horseshitt. Corn hasn't caused the decline in turkey numbers across the state, destruction of habitat by logging and increased predators like coyotes and coons has caused the decline.

I agree. People have been feeding corn for a long long time, It didn't magically just now have a hugely negative impact.

Agree. Had a long very specified response typed out and had to take a phone call and when I clicked iPad back on it was gone.

That whole "thoughts" page was fear-mongering. Period.

Wake up

No one is going to disagree with that. But how would you rank them. For my area I think it is:
1) Coons/possums
2) Bobcats
3) Coyotes
4) Others such as egg eating snakes.

I don't have hogs.

Habitat loss is above everything else.

Guess I'll take the minority view; I agreed with Corky.

I gotta believe all the hunters on here that say turkey numbers are down in north AL, but I don't see any decline where I live and hunt. I made a trip thru Coosa, Chilton, Perry, Dallas and Wilcox counties over the weekend and saw turkey's in every county along the road. The decline seems like a north AL problem to me, so somebody needs to figure out why. Maybe corn could have some impact? I dunno how much is fed up that way.

I sure agree with this statement:

>>>Habitat degradation is a serious problem around bait and feed sites. �People don�t know what happens to habitat around bait and feed sites. All the preferred forage is gone. It creates a habitat desert except for the bait pile,� Miller said.<<<

I used to feed wheat between deer and turkey seasons to try to keep the turkeys on my place. It worked well. But the turkeys not only ate the wheat, they ate everything else in the area. When I quit feeding, they mostly left. Wasn't as much food easily available, and they could make an easier living somewhere else. I quit feeding them wheat.

But that didn't reduce overall populations; just hurt my own property. This might hurt the overall population:

>>>Dr. Miller points out the detrimental effects of bait and feed placed for deer on other species. �If you�re putting out corn for deer, then you are adversely affecting non-target species, like turkey poults picking up moldy corn with aflatoxins and dying,� he said.<<<

Can anyone say for sure this isn't happening? I've no idea how much it happens, but I don't see any benefit to the turkeys from a corn pile. If feeding is done right it probably doesn't hurt them, but we all know that some are not gonna do it right.

I sure agree with this point:

>>>If Conservation officials are truly concerned with what is in the best interest of wildlife resources, sound science requires that they do all they can to discourage baiting and feeding, rather than all they can to encourage such practices.<<<

When I am appointed the Turkey Czar, putting out corn will be a hanging offense. I don't know how much that would really help turkey populations, but I think it would help a little, so I'll do it.

I'll implement a program that rebates landowners $500 for each acre planted in chufa - now that will really help the turkeys. Other parts of my platform will be $100 bounties on all the critters that eat turkeys, and a one-a-day limit on spring gobblers all over the country. And one special turkey license for $20 will cover the whole country. And killing a hen at any time is another hanging offense. Decoys will be illegal, but not a hanging offense; only a long prison term.

I'll pay for everything by outrageous taxes on Yankees.

We will have more turkeys than can be imagined. And its so simple.

What decade do you guys consider the largest percent increase in turkey numbers in this state? 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, or 00's?

I have an example in my neck of the woods that I believe would show it ain't corn, nor is it habitat loss. I live near Cheaha Mountain in the Talladega Natl Forest. Essentially it's 100,000 acres of uninhabited, unmolested, and unbroken rolling mixed timber woods. If you throw Choccolocco Mgt Area in, that's another 56,000 acres of the same habitat. This is an area that comprises roughly 3 to 4 counties in East Central Alabama. Now I wouldn't say there's no corn anywhere in those woods, but I have personally never seen corn, plus it would be very unlikely for someone to carry corn in a place that rugged and remote. 20 years ago there were 20X the turkeys there that we have now (my estimation, but I'm not trying to exaggerate). Places where I once could hear as many as 15 birds gobble at daylight, you are very likely to hear 0 today, and NOTHING has changed with the locale. In the early 90's we'd call in 3/4 gobblers ganged up and they'd have 20/30 hens with them. Today you are lucky to call up 1 gobbler, and he often only has 1 (or 2 or 3) hens. What TWO things are noticeably different today than then???
1. 20X more hunters
2. 10,000X more coyotes
As a young boy I don't recall ever seeing but 1 coyote. Today it's unusual to not see one every time I go, not to mention the multiple packs that howl at dusk/dawn. And the same goes for armadillos, though most folks say they aren't nest raiders(?).
Me personally, I have all but quit turkey hunting because of the number of hunters today. You get to the woods 2 hours too early, and there are already 2 trucks parked on every road. It's just too much.

