I don't appreciate you calling everyone smart on here and leaving my name out. I already told you my neighbor works at Winn Dixie, that ought to show how smart I am. If not e=mc2, How's that?

Single smartest response you have ever made. When commodity prices were at there highest farmers began farming every inch of ground. Farmers with track hoes and bulldozers clearing fence rows, tree lines, and draining/drying up marshy areas to gain more area to plant. Not to blame the farmers but the side effect has negatively affected wildlife travel routes, nesting ground and wild seed production.

If 28% of gobblers would be saved if the limit was changed from 5 to 3, that means that roughly 6000 hunters in AL killed a limit every year.

We can only speculate; somebody at the dcnr decided that this info is a matter of national security and must remain classified. Maybe they are afraid the Chinese will get it.

It appears as though Matt Brock has left the building for good based off a thread in the general forum. I hate he felt like this discussion and disagreement was pointed directly at him and the information he shared. I feel like research and time spent in the woods truly does add value to the discussion. Many of us may not be from a 4 year college but our decades spent in the woods and managing for wildlife does have value. That might not make us right with our opinions just as research as been proven not to be right in some cases either. I like to form my opinions on what I'm seeing in my area. I do understand those opinions are not accurate for the entire state. I truly do appreciate his and NH opinion and information they share. I may not agree with everything buts none the less it's appreciated. In the end I just hope the DCNR makes a sound and educated adjustment for areas that need such. If it's a blanket adjustment I'll continue to spend my resources in other states to extend my season after my limit is filled here.

I look at it this way. NH and Brock are fine folks but they unfortunately are victims of this broke ass states problems. They have good ideas and what limited resources they get to work with inhibit finding the true answer to many problems. We deal with this on the farming front too. ACES is a huge freaking joke in this state. That system operates off of 1942 type principles. It does farmers a disservice. So just understand that good folks with good ideas get limited by budget shortfalls. I see the field man like NH and Brock getting blamed when they're doing all they can do with what they got to work with.

Matt I agree with you 100%

Good Post

I totally agree. My Dad bought a small place in the 70's. Back then, it was unheard of to see or hear a turkey. Around 1980 turkeys began to show up. One year they would be everywhere, even for a couple of years. Then they would disappear. I still own/hunt the place. It's a cycle. I don't know why and don't even try to understand it. Two years ago there were no turkeys on it. I hunted yesterday and had 6 longbeards in the food plot. Everything can't be based on science. Nature has a way of working things out. I do think the coyotes and increase in racoon population has had an effect on the turkey population.

I notice the same trend. I think they move around small core areas for a while utilizing whatever food resources are available. After they deplete the resources in one area they will move on to another not too far away.

This thread is impossible to read completely on my phone with all the quoting going on. My experience and opinion is. I've been hunting turkeys for 25 years fairly hard and I can kill a good percentage of turkeys if they're there. Problem is, I've never had a large # of turkeys on my property. Most I've ever killed is 3 and my grandfather killed 3 the same year. So technically I could have limited out if it were just me hunting my place. Most years it's more like 4 total. We have killed several hens by mistake over the years and a jake here or there by my kids. Imo I'd love to see a 2 bird limit with no jakes being legal. I don't know how well jakes can breed vs mature gobblers, so I'm not sure how that would affect population #'s. Jakes are stupid and too easy to kill and that's saying a lot considering how easy 2 yr olds are to kill. I feel about turkeys the way some of y'all felt about bucks before the limit change. Something needs to be done.

Just curious how you kill hens by mistake? I've been killing turkeys for 28 years and have never ever shot a hen intentionally or by mistake. That's just 100% uncalled for.

Me either Matt..nor anyone I hunted with ..even noob clients.

I dont understand that. If the gobbler is next to hens you dont shoot until they separate.

To be honest..even thats never been a problem. It is usually waiting for 2 gobblers coming in together to separate so I or they didnt kill two. Especially around a jake decoy.

well, not exactly...

