|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Velvet
by Tree Dweller. 09/07/24 01:33 AM
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
122 registered members (BCLC, Okatuppa, BobK, 3bailey3, AU7MM08, Catbird, Jweeks, Lonster, shootnmiss, RSF, specialk, G/H, AKB, straycat, Brian_C, UA Hunter, coldtrail, woodduck, SouthBamaSlayer, robinhedd, HOWTON21, dirtwrk, deadeye48, geeb1, TravisBatey, Frogeye, dtmwtp, jwalker77, Turkeyneck78, !shiloh!, GrandSlam, stuball, DHW, Tupi, having fun now, aucivil, jhardy, Mulcher, T Bone, CNC, billrv, Bake, kaintuck, ImThere, Savage33, bamaeyedoc, Red Fox, Luxfisher, Jotjackson, bug54, BC, 163dm, bambam32, TurkeyJoe, brett.smith, Downwind, Andalusia, MS_Hunter, CatHeadBiscuit, deerman24, CrappieMan, Tailwalk7, gatorbait154, Zbrann, Cactus_buck, RidgeRanger, BamaPlowboy, WhoMe, seadoge8, beetrapper, foldemup, J_K, Morris, bass1090, ronfromramer, Woody1, booner, limabean, dave260rem!, TexasHuntress, aucountry, Joe4majors, Daveleeal, Chancetribe, leroycnbucks, BhamFred, cgardner, MattIce, Young20, 4Him146, PikeRoadHunter, janiemae, biglmbass, hue, outdoorguy88, CCC, Squeaky, leroyb, PapaD, Butchman205, Captain Howdy, jaredhunts, bamaguzzi, metalmuncher, rrice0725, Robert D., Johnal3, MC21, Thread Killer, MikeP, 12 invisible),
523
guests, and 0
spiders. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: JA]
#1332555
04/20/15 04:38 AM
04/20/15 04:38 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,476
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,476
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
|
I know many are suggesting I file a complaint and I have thought about it. However, at the end of the day there is just enough wiggle room and interpretation for it not to go anywhere and the last thing I want is a pissed off game warden who knows right where we hunt.
I've always bent over backwards to be courteous and respectful to any law enforcement officer I encounter. Theirs is a job I appreciate but could never do myself. Wise move, no need to waste your time.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: jmj120]
#1332561
04/20/15 04:43 AM
04/20/15 04:43 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,476
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,476
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
|
Gripe all you want. Whoever gets the complaint will laugh his ass off over it.
A GW is way back in the woods and comes across an ATV with no one around but still has the keys in it. He has no idea if it is stolen or being used by a hunter so he secures the vehicle by taking the keys. Since no one is around to claim the property, it is not an illegal "seizure". Once the owner was found, the keys were returned to him. End of story. It is not illegal to seize lost property. Since there was no owner around, it is lost property until the owner is located.
That is basically how the synopsis of the response to a complaint will read.
Bullcrap. They better never pull that stunt on any land I own. I would have handled it with respect, like the OP did, but I would be on the phone with Bill Fuller or whoever is in charge in Montgomery. Since you quoted my response, I assume you read it because it already told you the reply you would get no matter who you called. The GW did nothing illegal or out of standard LE protocol, so cry all you want, he was just using all the tools available to him to do his job.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: JA]
#1332567
04/20/15 04:51 AM
04/20/15 04:51 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,155
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
bill
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,155
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
|
Jawbone, I see you answered the other two but didn't answer mine. So, it's ok for an officer to confiscate an item on private property and to assume a crime has been committed until proven otherwise?