Back when we had farmers planting corn ,soy beans,and peanuts and the woods were full of mast producing hardwoods, we had plenty of turkeys. Now we have just about nothing except planted pines. It don' take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

Pssh have we not always had possums, coons, and pine logging? Turkeys are every where.

In my area we have not had the coon population and growing we have now. Not in my life time anyway. When you could sale hides for $15+ back in the '80's, the population was kept down. Possums, foxes, bobcats were all sold.

This is not true at all in areas of North AL, where the decrease is the most noticeable/debated. As a matter of fact, the ag dominated areas there generally have fewer birds. Are you a rocket scientist?

Yes, and that was my point about the Cheaha Mountain area. It has never been anything except large hardwods, and that's never changed. There has been virtually no logging, there has never been any agriculture. It is something besides food.

What about chicken sh!t? There's more chicken houses than ever before, in fact it's out state's #1 "Ag" industry.

Everywhere I hunted in central Al was awful this year. Absolutely the worst I can remember it. Little to no birds in places that always held a good population. Usually I could convince myself they just werent ready or gobbling good because I could always find gobbler tracks, strutting areas, etc. Little to any sign this year. They were just not there.

I can see the argument about the number of hunters in the woods today. However, I also wonder how many of those hunters are newbies. In general terms, newbies don't put a real hurting on the public population of birds. Clubs with little pressure maybe so. I don't know what happened this year, I am just hoping and praying next year will see a rebound.

PCP - I agree with you concerning the original post. Nothing good can come from all the feeding stations. But nobody wants to hear that. That can hurt a lot of peoples feelings. Most just think they are doing something right and good by the wildlife when they feed them, and it's hard to think otherwise.

where i hunt in the national forest in perry county plenty of hardwoods not much logging, if any on forest land, i beleive it is them dang yotes. the place i hunt was burnt the week after deer season. the woods was wide open and i didnt hear a bird in there all year. heard 2 across the road where it was burnt last year. nfhunter hunted a place where they didnt burn just to the south of "my" place and it had a few birds.
i heard plenty of yotes every time i was camping or right at daylight when i didnt camp.

scott

I'll vote for you, if there is an election.

PCP has let his evil avatar get ahold of the puter again......

I guess left over corn in corn fields don't mold. How much proof is there that turkeys are dying from eating molding corn that is only at baiting sites?

PCP, you've seen my place and know it is small, probably too small and close in to hold many birds. However, I'd kept feeders out for the deer. I quit feeding this year after it occurred to me, while looking at pictures taken around the feeders, that I was feeding a lot more egg eaters than deer. In the future, what feeding I do will more likely be grown.

We were told for 30 years coyotes didn't impact deer populations.
A lot of those same people are still holding out on the Turkeys. Bobcat will get them for sure. Everyone agrees. But many will tell you a coyote can't catch a turkey. Well - even if Mr. Coyote's percentage isn't real high, his chances + Mr. Bobcat + Mr. Raccoon and any other nest raider + Hunters. Once any populations gets down to a certain level it has a hard time coming back.

Bottom line... if you have a lot of turkeys and a lot of coyotes. Pretty soon you'll have less turkeys. They score at least some of the time.

