If the population is 400k, and we could save 2000 gobblers by lowering the season limit - then we've saved 0.5% of the population. And that would be all males. Not egg layers.

Two solid years of poult production and this unnecessary panic would be a distant memory.

That's where the focus should be.

Getting back to the subject of this thread, explain how saving 2,000 gobblers out of the harvest each year would "help the overall population". Understanding that the population would be 2,000 more out of a population of 400,000. What difference would 2,000 make out of 400,000 (one HALF of one percent more!!!) Would these extra gobblers "help the population" increase somehow?

The premise the State is presenting is that we are having a decline in numbers (as are ALL turkey States) caused by lowered reproduction and poult recruitment. Factors responsible for this are speculatied (correctly in my opinion) to be weather, predators and habitat changes. So PCP posed the question as to HOW lowering the harvest of adult gobblers will change this reproduction problem? I heard one of the CAB members discuss this same issue: We are having a decline, It is caused by lowered reproduction factors and the reasons for lowered reproduction are weather, predators and habitat, therefore we want to limit harvest of adult gobblers!! Makes NO sense to me!

I see what your saying but the problem is, the birds that survive the gun of the "limit hunter", may in turn fall to the guy that usually shoot 2 of 5 every year. It would be hard to get a good estimate imo.

I LOVE PCP's philosophy: We have the BEST turkey population, turkey hunting and turkey hunters in the WORLD. Other States should be emulating us, not the other way around. The DCNR should be proud of what it has helped create and not try to tinker with it.

Sounds like a good day for an internet debate

Hope Matt gets in too, I think PCP is still waiting for the numbers of limits killed in AL each year and I am waiting for an explanation to the thread subject, both of which I thought he was going to address

Here are some cut and pastes from the NWTF website on what affects turkey population. Notice nothing is said about bag limits. And notice is says that it is normal for turkey populations to swing up and down. Now granted, the NWTF is funded by us hunters and they are in the business of creating turkey habitat so maybe they are persuaded to not mention bag limits so FWIW.....

It’s a dog-eat-dog world out there, but it is normal for turkey populations to swing up and down. Here are three threats to turkey populations.

Loss of prime turkey habitat via development and lack of proper land management negatively impact nesting success
Efficient nest predators such as raccoons and opossums are more of a threat to turkeys than coyotes, but crows and ravens are the biggest avian nest predators
Cold, wet spring weather affects poult survival and short-term population swings
Wildlife populations exist within a dynamic interplay involving other species competing for resources within their environment and Mother Nature. Most species rely on human intervention to ensure habitat exists where creatures can live and thrive


When the National Wild Turkey Federation was founded in 1973, there were approximately 1.5 million wild turkeys in North America. After 40 years of effort, that number has reached a historic high of about 6.7 million turkeys.

But, today turkey numbers are down and are estimated at between 6 and 6.2 million birds. Why has the overall turkey count dropped 15 percent? These recent declines may not be long-term, but they do warrant close monitoring.

Here are four facts that researchers find may be the cause for decline:

Production, not predation, drives turkey populations
With high population densities, a significant number of hens won’t access quality nesting habitat and may not successful hatch or raise a brood
Carrying capacity becomes an issue, productivity is declining because hens are nesting in suboptimal habitat
Vegetation measurements contribute to the success or failure of nesting sites… little vegetation means little chance at poult survival
It seems that in some areas birds have reached carrying capacity and have declined as the capacity of the habitat to support a certain number of birds has declined. If the habitat conditions decline across multiple counties and states, then birds have no choice but to decline with it.

I really think we are all looking in the wrong places.

Regarding declining turkey numbers, the effect of predators is the real culprit. If you want to get serious about turkey numbers then you have to get serious about predator control.

It is the same as the deer herd.

Start using ever means available to kill Yotes, coons, and Foxes and you will have more turkeys and deer than you know what to do with.

I know what I'm talking about, my childhood friend is a manicurist.

Did you read above what the NWTF's research has yielded? They believe Production not Predation drives turkey numbers. They're saying the lack of proper habitat is what is causing the decline. Also, humans are deers' problem, not predation from animals.

I can absolutely guaran-damn-tee that the predator apocalypse is coming around here between deer and turkey season.

Yep, I did read it. I hunt every day of turkey and deer season every year.

I find lots of destroyed nests from predators. There was a post here somewhere that showed something like 41/43
(X 12 or so eggs/nest) nests were raided by coons.

How successful is conception in turkeys? How many gobblers will breed the same hen? Do jakes breed? Do turkeys stop breeding on April 30th? Will some hens go unbred? Why isn't there a hen season if taking one or 2 more birds won't make a difference in the over population? Why not increase the limit to 10 gobblers then if only 2% kill more than 1 according to y'all it wouldn't make any difference

Maybe AL turkey hunters should pump the brakes here. Population estimate is at 400,000, which is second only to Texas at 500,000. And Texas is maybe 5x the size of AL. Check out some of the turkey population estimates for other states that are roughly the size of AL.

http://www.nwtf.org/hunt/article/2015-spring-hunt-guide

And Alabama has had a 5 bird limit for how long????? It doesn't stand to reason that bag limits are to blame.

They are in the business of creating HUNTERS AND NWTF MEMBERS NOT habitat, nor more turkeys. Be clear!



What they DON"T say is that one of the MAIN drivers of Production is Predation, on both eggs and poults. They also don't mention poult predation or predators which include HAWKS (conspicuously absent from their discussion!).

Off the top of my head, nest hatch at about a 50/50 rate and most of the 50 that don't hatch get eaten by predators. Poults that do manage to hatch, survive to flight stage, about 2-3 weeks, (when they can escape most ground predators and survival goes WAY up)at about a 30-40% rate. That means 60-70% of the hatched poults die before they can fly and the VAST majority die from being eaten by predators, hawks included. THIS is the driving factor of a population.

Would like to see a turkey season during deer season. I see deer during turkey season and turkeys during deer season! Years ago on Ft. Rucker had 10 mostly hens walk by in morning and back in evening! Come turkey season to many people after them back then. Some areas have bunches in our State other areas need a massive stocking effort!

I agree with everything you said except I would think the survival rate is significantly lower.

Based on what I know:
Conception VERY successful
Sometimes hens will breed more than one gobbler but one gobbler will breed LOTS of hens.
Jakes are usually sexually mature - varies by study and region
Gobblers will breed hens through summer if she is in need of breeding and willing and wants to try another nest
Hens RARELY go unbred
one or 2 hens in the population is TOTALLY different than one or 2 gobblers due to their reproduction biology they are NOT deer. Gobblers don't lay or set on nests not help raise broods. They are strictly breeders and their role in production is mostly finished early in the year. Once hens are bred gobblers are unnecessary to production.
Jacking the limit to 10 would also make very little difference to the Statewide population IMO. As long as it was 10 gobblers. Allowing hens to be harvested would make a HUGE difference in the population.

I would like to see the daily limit go away.

Spot on again.

I could have killed probably 20 hens last year (No Lie)

Yep, yep and yep.

I'll add - conception does not equal poult survival.
And I believe jakes in the south breed a lot.