told you thats the way you do it. Thats why people can't wrap their mind around this. "Thats the way we've always done it, and by golly thats the way we'll always do it, come hell or high water." I may wait about spraying some of mine, because i'm planting sunflowers and milo for dove and i don't want to plant it to quick, so i may let mine die on its own.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: blumsden] #1327678
04/15/15 02:30 AM
04/15/15 02:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,303
Awbarn, AL
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Originally Posted By: blumsden
I may wait about spraying some of mine, because i'm planting sunflowers and milo for dove and i don't want to plant it to quick, so i may let mine die on its own.


I like that idea. I would at least wait long enough to give the crimson clover seed time to fully mature. Then, if you have a good stand established, you can just scratch it off of your list of things to buy this fall. Maybe grab a bag of durana or aroowleaf to add to the mix instead. Not spraying and rotating with the natural maturity of the crops will also allow you to avoid spraying, which will allow you to keep growing things like clovers and such non-stop without killing them off. If it eventually gets to where there is just too much clover to establish other things amongst it….which is not really a bad problem to have…..I think a very weak dose of gly at that point would stunt the clover enough to establish an overstory plant like sunn hemp or rye in the fall, while still keeping the clover alive to rebound in the understory. That will probably be a future experiment.

Last edited by CNC; 04/15/15 02:31 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1329901
04/17/15 05:07 AM
04/17/15 05:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,303
Awbarn, AL
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Here is a good video to watch on one of these rainy days like today. that covers many of the very same things you hear me discussing in these threads. I have no idea why it's not starting the video from the beginning. Maybe its just my computer. All you have to do though is slide the meter underneath the video back to the start and you'll be good to go.

Gabe Brown Seminar on Soil Health

Last edited by CNC; 04/17/15 05:08 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1329934
04/17/15 05:42 AM
04/17/15 05:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
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Awbarn, AL
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Joe4majors (or anyone else)…. when he gets to the part about the cows….don’t let that part pass you by because you think “I don’t have cows…this doesn’t apply to me.” Focus on the principles of what’s happening. We can still replicate many of the same things with or without cows. Here’s just one example of how we can tweak these same principles to fit individual needs. You could use an e-fence set-up on your 1 acre field to keep the deer off of it during part of the summer. Then when you take the fence down, your mob grazers will come in just like the cows in the video. Right now my tractor is my cow herd. I don’t get all of the benefits he is showing but I’m still moving in the same direction from the standpoint of soil health.

For someone like Riverwood….this idea of using cattle as a tool opens up all kinds of new options for land management. It also diversifies their portfolio beyond just timber income, etc. Fire is a great tool but it doesn’t bring you $1,000 per head. Mob grazing cattle around a property is also like having a litter truck constantly riding around spreading manure. Why pay to have chicken litter hauled in or synthetic fertilizers spread when all you have to do instead is to take an hour and run another strand of hotwire around the area you want to set back succession and fertilize at the same time.

I've also heard that the turkey's love pecking in the cow patties...... smile

Last edited by CNC; 04/17/15 05:58 AM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1330158
04/17/15 10:25 AM
04/17/15 10:25 AM
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alabama
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Blessed Offline
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Thats very interesting on the Gabe Brown Seminar good educational stuff there .

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1330229
04/17/15 11:29 AM
04/17/15 11:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
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Tuscaloosa Co.
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N2TRKYS Offline
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What's the latest that y'all have planted buckwheat and is it shade tolerant?


83% of all statistics are made up.

Re: Throw n' Mow Tutorial [Re: CNC] #1330277
04/17/15 12:24 PM
04/17/15 12:24 PM
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We've flown in buckwheat nearly til mid August. Don't know about shade but is wet tolerant.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
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