I admit I'm on the lunatic fringe about coyotes, I'm an alarmist for sure about them. I think they are killing everything out there that we hunt, and doing it much faster than everybody believes or will admit. They don't have any predators around here, we have the perfect habitat for them, and they are nose-hounds (so to speak)--they can find a nest with NO problem.

I agree. I hate coyotes with a passion. And it is NOT faster than I believe!! With so many animals after their eggs, it's a miracle we have any turkeys. I just think for me, coons get more eggs. But, who knows??

I agree. Is there any thought about aramdillos raiding nests?

Your asking 1 person in one very small part of the state. I'm no biologist, even though my step son is, so what I see is VERY limited and not scientific. I don't THINK armadillos are a problem. But most agree there IS a problem. Just what is the problem?? There needs to be a vast study done by biologist and try to find a solution. Same for the deer in my area. That would take a lot of time and $$$!!! Also, I think most would agree that IF we could eliminate coyotes, the world would be a better place. I HATE THEM!!!

Now, having raised hogs in the past, I could see them as a major problem where they are.

I'd say its gotta be the 60s. Many places went from no turkeys in the early 60s to booming populations by the end of the decade. I'm going from memory, but I think the largest harvest ever was around 2006.

Predator populations are definitely up, and that can't help the turkeys. My bounty program will take care of that. Knock the predator populations back and you will see more turkeys for sure. I think coons need to be killed more than the coyotes, but kill them all is my philosophy.

My theory on some of the places in north AL that have always been hardwoods and still are losing population is pretty simple. North AL was way behind south and central in getting turkey populations re-established. Some places in north AL haven't had turkeys all that long compared to the southern half.

When turkeys are introduced into a place they haven't been before, or at least haven't been in a long time, its natural for the population to explode. I've seen it happen in several places. I think its the fact that the predators aren't used to turkeys and it takes them a while to figure out how to locate the nests. Whatever the reason, when turkeys are re-established, the population quickly goes way up. It often goes up to a point that simply isn't sustainable. Newbies start turkey hunting for the first time and think its normal to hear 20 gobblers a morning. It isn't.

I think what many are seeing in north AL is nothing unusual at all - its just the population dropping back to a level that is normal. I saw this happen in Perry Co in the 60s and 70s. In the late 60s, you could see flocks of over 100 turkeys in the big fields along the Cahaba River from the highway most any day in the fall. It sounded like a turkey farm in the spring. By the mid 70s there were hardly any turkeys at all in that area. They soon recovered to a level that has been fairly consistent since.

If I hear 2 gobblers on my place on a spring morning, it was a good day. More than 2 is outstanding. It isn't that unusual to not hear one. It's been that way since 1990, when we started back hunting them after the place was clearcut in 1977. It ain't normal to hear 20 eastern turkeys in a single morning. If you experience it, enjoy it. It ain't gonna last.

Brad, I've got no idea if leftover corn in a field can poison turkeys. I've never seen any turkey that I thought had died from that. But Corky's article says there is plenty of research that shows baiting is bad, and it seems his main source is a MSU guy. Would Dr. Miller happen to be the MSU prof that must be teaching that gobblers sit on the eggs and help with raising poults?

Sorry, couldn't resist. As Troy says, its the Pale Rider avatar.

Hal, I'd love for you to vote for me, but Czars are not elected. They are appointed. Hopefully for life if I can get the next President to appoint me.

Where did you hear that?

PCP, I would have to say the 80's because I ain't that old!! Seriously, late 70's/early 80's is when I started turkey hunting. Also, there was a large turkey restocking going on in my area during this time. So, while my answer may not be correct, it's easy to see how I would draw that conclusion.

In that time I have seen a lot of fluctuations in population. This slump seems to have lasted a lot longer. Even before the drop, gobbling had about stopped. Many times I have seen coyotes slipping up on a gobbling turkey even though I have never seen one catch one. I believe that is the gobbling problem. Did I mention I hate coyotes!!