I knew a guy that once killed a gobbler at 20 yards and found a flopping hen at 50 yards when he got up to retrieve the gobbler, never saw the hen.

another killed a gobbler at 15 yards and killed a hen 30 yards further away and under the hill

I know a fella that killed a gobbler at 10 yards while he was laying prone in a sage field....and killed a jake standing 40 yards away and out of sight.

it happens

It shouldn't happen. I mean I guess if you take careless impatient shots it does happen sounds like to me

We'll actually I centered a one inch sweet gun one time and birds started flopping everywhere. If you guys have never done it, then good for you, but to say it doesn't happen by mistake is foolish. I'm just being honest, imagine that. I don't mean shooting a hen mistaken for a gobbler. I've had several unintended casualties along the way. If I get a shot at a gobbler I'm working I take it, with few exceptions. I will say I've never killed a hen when the gobbler didn't flop too.

spoken like a true know it all with absolutely no knowledge of the circumstances involved. Thank you for yer insightfull input....

Same to you Mr know it all

Sure would have saved this thread from going 9 pages if y'all said in the beginning "I don't want the limit reduced and don't support it". All I have heard is a continued defense of it and telling folks then that nobody is proposing it

Well that and maybe "we're from the government, we're smart, we're on the committees and I wish y'all would just trust us to make good decisions that so seriously impact the sport you love so much" JK



Sure would like to see that data to verify, in my own mind, how it was collected and how valid the info is. Even with an UNLIMITED buck harvest before the limits were implemented, the average deer hunter killed slightly more than 1 buck per hunter (similar to turkeys) and only 18.7 of the harvest was made up of those killing more than 4 bucks, some killed LOTS (5, 6, 7, 9, 10+ reported) of bucks. So you are saying that with a 5 bird limit that nearly 30% of the harvest is made up of birds 4 and 5? I find it hard to believe... but I would believe it if I saw the data. Maybe I should file a Freedom of Information act petition as a citizen of the State and a reporter?

Hey, here is an idea! If we go to an UNLIMITED gobbler limit, we can get the harvest of 4 or more gobblers DOWN to 18.7%? How about that for a proposal - it was working for deer!

I understand late breeders are not as successful but this has been reported in the research FOREVER! I agree that in areas in north AL, lack of gobblers MAY have an impact on successful fertilization, especially late in the hunting season. I have NOT seen this reported anywhere however, just some theories that it is possible.



I don't think you would find NEARLY the opposition to moving the season back to the 20th or so. I was involved in getting this passed so that folks could hunt the daylight savings time a little before work but now they shifted daylight savings back so it doesn't help "the working man" get a couple days early before work. I CAN buy this argument!!

I think the only valid point I see being made regarding lowering the limit to 3 would be that some hens are not being bred and more gobblers in the population late in the season would rectify this. Should be simple to provide some research data showing this! Guaranteed, that is not the problem across the State as a whole. However it still does not address nest and poult survival that, admittedly, is the problem with the turkey population. Nor does it address weather, predators nor habitat that also is, admittedly the causes of the decline.



I looked at the GF thread and am disappointed Matt left. He and NH are a valuable resource on here trying to educate the average hunter. I understand this place can be aggravating, which is why I don't post much, even on threads that interest me. I saw a lot of accusation of bullying and knowing more than the State Bio's... I sincerely hope this thread, and my posts in particular, didn't have anything to do with it. I am passionate about Turkeys, Turkey management and Turkey hunting. However, I have NOT posted ANYTHING that I would not have said sitting in the Turkey Committee meeting across the table from either Matt, NH or any other biologist. My comments and arguments would be EXACTLY the same. Thats why I don't resort to name calling or personal attacks. I am NOT a nameless and faceless poster. Those who want to know who I am either know or can easily find out. Plus I don't want my azz kicked by a younger man Please take any picking I do to you (and Matt) with the friendly ribbing it is intended!

257....so splain how you think any of the ones I mentioned were due to careless impatient shooters....wait, I'll help. You can't because you don't know shucks about ANY of those incidents....do you???