Come on now...I'm just saying there would be more nesting cover. That's a fact. This is something we can see and evaluate. No cover/nesting habitat equals fewer turkeys regardless how it's created. And there are areas where that is a limited resource like it or not. You add lower production to relatively decent predation, disease, hunting or whatever mortality you want to list and you get a downward trend.

I won't attribute it to one individual thing Matt. I simply gave an example of one thing and that was a type of habitat loss. They come in all shapes and sizes. I assume you had rather I say the building of all those subdivisions in north central AL, or blame it on poultry around here. Heck we hear it all but we can only deal with what we know. Habitat, turkeys, and to a MUCH LESSER degree hunters.

I'm curious why you think those aren't factors we consider? Despite common thought on here we're not idiots you know

Some things are very tough for the "state" to have an active role in. However, I think in the near future you'll see us getting out in front of issues just like this and trying to educate the public on how to help themselves.

I just want to ask this, Why do y'all keep coming up with the state changing the limit or the season? It seems to me that y'all are subject to having information I don't. Y'all are saying these things as if they're going to happen. Where do you base these opinions from?

exactly...If everyone would get off their asses and kill every damn coon, opossum, fox, yote etc... they could you would see almost instant rewards in your local flock and herd.

Take the time between deer and turkey seasons for example.

It really makes my blood boil to hear guys eagerly wait for deer season all year; put the the time in to hang stands, plant, bush hog (Which destroys lots of nests), cut shooting lanes blah blah blah... Then bitch and complain about too many yotes and not enough deer and turkeys.

My question is how many guys actively work on predator control? I aint talking about sitting in your stand and shooting the odd yote either.

I especially love it when the QDMA guys are quoting stats etc.

Matt is absolutely right that the predators and habitat loss is the land owners problem.

What are you gonna do about it?

I don't know. I don't start the discussions, I just comment when they start.

Apparently, some are worried about it happening, and some think it will help a problem. When a problem exists that has a lot of emotion involved, folks will cling to any answer they think may help.

And then in my case - I know it wouldn't help or hurt where I currently hunt. I can basically prove that based on the past 5 years hunting and working there.

I think it's a knee jerk fear because it is a cost free arbitrary solution so that the bureaucrats can say they are trying "Everything" with their limited budget.

Not saying I agree but that may be an explaination.

Fellows, I got behind working late and then driving to cabelas to pick up a new turkey shootin' gun...

A few pages back y'all were on shortened seasons and possible impacts to populations. I'm new to AL but there is a shorter season on the Black Warrior WMA and, in parts of Cullman County, it is something like 5 days long. Has a positive impact been achieved in these instances or is it too early to tell?

Nothing.. because I don't own any land.

If your dead set on protecting male turkeys and believe they are getting completely killed out by hunters before they have a chance to breed......then I see a case for more regulations. You could protect jakes for instance and they could do the breeding...... Win win as the hens get bred by jakes and you just shoot toms. Personally I don't believe this is the case in many places. To be honest the #'s where I hunt are actually the exact same as they were 10 years ago. Predadation, habitat practices, and bad "hatch" weather are all at play and none are solely to blame, however when combined they can make an impact. Also remember that Alabama isn't the only state seeing a down turn in turkey population..... Many states, some with very restrictive harvest, are seeing the same turkey issues described by some here. A few dry and warm springs could turn around a failing population fast..... Put dust in the predators noses and keep the pneumonia out of the poults lungs. But until this happens trap like heck and improve the habitat

Probably because you said that if the state reduced the limit from 5 to 3 it would save 12% of the turkey population each year.

I'm seriously baffled that after spending time and money and state resources on this top secret turkey project that these are the types of answers you guys are coming up with. I've not heard anybody from the state mention a single time coming up with a program to reward the landowners for improving their habitat..... When 83% of this state is privately owned

From what I've read so far, the state would have been much better off just handing out a leg trap with the purchase of a hunting license

Brent this whole debate started long before I joined it. My comments had nothing to with the reason ppl are asking these questions.

Why don't we protect Jake's? I would think that would lead to higher hunter satisfaction because there should be more gobbling turkeys in the woods.

From our surveys and WMA harvest data not enough jakes are killed to make a difference.

I've personally yet to see a rule or regulation stop a "killer" from killing what they want & the amount of what they want. IMO, there are hunters & killers. Hunters "get" that killing a bunch of jakes is stupid.

10-4

And some folks and their kids are satisfied with shooting a jake and leaving the mature, crafty birds for the expert turkey hunters.