I personally think it's the wide spread use of Chicken Litter on farm land in North Alabama. With the cost of fertilize now a days farmers are turning to Chicken Litter. Sure is strange that turkeys started to disappear when more people started using litter.

Chicken chit is #1 on my list. Feeding doesn't help.

As for the varmints, if you all trapped and killed all nest raiding varmints you can, coons, possums, skunks. The coyotes will leave because the easy meals are gone.

The debate over aflatoxin in corn will go on and on. If it was serious you would think it would kill some of the 25 to 30 coons that raid most corn feeders every night. Corn probably does help coon populations expand and so there are more around to destroy nests.

I was in a 5000 acre club in MS that was basically a hobby farm for a rich, retired fellow who owned it. He ran it as a timber farm and burned about 1000 acres every year in February. He had a USFWS certified trapper come in for a month in the spring and a month in the fall who absolutely decimated the coyotes. There were trail cam pics of a 180" buck taken on the place and in the 3 years I hunted it, every longbeard I called up had two or three more with him except one who was so mean none of the others would get near him.

I think habitat enhancement (there are less coons and cotton rats in burned woods) and effective predator control is a step in the right direction. We don't all have 5000 acres to play with and timber companies don't burn to any extent any more but I don't think hiring a certified trapper is out of reach for most hunting clubs. While I don't remember the trapper's name, he was on a list supplies by MSU and the DWFP. This guy was death on coyotes though and it made a difference.

Just some food for thought. Hope it doesn't have aflatoxin on it.

Lots of blame going to coyotes. I'm sure they bare some responsibility, but focusing on JUST coyotes is just going to make it worse. Why? Because they help control the real avian predators. Coons, skunks, bobcats, etc., have a much bigger impact on turkey populations than coyotes and if you kill only coyotes, there will be more avian predators. If you trap, trap em all. If you predator hunt, hunt em all. Otherwise, you just may make it worse. Been there, done that.

I think a lot of people are trying to pinpoint exact causes of population declines, but I think it's a variety of factors that range widely in different regions of the state. All the aforementioned causes play some role, but I think spring weather has a greater impact than any of them.

And, to quote Cletus from a previous thread,

if aflatoxins killed the snot out of turkeys there wouldn't be a turkey left in Texas......

Sensible answer. I like that!

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/ucm074703.htm

Acceptable aflatoxin levels vary by species and maturity but poultry is in general a little more susceptible than some other species.

Also, a lot of the corn that ends up in bags labeled "deer corn" end up that way because they couldn't pass the quality standards (including aflatoxin levels) to be sold for feed.

All of the biologist bring up habitat improvement. That is not a real option in most of Alabama. When leasing paper or timber company land, you can't do any habitat improvement, other than adding foodplots, that's it. Even adding foodplots isn't a realistic option for some lease holders because the landowners don't want anything cleared that could be a place to hold loblolly pines. Our lease holder doesn't allow any of the land to be burned whatsoever, and the location of any new plots have to be approved by the company, and they cut during April, May, and June every year. I don't know if logging kills poults, but I'm sure they run over some nests with skidders.

Texas was at least recently still restocking in east Texas which would be more comparable to Alabama. West Texas is dry and wouldn't compare to Alabama. The molds that make aflatoxins like hot and humid.

I don't think it is all of the problem, but feeding wildlife definitely is a problem in many cases.

Like said earlier. pay a bounty for yotes, bob cats and racoons and see how well the turkeys bounce back.

Sorry, just a bad joke. MSU grads seem to have a different perspective than AU grads.

Too many people thinking they should kill the limit every year dang sure doesn't help.

lots of Texas gets plenty of rain, you must not watch the news lately.

Makes perfect sense.

That's what I meant about the gobblers sitting on the eggs. If the hens have to do all the work by themselves, that's gotta hurt their success.

