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Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: JWC] #1506384
11/03/15 06:46 AM
11/03/15 06:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
C
centralala Offline
14 point
centralala  Offline
14 point
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
Originally Posted By: JWC
Originally Posted By: centralala
Question for JWC: Is your attorney still advising you on where to go from here?


Yes, we are discussing our options


Good decision. May not want to say but I would be curious to what he recommends. Guess that will depend on your goals also. Good luck!!

Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: hallb] #1506411
11/03/15 07:20 AM
11/03/15 07:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,311
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
leroycnbucks Offline
Freak of Nature
leroycnbucks  Offline
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Buc-ee’s Beach Express
Originally Posted By: hallb
Originally Posted By: doekiller
Originally Posted By: centralala
No Daniel, that is not Augustas65. She is Circuit and heard the case first. The appeal went to Augustus65, District judge.

Her and Augustus65 where both appointed by Riley.


That is backwards. He heard is first in district court and then it was appealed to her in circuit court.


And then there's the connection between all of them and how this good ol' boy system works.

Teri Lovell was the Lowndes District judge, Bob Riley appointed her to Circuit when that judge retired. Then he appointed Adrian Johnson aka Augustus_65 to replace her spot on the District. Then Adrian Johnson ran as a Democrat, won the primary obviously b/c he was already in the position, and then ran unopposed in the general election.

Someone please tell me that Augustus_65's daddy isn't Bill Johnson...


Hall, you talking about the Bill Johnson that lives in south Montgomery and is past president of the Alabama Cattlemens Association ?


Proud Army and ALNG veteran
God Bless America!
Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: jawbone] #1506492
11/03/15 08:33 AM
11/03/15 08:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
WmHunter  Offline
14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
Originally Posted By: jawbone
While everybody on here is giving Ole Rusty hell, me included, let's remember one thing. It was due to his truthful testimony that the case went out the door. He could have easily lied and said he saw a muzzle flash and it would have buried those boys. He didn't though, he told the truth and in essence admitted reasonable doubt.

Not patting him on the back, but pointing out that while apparently wrong, he was still truthful about it. A lot of people and officers (or former officers, as it would be) would have gone into CYA mode and lied.

IMO, the biggest fault in this lies at the judges feet. He convicted on speculation and what he thought happened, when there is clearly reasonable doubt.

While everyone is talking about Impersonating a Police Officer, I think the more appropriate criminal avenue to look into is Unlawful Imprisonment.


You know something, I think you make some important points here about Morrow - he COULD have lied about that to firm up the conviction for *something* (I'll address that below), and he didn't. So yeah, some credit to him on that.

It wouldn't surprise me if the man had heard a lot of night shots over the years in the area where he lives and was obviously tired of it and just made a lot of assumptions about the 3 boys that night in question and basically just lost it.

But here is the insane part, and it is not just Morrow and the Distric Judge AJ and Circuit Judge TB who screwed up **royal** -- BUT WHERE IS THE PROSECUTOR in all this???

Seriously, there is NOT ONE THING involved here that had **anything** to do with hunting or wildlife whatsoever. Any lawyer with a pea brain could see that, and you have the prosecutor and two judges (who are also lawyers) who failed to see that obvious fact. IF ANYTHING, meaning looking at the matter from the perspective of Morrow the complaining witness and in a light most favorable to his side of things, there was an attempt to destroy public property, i.e, a stop sign (that obviously didn't happen).

How in the world does a case where the complaining witness Morrow claims they shot at a stop sign become a case where there are three **hunting** related charges??? That part is just insane and I don't see how any lawyer/judge would not immediately pick up on that and say no to the three hunting charges that Morrow swore out. Under Morrow's version of what happened it was an attempt to shoot a stop sign and had nothing to do with hunting/night hunting/etc and the prosecutor and two judges should have nixed the hunting charges in the bud, really the prosecutor himself.


"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: goodman_hunter] #1506502
11/03/15 08:43 AM
11/03/15 08:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
WmHunter  Offline
14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
Originally Posted By: goodman_hunter
It's a sad day on aldeer today, I never would have guessed that one of our own would stoop so low, and to do it against a fellow aldeer brother. Even the weak defense he tried to give of how he would of only charged the one for shooting from the road if they would have just given up their constitutional right and plead guilty. And punishing them to the full extent of the law for not giving up their constitutional rights. Really added insult to injury.


IF that district court judge actually said that, and the evidence of same has been preserved, it would be grounds for being removed from the bench.

