Evolution is crazy and its nuts how small factors can make rapid changes .

The never going to be solved comment was in reference to his comment about overharvest and predators on a wide scale that he was hoping could be fixed through voting and legislation. And no, you are not going to bring quail back widespread for the masses through just voting and legislation. Now, if he's got several thousand acres and a pile of cash you can hook him up That's a different story and was solved probably even before the 80's !

I'm not referring to quail , I'm referring to deer just using quail as an example that evolution changes things and sometimes right before our eyes . I was taking with my dad earlier about these things dad is getting up in age now , but back in the day he rabbit hunted a lot . Had his pic on the from page of GON one time for some prize trail beagles he had .. Small game use to be the thing . People didn't use to care to much about deer hubting from what I ubderstand ?

Cause there weren't any! Not technically evolution and overharvest has nothing to do with it. The southeast was clearcut in the early decades of the 1900's. In that open environment, subsistence hunters (farmers) killing for their families and for sale to the big cities, killed all the deer and turkeys (in addition to all the coons, possums, snakes and hawks) and ate them all! There were MORE people living across rural landscapes then than now - WAY more and they farmed small patches, and not very well - very weedy. They also burned EVERY spring to keep the ticks and snakes down - without firelanes! That regrowing, and predator free, environment is the same one that allowed quail and rabbits to flourish, which they did through the 1960's and 70's. It was an incredible ARTIFICIAL high! Perfect combination of factors. Its a deer/turkey environment now

Makes sense, habitate loss was probably over 50% of the reason they nearly vanished . Predators hunting and other factors made up the rest I guess .

The whole Southeast or just coastal plains?

Wasn't there, a little early for me - don't you remember? I think it extended well into the mountains and Piedmont, just at different times. Obviously terrain limited access and hardwood vs pine was used at different times but I think most of the accessible southeast suffered the same fate! I don't know the nat history of the Appalachian well! I am pretty good with my natural history of quail though and know that the population spike occurred as far north as Ohio and Pennsylvania and that Missouri/Tennessee/Virginia area had good quail populations in the mid 1900's. They have also suffered the same declines since the '60's.

Gobbler I heard someone talking the other day about what I gathered was Finch Eye Disease or something similar contributing to the decline of quail. Heard anything about that?

The habitat around our farm was the same in 2000 that it was in 1980. In 1980 we consistently had 2 covies of quail that could be found on our place. By 2000 you never heard one whistle.

Yea, it was an eyeworm that was being blamed for the quail decline in Texas... until it rained and now they have more blues and bobs than they have had in a long time. In reality, very few habitats look the same now compared to 1980. Unless it is a grassland and burned or mowed, it changes. Trees grow, shade develops, crops change, gums come up, thinnings occur, fields get encroached on, etc. Habitat changes - natures way!

I'm gonna assume that could also be a factor in deer herd size as well?

I've seen first hand that wild quail can be restored with alot of time, money, and acreage in south Alabama. We actually had 3 big wild covies on our place until the pines got too tall and were thinned without burning. Deer, on the other hand, I don't think can be restored with the current harvest regulations and quantity of predators. I don't think improving timber/paper company habitat would make a difference. It would just make it easier for the ones that '' need some meat '' or '' just want to choot somefin '' to kill even more deer.

This is what I've been loosing sleep over at night and trying to wrap my head around to figure out what could happen, Thanks for all the responses and it's shined new light on my thinking.

I would agree. Habitat is the key

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I guess being that the deer is more adaptable to a variety of habitats, it will not be under near the pressure as the quail , I've learned a lot on this site , but I still believe we don't need but MUST cut back on harvest , and look at ways to keep predators under control. Do any of you have any exsperience with hound hunting for coyotes and it's effectiveness ?

Hound hunting for coyotes died with QDM.
Alabama is unique from other States in the fact that if a dog barks on a property, all the deer on that property either die or leave to never come back. And, with the large territories that coyotes and foxes have, there are few properties large enough to have a relative assurance that the race will never leave it. So, the hound hunters resorted to building large fenced enclosures to run their dogs in. And, nowadays, due mostly to cost and the lack of allure of running in a 'pen', the Sport has basically died.

Yes I read though where with a little media coverage and a feeling through the general public that coyotes needed to be dealt with that hound hunting for coyotes could be brought back as a means to control them . About How many could you expect to kill in a day in s area with a high population with a pack of hounds ?

If very few wild quail are even being harvested and overharvest is not an issue for driving the ups and downs of a quail population, how would cutting back on harvest change anything? Kinda like lowering the limit on adult gobblers when it has nothing to do with the real problem with the population - reproduction! quail are primarily an annual species, driven predominantly by the reproduction of the summer before. Normally, 80% of the fall population is juveniles born the previous summer.

I would be amazed if anyone reading this killed ONE wild quail last year!

Haven't killed any wild quail here but I do see some pretty regular. I watched a covey of 14 in a food plot and see them several times here on the farm.

I was Referring to deer, thinking that our harvesting to many deer would cause a decline hunters over the coming years therefore leaving less people to look at conservation . We live in a rapid changing world .. And wether we like it or not it's full of regulation and that's not going to change. If the hunters that still hunt continue to harvest at the rate they do and the rapid spread of coyotes, continues on the pace it's on for the next 5 , 10, 20 years .. Where will we be ??
You must have quail hunted quite a bit at one time , how long did it take fir them to get to where it was no longer enjoyable to hunt them ? Was it all of sudden one season you noticed it , or was it just gradually over a decade or two .