This is the reason I hunt by horseback.

He would the the person that a complaint would work its way up to or down to depending on who recieved the complaint.

Bill, you don't have to know a crime has been committed to act. The courts grant pretty lenient leeway to investigate whether a crime has been committed or not. Sorry you don't like it, but no way is seizing control of what could be considered an abandoned ATV for investigative purposes going to be considered a constitutional violation.

This is completely absurd. If we use jawbones logic then a LEO can make ANY situation into a possible crime scene and do whatever the heck they want.

Bill, how is this going to court? What are the damages here? You are so wrong I'm not even sure what your arguing now. Maybe if you give me an example of what happens all the time, I'll understand. I'm not being a smartass either, I seriously don't understand your point other than you think an officer has retrieved some keys in a four wheeler with no one around in the woods and then return to the owner before the owner knows it is missing, hey have violated the persons rights.

This is the reason I hunt by horseback.

It may make sense to you but I've forgotten why he says it's unconstitutional. Based on what I remember him saying, LE can not seize property until they know a crime has been committed, is that right?

I wasn't necessarily saying this particular case would be going to court but if the officer taking the keys had resulted in the hunter not being able to leave for an emergency or work or any other reason that caused him damages I firmly believe the court would see the seizure, without reasonable suspicion of a crime, as a violation of the individuals rights. An officer can't take every benign situation , seize private property, and claim he was just investigating. I know officers do that very thing all the time and get away with it but it doesn't make it legal.

It may make sense to you but I've forgotten why he says it's unconstitutional. Based on what I remember him saying, LE can not seize property until they know a crime has been committed, is that right?

I never have taken the keys out of my Jeep regardless of where I'm at. At home,dollar store,private property,Skyline I mean never. Would the GW have the right to open the door and take my keys out on Skyline? I figure that's what I pay Alfa for if someone steals it. I can't understand out doing his job without his weapon. I don't go to church with out mine. I believe he was poaching turkey on your land and like somebody said his gear was laying close by.

I remember now, police are all evil and bill collectors are what keep our streets safe. I'm sorry you see the world this way. If the GW had evil intentions, I would be the first to call for his head, but he was doing his job within the parameters the court allows. Have a good day.

On skyline, probably, as that would not be private land? And, according to jawbone, on private land behind a locked gate too. Crap, i better get to the house and get the key outta my lawnmower parked behind my shed. It could be confiscated cause the popo saw it doing a drive thru and thought it was possibly stolen or abandoned...seeing as how the key was in it and all.

Bill, I say this with all sincerity, if an officer in my area found an abandoned ATV (no one with it) and didn't do something to investigate further,considering that ATV theft is an epidemic in my area, he would not be considered to be doing his job. Even during hunting season, an ATV alone in the woods warrants further looking into. I leave the key in mine and it would probably perturb me if a GW took the keys, but I go back to my original point that he was only doing his job and sometimes we don't like it and it is intrusive. As long as there are limits to it, we'll have to live with it. I don't like when I go through a roadblock, but I have to live with it. I absolutely despise red light cameras because they go against my ethical training in LE, but I have to live with them. All I was doing, or trying to do not to well apparently was to point out why complaining in this case is pointless. I will contend until the cows come home that the courts would not have a problem with the GW taking keys from an ATV with no one around if he has a reasonable explanation. If anyone disagrees, you'll just have to disagree. Going to cut grass now that it is finally dry.

My home is 'abandoned' today because there is "no one with it". I may have to prove ownership when I get home. After all, there are tens of thousands of dollars worth of goods there and "no omne with it". I'd venture to say that half of the Aldeer members are in this same situation.

Jawbone, you've been an asset to this forum on MANY occasions but you forgot to take your meds or something on this one. You're just flat out wrong.