The starting point for JWC would be to file a complaint with the Judicial Inquiry Commission:

http://judicial.alabama.gov/jic.cfm

http://judicial.alabama.gov/appl_canons.cfm


"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: WmHunter] #1506512
11/03/15 08:51 AM
11/03/15 08:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,380
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,380
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted By: WmHunter
Originally Posted By: jawbone
While everybody on here is giving Ole Rusty hell, me included, let's remember one thing. It was due to his truthful testimony that the case went out the door. He could have easily lied and said he saw a muzzle flash and it would have buried those boys. He didn't though, he told the truth and in essence admitted reasonable doubt.

Not patting him on the back, but pointing out that while apparently wrong, he was still truthful about it. A lot of people and officers (or former officers, as it would be) would have gone into CYA mode and lied.

IMO, the biggest fault in this lies at the judges feet. He convicted on speculation and what he thought happened, when there is clearly reasonable doubt.

While everyone is talking about Impersonating a Police Officer, I think the more appropriate criminal avenue to look into is Unlawful Imprisonment.


You know something, I think you make some important points here about Morrow - he COULD have lied about that to firm up the conviction for *something* (I'll address that below), and he didn't. So yeah, some credit to him on that.

It wouldn't surprise me if the man had heard a lot of night shots over the years in the area where he lives and was obviously tired of it and just made a lot of assumptions about the 3 boys that night in question and basically just lost it.

But here is the insane part, and it is not just Morrow and the Distric Judge AJ and Circuit Judge TB who screwed up **royal** -- BUT WHERE IS THE PROSECUTOR in all this???

Seriously, there is NOT ONE THING involved here that had **anything** to do with hunting or wildlife whatsoever. Any lawyer with a pea brain could see that, and you have the prosecutor and two judges (who are also lawyers) who failed to see that obvious fact. IF ANYTHING, meaning looking at the matter from the perspective of Morrow the complaining witness and in a light most favorable to his side of things, there was an attempt to destroy public property, i.e, a stop sign (that obviously didn't happen).

How in the world does a case where the complaining witness Morrow claims they shot at a stop sign become a case where there are three **hunting** related charges??? That part is just insane and I don't see how any lawyer/judge would not immediately pick up on that and say no to the three hunting charges that Morrow swore out. Under Morrow's version of what happened it was an attempt to shoot a stop sign and had nothing to do with hunting/night hunting/etc and the prosecutor and two judges should have nixed the hunting charges in the bud, really the prosecutor himself.


What about the magistrate that issued the warrants? Can't give them a free pass either.

BTW, when does the season on stop signs open? I've got a few that are nuisances I'd like to take out. If shooting stop signs is hunting, then it must have an open season, right?


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: jawbone] #1506526
11/03/15 09:01 AM
11/03/15 09:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
WmHunter  Offline
14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
Jawbone, that is a big 10-4 on the magistrate who approved the arrest warrants. Who is/was the magistrate?

Have to say this, although she screwed up in this case Circuit Judge Terri Bozeman is a good person and a pretty good judge.


"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: doekiller] #1506564
11/03/15 09:25 AM
11/03/15 09:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
WmHunter Offline
14 point
WmHunter  Offline
14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
Originally Posted By: doekiller
One thing I found interesting in the post that was deleted by the Judge was that the boys didn't testify and defend themselves. That is disturbing to me because, one of the specific rights we have under the constitution of the United States and the constitution and laws of the state of Alabama is the right not to testify. It is also abundantly certain that excersing your right not to testify can not be used against you and should not be considered evidence of guilty. If fact, a defendant in a criminal trial does not have to prove anything, he certainly doesn't have to prove his innocence. He has no burden, the burden is completely on the state to PROVE his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

If the state fails to meet that burden, a defendant is due to be found not guilty.

In this case, it sounds very much like the judges didn't want to upset their friend the ex game warden. They found these boys guilty without any real evidence.

A guilty verdict can be based on circumstantial evidence, but not on speculation or conjuncture.


I'm just now exploring the earlier posts in this thread, and yeah, I agree Doekiller, and I can't believe a judge would actually publicly make such an admission. That is another ground for a complaint with the JIC.