[quote=Snuffy]I personally think it's the wide spread use of Chicken Litter on farm land in North Alabama. With the cost of fertilize now a days farmers are turning to Chicken Litter. Sure is strange that turkeys started to disappear when more people started using litter. [/quote

THIS. we had a LOT of turkeys..but couldnt hunt them in our area. Id see huge flocks of 30 with big groups of gobblers everyday in the big ag fields.

The farmer next to us farms a couple thousand acres, and he started using chicken litter..and with in 2 years we never SEE ANY turkeys now. NONE!

They are all gone. Dead I believe from diseases from the litter.

I do watch the news, I know about the flooding, and I have forgotten more about aflatoxins than a retired game warden will ever know.

Hit home?

no need to get butt hurt......

I'm pretty sure you have forgotten more about any subject than everybody on here combined.....at least in yer mind.

That's why I never under any circumstances shoot any of the gobblers who try to help out in the nesting/incubating cycle. They get a pass from me everytime. The only ones I'm interested in are those deadbeet dads who treat hens like nothing but sex objects and then go looking for the next baby mama
Maybe if states rights stuff ever comes to a head we can at least make PCP the turkey czar of Alabama or maybe even the southeast.

LOL - Not a bit. I went to Auburn. I learned that the gobbler becomes expendable after carrying out his one function in the reproduction process. I try to kill my limit every year and I know that has zero effect on the overall turkey population. I saw 5 longbeards in one of my fields a couple weeks after the season ended.

All the habitat work I do does affect the population. I think encouraging others to manage the land for turkeys is the best way to increase the population. Then we can all enjoy trying to take some of the excess birds in the spring. I was taught this at a very young age and I've never seen anything to make me doubt it.

I hope you know I'm joking about the gobblers sitting on the eggs.

Brent, that's a great policy on which gobblers you shoot. Only kill the deadbeats, give the good family gobblers a pass. You need to share that with the nwtf folks.

Nope,not the corn, it's them 2 coonarse Hebert boys that knocked the population down so much. The 4 gobblers that took us 3 yrs to kill is what did it. The other gobblers figure if the 2 could kill that many, they better stay quiet and hide from all the sho nuff hunters in y'all's state. We had them so scared they probably skipped the breeding stage, hence the decline in the population. This I just my opinion, no facts can be found to back this statement.

But I am concerned that he'd make me shooting a fall hen a hanging offense....

Charles Kelly would send a MOSAD hit team after you....

I can help with this problem.

Hmmm

Hey, that could happen now. Better watch your back, Hal. That guy in the dark sunglasses could be after you.

Hal, I do apologize for my role in the destruction of your thread.

Im calling horsechit, on the chicken chit deal.. We use a pile of litter within a 5 mile radius of my house. And there is a pile of birds around here. Just ask BrentM, 257, Tru-talker, and bowhunter84... Blame it on what you want... Oh and to those of you that blames it on litter.. I hope you starve, because that litter helps feed Alabama...

You wasting your time here Troy, This man has got that brilliant thing called Google, if it's on the computer it's got to be true.. Done learned, you aint gonna get no where with him.. Just my $.02

not to worry Daniel, I don't listen to him anyway......

Maybe if I could talk PCP into appointing me as his deputy czar I could convince him to go easy on the hen killers....

When we have a crop failure it's usually several things that culminate to cause the disaster. With turkeys decline in areas I feel it's the same. There's no one point source of impact. Likely weather, habitat, hunting, predators and natural selection causes ebbs and flows in populations. But this may seem too logical for the state dummies to process.

If you don't listen, why did you reply to my post?

1. I'm not butthurt.
2. We aren't talking about other topics or other members. We are talking about aflatoxin and you and I stand by my statement.

That very well could be true but I blame everything on coyotes. I HATE THEM!!! They cause global warming and got Obama elected!!

Well, I really don't think corn is the major factor, no do I believe chicken litter is a player or environment decline either...

For the last month, I've been seeing two hens on Fort Rucker and not a poult in sight. Yesterday morning I get to their area and I could not believe my eyes... Three longbeards are with them and are strutting hard. I wished I had time to pull over to watch, but it looked like early April...