"Political debate: when charlatans come together to discuss their principles"
-
Bauvard
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: JA]
#1332573
04/20/15 05:02 AM
04/20/15 05:02 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,476
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,476
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
|
Bill,
Since he is investigating "lost property" where a crime may have been committed, it is standard procedure to secure the evidence until questions have been answered. That is what he did. I imagine it is quite common for GWs to come across stolen property in the woods.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: jawbone]
#1332576
04/20/15 05:05 AM
04/20/15 05:05 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,155
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
bill
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,155
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
|
Bill,
Since he is investigating "lost property" where a crime may have been committed, it is standard procedure to secure the evidence until questions have been answered. That is what he did. I imagine it is quite common for GWs to come across stolen property in the woods. Investigating lost property? Who reported it lost? If you walk into someone's driveway and see their keys in their car is it ok to assume a crime has been committed and take the keys until you find the owner?
"Political debate: when charlatans come together to discuss their principles"
-
Bauvard
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: jawbone]
#1332586
04/20/15 05:14 AM
04/20/15 05:14 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,452
Alabama
jmj120
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,452
Alabama
|
Bill,
Since he is investigating "lost property" where a crime may have been committed, it is standard procedure to secure the evidence until questions have been answered. That is what he did. I imagine it is quite common for GWs to come across stolen property in the woods. You are really reaching here. There's no way the GW didn't know he was dealing with a hunter, probably a turkey hunter to be exact. So in your mind a GW could take your truck keys while parked on your property???? There had to be some type of complaint or some type of suspicion, otherwise in my opinion the GW was wayyyy out of line.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: JA]
#1332589
04/20/15 05:17 AM
04/20/15 05:17 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,127
Covington county AL
Zzzfog
6 point
|
6 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,127
Covington county AL
|
The mindset of a lot of LE these days that they can pretty much do as they please when "investigating" is absurdity personified. Try it on my property and I assure you the consequences won't be worth it.
Right and wrong will never change---only people's perception!
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: JA]
#1332590
04/20/15 05:18 AM
04/20/15 05:18 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,496
Sumter County
sumpter_al
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,496
Sumter County
|
OP (and everyone else) should keep their keys on them selves. I wear mine on a rope around my neck, tucked into my right front pocket so they wont flop around and make noise.
Regarding the meeting with the GW. I had a man on some game cameras on my place, I called the phone number on the states website and spoke to a very nice lady. She asked me to send the pictures to her. After she looked at them she told me that the man in the pictures was not a game warden. The man had on a blue long sleeve tee shirt khaki (dirty) pants and a beard. Pants were tucked into his boots and he had no sidearm.
She said that wardens are required to:
Always have their badge visible
Always have their sidearm
Always wear Green pants with boots
Always wear shirt with Logo (usually a button down either long or short sleeved).
If they are wearing a hat it will have the logo
And they frown on facial hair on wardens.
Maybe this lady didn't know what she was talking about, but she ran down that list like she know what she was saying.
BHAMFRED... was the above correct when you were working?
I love my country, but don't trust my government.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: jawbone]
#1332592
04/20/15 05:21 AM
04/20/15 05:21 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,342
mobile
charlie
12 point
|
12 point
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,342
mobile
|
And there lies the problem. We all know it is wrong. It was in effect a seizure and a violation of the man's constitutional rights but it will be framed as jawbone states to get around that if any complaints are filed. I don't understand why law enforcement can't understand that this elitist us against them mentality that everyone they meet is a criminal until proven innocent hurts them as well as law abiding citizens. You file a complaint and you risk reprisal by someone you already know will step around the letter of the law. If he was within his rights to take the keys why not just tell the man, hey here's your keys, I took them so you wouldn't take off before I caught up with you. Instead you make up a story that is just plausible enough to keep you out of trouble. Is that what an honest man would do? Do you think they would buy that story if I went through the mall parking lot trying everyone's car doors to see if they were locked so I could keep someone from stealing their car? Doesn't it make you feel good about law enforcement to hear a retired law enforcement supervisor tell you, "they will laugh their ass off" if you file a complaint. Gripe all you want. Whoever gets the complaint will laugh his ass off over it.