"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson

" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter

Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: WmHunter] #1506588
11/03/15 10:00 AM
11/03/15 10:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,527
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
bill Offline
Freak of Nature
bill  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 24,527
Clarksville, TN /Greenville, ...
Originally Posted By: WmHunter
Originally Posted By: goodman_hunter
It's a sad day on aldeer today, I never would have guessed that one of our own would stoop so low, and to do it against a fellow aldeer brother. Even the weak defense he tried to give of how he would of only charged the one for shooting from the road if they would have just given up their constitutional right and plead guilty. And punishing them to the full extent of the law for not giving up their constitutional rights. Really added insult to injury.


IF that district court judge actually said that, and the evidence of same has been preserved, it would be grounds for being removed from the bench.

The starting point for JWC would be to file a complaint with the Judicial Inquiry Commission:

http://judicial.alabama.gov/jic.cfm

http://judicial.alabama.gov/appl_canons.cfm




Originally Posted By: augustus_65
Now that the matter is final, I am at liberty to comment. I was precluded by the cannon of judicial ethics from commenting until the matter was concluded. As most of you know I am the district judge in Lowndes County. I heard this matter at the district court level and found all three defendants guilty of hunting at night, shooting from a public road and hunting by aid of a motor vehicle. At the trial, the state presented testimony from the retired game warden and the sheriffs deputies that responded to the call. Counsel for the defendants cross examined the witnesses for the state and attacked the former wardens ability to issue the warrants. He testified that he did not sign the warrants in his capacity as an officer but as someone who witnessed a misdemeanor committed in his presence, which is legally correct. After the conclusion of the states case in chief, the defendants had an opportunity to present their case, but instead of presenting any testimony they rested. The defendants did not testify or present any evidence in their defense. The state made a prima facie claim meeting all the elements of each of the charges proving their case beyond a reasonable doubt so I found all three defendants guilty of all three charges and assessed the statutorily prescribed fines. The case was appealed to circuit court where the defendants waived their right to a jury trail and tried the case as a bench trial before the circuit judge. She convicted them as well. The case was the appealed to the Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals which affirmed the convictions. The Supreme Court has now reversed the convictions and rendered the matter meaning that it is final.

I will say that there is still no doubt in my mind that one of the boys fired a rifle from that truck. Had the one who fired the shot accepted responsibility, I would have dismissed all charges against the other two defendants and allowed him to plead to shooting from a public road and dismissed the other two charges. He would have had a $1000 fine and costs to pay and that would have been the end of it.

Last edited by bill; 11/03/15 10:00 AM.

" I do view Jim Waltz as a really good Presidential candidate"
Bama_Earl
Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: WmHunter] #1506594
11/03/15 10:03 AM
11/03/15 10:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,380
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,380
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted By: WmHunter
Jawbone, that is a big 10-4 on the magistrate who approved the arrest warrants. Who is/was the magistrate?

Have to say this, although she screwed up in this case Circuit Judge Terri Bozeman is a good person and a pretty good judge.


That is what I've always heard about Judge Bozeman also. Of course it could have been a procedural matter where she was limited to certain issues on the appeal.

No idea on the magistrate. Typically they are just clerks with no legal training.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: leroycnbucks] #1506596
11/03/15 10:10 AM
11/03/15 10:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,252
Conecuh county
hallb Offline
Booner
hallb  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,252
Conecuh county
Originally Posted By: leroycnbucks
Originally Posted By: hallb
Originally Posted By: doekiller
Originally Posted By: centralala
No Daniel, that is not Augustas65. She is Circuit and heard the case first. The appeal went to Augustus65, District judge.

Her and Augustus65 where both appointed by Riley.


That is backwards. He heard is first in district court and then it was appealed to her in circuit court.


And then there's the connection between all of them and how this good ol' boy system works.

Teri Lovell was the Lowndes District judge, Bob Riley appointed her to Circuit when that judge retired. Then he appointed Adrian Johnson aka Augustus_65 to replace her spot on the District. Then Adrian Johnson ran as a Democrat, won the primary obviously b/c he was already in the position, and then ran unopposed in the general election.

Someone please tell me that Augustus_65's daddy isn't Bill Johnson...


Hall, you talking about the Bill Johnson that lives in south Montgomery and is past president of the Alabama Cattlemens Association ?


Might be the same one. I was thinking of the one that had some involvement in Bob Riley's admin and believe he was from the Montgomery area.

Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: jawbone] #1506628
11/03/15 10:36 AM
11/03/15 10:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
doekiller Offline
Freak of Nature
doekiller  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 33,437
Your mom’s house
Originally Posted By: jawbone
Originally Posted By: WmHunter
Jawbone, that is a big 10-4 on the magistrate who approved the arrest warrants. Who is/was the magistrate?