I have heard, that if nest or hatch was bad, birds will continue to mate through the summer but this is more from guys up north in milder climates.

I believe it's more nest predators than anything...

That office already belongs to me when PCP is appointed.

I believe that in my area it's been a combination of everything already mentioned!

Hunting pressure has gone from very low to extremely high, timber management is exactly what it says, "timber management" not "turkey management", chicken litter (from the chicken house straight to the field) and predators!

I just hope PCP gets appointed soon so I can retire from this chemical plant and get rich trapping!...

I believe I put a stipulation on that appointment - you have to convert to an Auburn man first. Once you do that, the job is yours!

Hal, sorry, but your public confessions of henkilling will make you ineligible. Even though a Czar doesn't have to worry about public opinion, it still would just look bad. But I'm convinced all your TSS work has saved many gobblers from a terrible death by coyotes, so I will make sure you are spared from the hanging.

>>>I just hope PCP gets appointed soon so I can retire from this chemical plant and get rich trapping!...<<<

I will indeed make you a rich man at $100 per varmint. I may have to put a higher bounty on coyotes or all the trappers will focus on the easier critters. I'm gonna have an army of trappers out in the woods eliminating turkey eaters. A coon is gonna be as scarce as a black panther.


Dang, this place sure does get slow in the off-season.

Referring to us as state dummies and not thinking logically is a great way to communicate your concerns.

Science has already proven over and over that congregating animals in an area in an unnatural way(feeding) assists with the spread of highly infectious diseases. I don't understand for te life of me why some people don't understand that. It's no different than a person with E. Choli on their hands visiting a buffet line. Guess what? Nearly everybody else that goes down the buffet line will either transfer or contract E. Choli. Come on people.

As for that being a primary cause for declines, I'm not of the opinion it's high on the list, but it might very well be a contributor on local levels where diseased turkeys have been collected.

So why did the state legalize feeding?

Well Matt I was pointing that more at the paper pushing desk jockeys in Montgomery not field guys like you. I'm in the same boat I got some assholes in Washington trying to tell me and my customers how to farm our Wheeler refuge here. That schit don't fly with me

Thank you... I think...

It's always been legal to "feed".

Ok, let me rephrase it for you. Why did the state pass a law that encourages hunters to feed?

Try again.

Nobody passed a law; the state just defined "area", which was in the law, but vague. Now its still vague.

PCP for President!... We'll just skip the Czar or scar or whatever! Lol!

And what is this "off" season you speak of? I'm just too busy planting and trapping to have internet time except during hunting season!

Better watch who you call a dummie

Damnit I said it was the city folks at the state level not yall.

I don't think many people were feeding much corn 10 years ago when the turkey population disappeared from my place. We haven't had birds since Hurricane Ivan took most all of our timber.

Well shoot...... I'm out.

Good luck in your new position Hal.

corn ain't got shitt to do with any turkey decline in Alabama.

Lock the thread.....captain aflatoxin has spoken!

I'd reply to yer dumb ass but I have you on ignore.....

You have me on ignore.....,and still can't resist the urge to reply.

And of course back to the cursing and name calling.

Pull the strings and watch him dance!

BC, you are passing on a job that would pay you a 7 figure salary, let you hunt in every state, hunt from March thru June, make a fall trip to New Zealand to see what we can learn by killing a bunch of their feral turkeys, and then do nothing the rest of the year. You would pass on that just to avoid saying, "War Eagle" ?

You understand we gotta put up a united front? And what did uat ever do for the wild turkey anyway?

War Eagle!.... War Eagle!....War Eagle!.....

There! I put my application in!

I'm going to have to rethink that then.

PCP: this killing stuff for long periods of time and in far off places has me interested and re-thinking my current employment options.

And if if helps, I graduated from AU.

WAR EAGLE!!!!