A GW is way back in the woods and comes across an ATV with no one around but still has the keys in it. He has no idea if it is stolen or being used by a hunter so he secures the vehicle by taking the keys. Since no one is around to claim the property, it is not an illegal "seizure". Once the owner was found, the keys were returned to him. End of story. It is not illegal to seize lost property. Since there was no owner around, it is lost property until the owner is located.
That is basically how the synopsis of the response to a complaint will read.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: charlie]
#1332595
04/20/15 05:24 AM
04/20/15 05:24 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,452
Alabama
jmj120
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,452
Alabama
|
And there lies the problem. We all know it is wrong. It was in effect a seizure and a violation of the man's constitutional rights but it will be framed as jawbone states to get around that if any complaints are filed. I don't understand why law enforcement can't understand that this elitist us against them mentality that everyone they meet is a criminal until proven innocent hurts them as well as law abiding citizens. You file a complaint and you risk reprisal by someone you already know will step around the letter of the law. If he was within his rights to take the keys why not just tell the man, hey here's your keys, I took them so you wouldn't take off before I caught up with you. Instead you make up a story that is just plausible enough to keep you out of trouble. Is that what an honest man would do? Do you think they would buy that story if I went through the mall parking lot trying everyone's car doors to see if they were locked so I could keep someone from stealing their car? Doesn't it make you feel good about law enforcement to hear a retired law enforcement supervisor tell you, "they will laugh their ass off" if you file a complaint. Gripe all you want. Whoever gets the complaint will laugh his ass off over it.
A GW is way back in the woods and comes across an ATV with no one around but still has the keys in it. He has no idea if it is stolen or being used by a hunter so he secures the vehicle by taking the keys. Since no one is around to claim the property, it is not an illegal "seizure". Once the owner was found, the keys were returned to him. End of story. It is not illegal to seize lost property. Since there was no owner around, it is lost property until the owner is located.
That is basically how the synopsis of the response to a complaint will read.
I'll have to disagree. If Bill Fuller is still in charge in Montgomery, he will do what is right. He's a very honorable man and unless there is more to this story, which I'm beginning to think there is, he will be fair. If the OP felt strong enough to post on an open forum, he should file a complaint. That simple.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: charlie]
#1332604
04/20/15 05:30 AM
04/20/15 05:30 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 15,547
Panhandle Florida
PaschalBD
Used to be TiderBD
|
Used to be TiderBD
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 15,547
Panhandle Florida
|
Most of the good GW's and LEO's consider themselves to be servants of the community. I think you'll find that the bad apples have more of a entitled mentality.
A servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ.
USAF Veteran
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: JA]
#1332606
04/20/15 05:30 AM
04/20/15 05:30 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,155
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
bill
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,155
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
|
Jawbone's contention that the officer should assume the property lost or assume a crime has been committed with no prior report of such, would be shredded in court by a competent attorney.
"Political debate: when charlatans come together to discuss their principles"
-
Bauvard
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: bill]
#1332619
04/20/15 05:41 AM
04/20/15 05:41 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,476
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,476
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
|
Jawbone's contention that the officer should assume the property lost or assume a crime has been committed with no prior report of such, would be shredded in court by a competent attorney. You are very wrong my friend! The officer will contend that he was not assuming anything, but he was investigating the situation. Any court in America will say that is reasonable.
Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: bill]
#1332620
04/20/15 05:42 AM
04/20/15 05:42 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,496
Sumter County
sumpter_al
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,496
Sumter County
|
Was the 4 wheeler behind a locked gate? If so then the warden should not have taken the keys. Now if the 4 wheeler had leaves all over it and the tires were flat, he could assume it had been there for a while and was possibly stolen and dumped. But a 4 wheeler in running condition (the engine might have still been warm) on private property, parked on the side of the road (not hidden up in the woods), and behind a locked gate is not indicative of something that is lost or stolen.
I also think that the GW should have left his card on the 4 wheeler with his cell number on it. Explaining why he thought he had the right to take the keys.