NH my comment was not directed towards you or Matt. I do greatly appreciate yawls research and input!!

I may be way off base but from what I am hearing the state is looking at reducing the limit, shorting the season or both? I'm sure they did consider the above items I pointed out, however the cheaper and way easier fix for the state is make a bag limit adjustments or shorten the season. In my opinion they can do that with little expense to a broke DCNR department. As it has been pointed out and in my personal opinion, those two changes will have little to no noticeable effect on the population. It's a feel good type change and does not address the real problems. My comment about the state not considering those factors was foolish, should have been stated it's foolish of the state not to address the real issue rather than take the cheap way out.

We have other issues greater than season length and bag limits. Sure it's a contributing factor and I can believe that. However, it's not the issue that needs addressing as first priority. As stated above shorting the season and bag limit will have no effect on the area I hunt. I already reduce the amount of turkeys I kill and the pressure on the property I hunt. It has had little to no effect on the population recovering. These birds have everything they need to flourish and they aren't. My personal thoughts are predators and the use of chicken litter on this particular property has caused the decline.

I don't know what the state can do to help address the issues many have pointed out. I feel as though it is a highly complex problem that will take a lot of buy in from everyone involved to make the changes that will show progress in population increase.

What government regulations would you like to see from the State to reward landowners?

I can help with this - jakes made up 2% of the harvest in 2014. We don't need a law to protect jakes; hunters have decided on their own that they don't wanta shoot them. And with no law against it, it still allows a kid to kill one for his first turkey. I was sure glad of that myself back in 1966.

Matt, your question as to why so many of us think a change is coming kinda surprises me. If one had nothing except your comments on aldeer they would likely think that change is coming. You have been posting things for at least a year that told us we need to expect change. And in this very thread you went so far as to say this:

>>>Human related mortality is a huge contributing factor to declining turkey populations. Ignoring this is foolish. Not making a change is foolish. <<<

You are in a position to know what is going to happen, probably more than anyone who posts on the forum. If you are willing to say its foolish not to change things, that sure indicates change is coming. If its not, then you are calling your employer foolish on a public forum, and I think you are too smart to do that.

I would think change is coming if all I did was read aldeer. We've seen the appointment of a study committee that is gonna come back with recommendations. I've seen this movie before regarding deer. Committees like this never come back and recommend status quo; that would make their very existence look like a waste of money. They will wanta change something.

I also hear "rumors" from other places of change coming. Admittedly, some of them have already been proven false. One that supposedly came from a CAB member was that a limit reduction would happen for this coming season. I haven't followed up on that source. I have heard from more than one person that the nwtf is pressuring the state to reduce the limit. I was told 3 years ago that they were pressuring both SC and AL to reduce the limit. SC has already folded. It sure looks like AL will too. Please tell me if I am wrong!

As for those saying that the state is never gonna pay for any habitat improvement, you need to educate yourself on this. Both the state and federal governments have many programs to promote wildlife enhancements on private property. I have personally gotten money under the WHIP and CSP federal programs for the purpose of creating and maintaining wildlife habitat. I've also gotten money under 2 different programs funded by the dcnr. I'm not sure if the state money came out of their budget or if they got it from the feds and just administered it, but it spent all the same.

Of course, they never footed the whole bill. I still had to come up with a match, but their money certainly helped. Bottom line - any landowner who wants to produce more turkeys can get assistance from the government to do it. It is not a fairly tale or pixie dust; these programs already exist and the money is available. And with 78% of the state's forest in private hands, don't tell me it isn't possible for us to make a difference. If you don't own any land - buy some! Stop spending your extra money on out-of-state turkey hunting and use it to buy land in AL!

No sure way to cure the problem in the State as a whole. To say the State could pass laws to bring populations back up is arguable because they don't have the man power to enforce current laws.
My obsession with turkey drove me to the point I started raising for the enjoyment and education of the species. In three years of raising them I've learned that getting a poult from hatching to 8 weeks old borderlines child rearing. I live in a rural area with a low wild turkey population but what I've seen happen is my wild turkey population has increased by large bounds. Only difference is I've killed anything that tries to kill my pet turkeys. I keep traps set year round, during nesting season I bait live traps with an egg from my hens and kill whatever gets it. Long story short I'm not saying what others haven't but I've seen a big turn around from killing nest predators alone. Coupled with a few good spring weather conditions we could see a good bounce back. I just hope we don't wind up like quail hunters and having to hunt pen raised animals.