Hey you are still gonna let me put out corn, right?

I graduated from UAB. Their little brother syndrome is three times as bad as Auburns. That's almost like graduating from Auburn, right?

No. No, it isn't.

Poor Uab. Its the only school in the country where their own trustees want them to fail.

A7F, you gotta change your way of thinking. There will be no need for corn once I am the Czar.

I'm more inline with this thinking. I've heard of several bird species that cycle. I know we seen numerous poults early and then after all the rains very few poults.

I know of one area that used to hold numbers of birds that no longer does. Used to see 2-3 flocks with 50-75 birds almost always in the fields against the wood line. Lot's of corn piles and chicken liter used in the area.

There was a club that used to corn them up that had what most would think to be terrible turkey habitat. Basically natural regrowth hardwoods that were 10-12 years old. I killed birds in similar habitat just down the road. Seems the birds actually use that habitat more than thought of, at least in that area.

Lot's of gobblers killed in clear cuts thru 2 yr old pines and drains around here.

I'm sure further studies will be done.

This past year the birds just didn't gobble, towards the end of the season we kinda felt jakes were the problem. They were gobbling sporadically and had several groups whoop lone gobblers.

Negative Ghostrider. There will ALWAYS be a need for corn. Always.

Tell em Matt, what the two answers to all of the world's problems are. Tell em.


***** Just to clarify this particular topic, I am absolutely not in favor of dumping out a bag of corn and then sitting in a pop-up blind and murdering him over said pile of corn.....well, unless they deserve it. In that case....

I do not believe corn is the reason for turkey decline. If there is a decline, it seems to be in north Alabama and southern Tennessee.

I have been saying for several years that the population was going down. I do believe it will go back up eventually.

I no longer worry about asking the guys that have power in either Alabama or Tennessee, neither one of them care or even think there is a problem.

Who would you be referring to? The state agencies?

Yep, professional biologists have no idea what they are doing nor do they care

Strange they dedicate their lives to working/conserving the natural resources for the benefit of everyone.

Matt Brock and Nighthunter, excuse my ignorance, and I am being real, no typical aldeer sarcasm or bull.

Inform me please. Besides the restocking of turkeys in north Alabama, what else has the state done to promote turkeys in North Central and northwestern Alabama?
Turkey hunting isn't a culture or way of life up here for many, simply because there were no turkeys here until about 1995.

I just think they could do a better job of teaching people and hunters about turkeys and turkey habitat. All of the focus is in the southern portion of the state.

Again, excuse my ignorance.

By the way, I am still loosing respect for whoever makes the rules to liberalize baiting rules even more.

I mean, could you name specifically on if or when anything will be done or is being done? Specifically in Limestone and Lauderdale county?

Perhaps I could even put forth some helpful insight. I do anything could can to help there be more turkeys?

I'll start and Matt will probably add to it...

For starters we have a Turkey committee that works with several other states to stay on top of turkey issues. Currently there is research taking place throughout the state on turkeys, and yes in north AL. I am not going to dive off into the weeds on the research. I am not on the turkey committee, so I only know a little about it.

I do know there were stakeholder meetings a few months ago strictly on turkey in your district.

We also have a Technical Assistance team, which I am over, that will come out and assist landowners in all kinds of management. If you want assistance in turkey management, great, or heck we will come out for deer, quail, and even songbirds if that is your thing.

Our staff is here to help. Whether people believe it or not, we do know what we are doing Some may not agree with some things in the past or even now, ok, I get it. Don't let that get in the way using the valuable resource that is available to you. I think if you find some folks that have been in contact with Matt or myself you'll find that we try very hard help folks meet their goals and hopefully they will tell you we provide a quality service. I sure feel like we do...

As NH stated, we have a turkey technical committee, of which I am the northwest AL representative. We held a stakeholder meeting with the public at the Tanner office a few months ago and I presented our current and future plans to address the many turkey population management issues of my area of the state. There was at least two forum members at that meeting. Not only did I give a presentation, but I also received feedback from every participant. Turkey decline was at the forefront of the discussions, considering several counties in north AL have experienced declines.