I love my country, but don't trust my government.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: jmj120]
#1332625
04/20/15 05:45 AM
04/20/15 05:45 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,068
Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
|
Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,068
Round ‘bout there
|
If Bill Fuller is still in charge in Montgomery, Who are you talking about? Someone in the DCNR Law Enforcement Section?
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: charlie]
#1332635
04/20/15 05:53 AM
04/20/15 05:53 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,186
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
gman
Booner
|
Booner
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,186
34°25'49.80"N 86°55'46.99"...
|
And there lies the problem. We all know it is wrong. It was in effect a seizure and a violation of the man's constitutional rights but it will be framed as jawbone states to get around that if any complaints are filed. I don't understand why law enforcement can't understand that this elitist us against them mentality that everyone they meet is a criminal until proven innocent hurts them as well as law abiding citizens. You file a complaint and you risk reprisal by someone you already know will step around the letter of the law. If he was within his rights to take the keys why not just tell the man, hey here's your keys, I took them so you wouldn't take off before I caught up with you. Instead you make up a story that is just plausible enough to keep you out of trouble. Is that what an honest man would do? Do you think they would buy that story if I went through the mall parking lot trying everyone's car doors to see if they were locked so I could keep someone from stealing their car? Doesn't it make you feel good about law enforcement to hear a retired law enforcement supervisor tell you, "they will laugh their ass off" if you file a complaint. Gripe all you want. Whoever gets the complaint will laugh his ass off over it.
A GW is way back in the woods and comes across an ATV with no one around but still has the keys in it. He has no idea if it is stolen or being used by a hunter so he secures the vehicle by taking the keys. Since no one is around to claim the property, it is not an illegal "seizure". Once the owner was found, the keys were returned to him. End of story. It is not illegal to seize lost property. Since there was no owner around, it is lost property until the owner is located.
That is basically how the synopsis of the response to a complaint will read.
Good post 
The harder I practice, the luckier I get.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: jawbone]
#1332642
04/20/15 05:56 AM
04/20/15 05:56 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,452
Alabama
jmj120
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,452
Alabama
|
Jawbone's contention that the officer should assume the property lost or assume a crime has been committed with no prior report of such, would be shredded in court by a competent attorney. You are very wrong my friend! The officer will contend that he was not assuming anything, but he was investigating the situation. Any court in America will say that is reasonable. A parked 4 wheeler in the woods during turkey season is a "situation"? Horsecrap.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: Clem]
#1332646
04/20/15 05:57 AM
04/20/15 05:57 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,452
Alabama
jmj120
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,452
Alabama
|
If Bill Fuller is still in charge in Montgomery, Who are you talking about? Someone in the DCNR Law Enforcement Section? Yeah,the last account I had is he was in charge of some GW's or some area of the State. Not sure. Troy would know. I knew him years ago when he was a GW. He's been promoted several times. A very good man.
|
|
|
Re: Weird encounter with a game warden
[Re: jawbone]
#1332649
04/20/15 05:58 AM
04/20/15 05:58 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,155
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
bill
Freak of Nature
|
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,155
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
|
Jawbone's contention that the officer should assume the property lost or assume a crime has been committed with no prior report of such, would be shredded in court by a competent attorney. You are very wrong my friend! The officer will contend that he was not assuming anything, but he was investigating the situation. Any court in America will say that is reasonable. What is there to investigate when there has been no report of lost or stolen property? If you can't assume or suspect a crime has been committed there is no right to seizure of private property (the keys). It would be a more reasonable assumption that the landowner or one of his agents was on the property and had used the 4 wheeler to commute to the area. If the officer suspected the property stolen or lost a simple call to check the Vin could have been performed. There are many more reasonable scenarios for the 4 wheeler to have been there lawfully than there was for an officer to seize the property without taking the aforementioned steps. You can't walk in a driveway and take the keys from someone's ignition if there has been no report or suspicion of a crime and the 4 wheeler is no different.
Last edited by bill; 04/20/15 06:01 AM.
"Political debate: when charlatans come together to discuss their principles"
-
Bauvard
|
|
|
|