Have to say this, although she screwed up in this case Circuit Judge Terri Bozeman is a good person and a pretty good judge.


That is what I've always heard about Judge Bozeman also. Of course it could have been a procedural matter where she was limited to certain issues on the appeal.

No idea on the magistrate. Typically they are just clerks with no legal training.


An appeal from district court to circuit court is a de novo appeal. That means that nothing that happened in district court matters. It is as if the case starts over in circuit court.

Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: jawbone] #1506661
11/03/15 10:52 AM
11/03/15 10:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,086
Selma
odocoileus Offline
14 point
odocoileus  Offline
14 point
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,086
Selma

Originally Posted By: jawbone


BTW, when does the season on stop signs open? I've got a few that are nuisances I'd like to take out. If shooting stop signs is hunting, then it must have an open season, right?

I call first chance to take out the one on Hooper Drive.

Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: odocoileus] #1506697
11/03/15 11:19 AM
11/03/15 11:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,380
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,380
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted By: odocoileus

Originally Posted By: jawbone


BTW, when does the season on stop signs open? I've got a few that are nuisances I'd like to take out. If shooting stop signs is hunting, then it must have an open season, right?

I call first chance to take out the one on Hooper Drive.


No hunting, of any kind or method, in the city limits.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: doekiller] #1506701
11/03/15 11:22 AM
11/03/15 11:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,380
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,380
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted By: doekiller
Originally Posted By: jawbone
Originally Posted By: WmHunter
Jawbone, that is a big 10-4 on the magistrate who approved the arrest warrants. Who is/was the magistrate?

Have to say this, although she screwed up in this case Circuit Judge Terri Bozeman is a good person and a pretty good judge.


That is what I've always heard about Judge Bozeman also. Of course it could have been a procedural matter where she was limited to certain issues on the appeal.

No idea on the magistrate. Typically they are just clerks with no legal training.


An appeal from district court to circuit court is a de novo appeal. That means that nothing that happened in district court matters. It is as if the case starts over in circuit court.


Thank you, that is why we keep you around. So they went through the same thing twice and still got the same result? That really is amazing.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: JWC] #1506733
11/03/15 11:49 AM
11/03/15 11:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,316
Cherokee Co. Al.
B
bgarrett Offline
8 point
bgarrett  Offline
8 point
B
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,316
Cherokee Co. Al.
While I haven't committed on this I did copy his statement and placed it on the local paper facebook page. Lowndes signal.


It's not a Passion, it's an Obsession. That's what I tell my wife, but she promptly informs it's a disease to which is incurable.
Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: bgarrett] #1506850
11/03/15 01:48 PM
11/03/15 01:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 44,350
North Alabama
W
Wiley Coyote Offline
Freak of Nature
Wiley Coyote  Offline
Freak of Nature
W
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 44,350
North Alabama
Originally Posted By: bgarrett
While I haven't committed on this I did copy his statement and placed it on the local paper facebook page. Lowndes signal.


He dead.



Get the F out of the BATFE. The F is guaranteed by the US Constitution. Those other letters are not.


NRA Life Member
Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: JWC] #1506919
11/03/15 02:39 PM
11/03/15 02:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
Bamabucks14 Offline
12 point
Bamabucks14  Offline
12 point
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,050
Fayetteville, Tennessee
BAM


"Here, take this land mine and protect your property with it."
-Ron Swanson
Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: bgarrett] #1506933
11/03/15 02:44 PM
11/03/15 02:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,484
Bham
D
Dallas County Offline
Booner
Dallas County  Offline
Booner
D
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,484
Bham
Originally Posted By: bgarrett
While I haven't committed on this I did copy his statement and placed it on the local paper facebook page. Lowndes signal.

It's not showing up now. We should light that page up.


not sure what the best way to handle them is but they shouldnt be on tv and gettn married and raisin kids

Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: JWC] #1506973
11/03/15 03:22 PM
11/03/15 03:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,220
Chelsea, AL
J
josht101 Offline
8 point
josht101  Offline
8 point
J
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,220
Chelsea, AL
How come that Facebook page (Alabama Hunting Laws) is no longer active?

Last edited by josht101; 11/03/15 03:23 PM.
Re: Anybody have a similar experience ?? [Re: josht101] #1506982
11/03/15 03:27 PM
11/03/15 03:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,380
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Offline
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,380
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted By: josht101
How come that Facebook page (Alabama Hunting Laws) is no longer active?


You'll have to ask 49er.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
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