We collect poult production and population estimates every year. We also encourage the public to participate, and I have discussed this with numerous landowners. I conduct site visits to properties in your area and provide the best technical advice and management recommendations I can to help people reach their goals. NH and his biologists do this exclusively, and we know what we are doing.

North AL doesn't need a mass restocking effort. It needs quality habitat. Right now it's not there, and won't be as long as current land use practices continue. There's nothing I, NH, or any other government or private biologist can do about that.

Saying we don't care is simply not true.

We also send all suspected diseased turkeys to SCWDS for necropsies.

I just read this whole thread and wanted to point out that the turkeys in SE AL are doing just fine! No drop in population around my places, and I feed all year except for that month and a half of season. I have seen more grown poults this summer than I ever have, Period. We kill the absolute piss out of the turkeys on most of my leases and they just seem to regenerate every year. This is nothing but timber company land too, tons of clear cuts, hardly any hardwoods and its thick. No AG Fields anywhere close and chicken houses galor. it's not uncommon to kill a bird within 100 yards of a chicken house. I also have so many coons I can't even plant chufa patches any longer because they dig them up to fast. Not to mention the number of good turkey hunters that have killed way more than their limits of turkeys since they were teenagers and have been doing so for the last 30 years. If being over hunted, having more coons, yotes, bobcats, feeding etc... is what's causing a so called "decline" in our birds then why aren't mine being affected. I know some areas have higher populations and such and that's understandable, but I feel like if hunters go and don't hear turkeys gobble during season then they just say they aren't there when in reality there are far more than you think. I've been on my places and not heard a single turkey gobble for days and then one day its like a light switch turns on and I'll hear 10+ birds in one morning on 500 acres. for instance, if I have a club member show up to hunt a weekend and he doesn't hear, see or kill a turkey then there aren't any left or the neighbor killed them all, or the dang yotes have caught them all or the coons have busted all of our nest for the last few years. to be honest if you don't have a ton of turkeys on your lease, or favorite WMA or private property there may not be enough desirable habitat to hold, feed and breed the number of turkeys you want then they aren't going to be there. If you go to a WMA that has a chat ton of turkey hunters, great habitat and you don't see, kill or hear a turkey it's probably because they don't want to gobble due to traffic, being called to a ton, etc.... if you want the numbers to hunt acquire the places that have them. now that my rant is over, 2 states that feed the crap out of corn and have a chat ton of turkeys FL, and TX. Corn ain't to blame.

I appreciate the feedback nighthunter and matt. I do know in northern limestone and Lauderdale counties is good turkey habitat. I am well aware of the insufficient habitat in Morgan and Lawrence counties, and certain parts of Colbert.

Turkeys for some reason do not thrive in big ag areas in this part of the country.

Again, thanks for the feedback. And sorry if yall post it already, but if somebody would post about these meetings I would gladly attend, good Lord willing.

And if you can answer this one question you'll be a hero in my book. You take very similar habitat in the Midwest and you can't beat turkeys off of it. They do not, and I repeat, DO NOT, thrive in agricultural lands in north AL.

Nor in MS. The MS Delta basically has no turkeys with the exception of the clubs between the levees

Sure wish I'd known about the meeting at Harris station. I'd liked to throw some ideas around. The main reason they're not thriving in N Bama Ag country is too many small tract landowners vs S bama. Too many cleared back hedgerows and too many "folks" tromping around bothering farms. In N bama there's no gates to keep joyriders and poachers out of places. I see turkeys on large tracts in Lawrence Colbert and limestone plenty. Now Morgan Co is a lost cause. I live in the worse Co in the state for wildlife. Morgan

257, my theory has always been too much disturbance in north AL. It's certainly more developed, with smaller farms than what you see in central and south Al.