Ted

Who was interviewed?

Pretty much.

I'm just gonna hold out hope that the apparent inevitable limit change is zoned. If the current areas with steady numbers go straight from 5 to 3, then we will all know just how political the whole thing is.

Pm sent

Look guys I just got to brutally honest for a second...

Are any of you on the Southeastern Turkey Working Group, Deer Study Committee, Flyway Council, or countless other boards/groups that we are privileged to sit on? No. Does that make us better or smarter than y'all, nope not one bit. It does however give us access to the most up-to-date data and research in the country. Many times this info is not available to the public and releasing here on public web forum is not the place nor the way to share that info.

I am sorry to say that new research does not particularly agree with the research done years ago when turkey populations were on the rise, it just doesn't. Call up Tall Timbers and ask them.

Matt and I simply try and share info about things we KNOW and also give opinions when asked. Surely by now you guys must understand that you can't always be right. Basically every biologist has left this site because y'all know better.

On top of that, all you folks pitching a fit about all this turkey nonsense have plenty. You ever considered how folks see it from the other side of the fence? Ever thought we're actually smart enough to handle it properly and leave good areas alone? Just some food food for thought. Oh... and good luck sorting this out. Somehow y'all know more about what is going on than we do usually. That rumor mill must be tied in tight with someone on here.

I didn't think you were on the turkey committee?

And more than once you've referenced things that you and Brock KNOW almost like its some kind of classified information; so I'll be blunt: Do you know why the turkey population has dwindled over some parts of the state yet continues to thrive and even grow in other parts ?

That had already been answered Brent and everyone disagreed with Matt. It wasn't his research.

The tactics discussed have also already been put in place in other states and they work.

You are correct on all counts.

And I will admit there's some fear about a sharp, statewide limit cut. I don't really know where it came from, but it is being floated around heavily. I am a pessimist by nature, but will hold out hope for the zoning you are possibly referencing. Simply mentioning that zoning limits will be considered may help calm some folks down. But some of the guys that seem to know more than I do are talking about a 5 to 3 across the board. I wish that didn't cause a feeling of panic - but it does. I'm gonna move forward with hope and trust that zoning is the answer.

You guys can argue all you want I am done. There is no reason to keep it up.

We tried to tell you things we understand are occurring and even some that may not be fully understood. We tried to explain the two factors we can influence is seasons and bag limits and what those changes would do and yet we are right back at by God I am getting my 5 come hell or high water.

Good luck guys, hope you enjoy your discussions. You have now lost the people actually will listen to your BS.

Sorry I must have missed where he answered it. I'll read through it again tomorrow.

As far as other states having better turkey laws than Alabama........... How many states actually have more turkeys than Alabama does?

>>>Are any of you on the Southeastern Turkey Working Group, Deer Study Committee, Flyway Council, or countless other boards/groups that we are privileged to sit on? No. Does that make us better or smarter than y'all, nope not one bit. It does however give us access to the most up-to-date data and research in the country. Many times this info is not available to the public and releasing here on public web forum is not the place nor the way to share that info.<<<

Is this is a rhetorical question? I'm sure you know this, but some reading this thread might not know that somebody thought enough of gobbler's credentials to appoint him as chairman of what was probably the most important wildlife study committee in AL in my lifetime.

I'm sure there are people reading this thread that don't know that; thought it oughta be pointed out. So all can ignore me as uninformed idiot, but gobbler's got a little credibility on the subject.

Of course, the really smart biologists work for the state.

PCP will be signing autographs at the door folks. Thanks for coming out tonight!

I don't understand how a couple of people can disagree with you so your attitude is to call the entire discussion thread "BS". Every person to a man that has commented on the thread loves turkey hunting and wants turkeys to thrive. I don't see where that can be referred to as BS.

Nighthunter, I respect you and your (and matts) opinions. I hope you
KNOW that I appreciate yalls input on this issue. I am NOT being an azz but the principal question has NOT been answered here. One which I hoped y'all would answer succinctly. What impact will reducing the limit on adult gobblers have on the population and the reproductive factors that drive a turkey population. Or better said how will reducing the limit help stem the decline. VERY simple question. If none say so!

I not only worked at Tall Timbers for years doing wildlife research but have served on the deer committee that recommended buck limits (as chairman for a spell) so I know not only how these committees work but am good friends with some on the turkey committee. I serve on the turkey committee for the AWF (yes we have one), but most all the other wildlife related committees the AWF has. We are very interested in what Reccs the DCNR turkey committee comes up with as we represent OUR members and hunters of the state too.

The concerns are NOT from just a bunch of ye-haws. Some of us have credentials. I try to read all the secret information too and have plenty of cohorts that work in the field the get me access to current research. The Tall Timbers folks are friends of mine. Believe it or not I have CAB members who call me for advise! I don't care if I ever kill a limit again. But I don't want to see y'all reduce the limit "just because" or because some other states did it. I want a good reason or I will do all I can to fight against it. It has NOTHING to do with me wanting to kill 5. Just like I would be opposed to a reduction in the bag limit for quail. It won't do ANYTHING to stem the REAL problem.

Be careful about being too condescending. None of us are all that important or know it all. Some of us DONT necessarily trust a committee to make good decisions. I'll be on the radio in the morning discussing this as a retort to the cab member. Call in if you want

good food for thought.

LOL - Its hard to sign them over the internet, but I'll be glad to mail one to anyone who would like to have such a valuable document.

I'm thinking of going to the CAB meeting on 2/20, but they won't let you speak but 3 minutes and I doubt anyone would listen. I've done it before; might try again just for fun.

Just be sure to vote for me for governor; that will be the only sure solution.

I feel like the state is basically just throwing darts at a dart board about this issue. I think that the state of AL is a great place to turkey hunt. 99% of us turkey hunters are the real conservationist here. I get the feeling with turkeys as well as deer too many watch shows on TV and think killing a bird or buck is just supposed to fall in your lap. We're outdoorsman. I spend hour upon hour finding where they're at every year and finding new ground. No doubt there's issues in areas but it's not always the sky is falling as many think. I think the future is looking fine based on where I'm seeing birds this fall. I sure do hope it doesn't get all jacked up based on poor info and some biologists theories and here say. Until then I keep doing my part to better my places and hope everyone else does too.

>>>I'll be on the radio in the morning discussing this as a retort to the cab member. Call in if you want <<<<

gobbler - what station? Do you know if there is an internet feed for it?

I'll call in if I can hear it; I sure ain't going deer hunting in this weather. Do you want me to just ask a question or preach the Charles Kelley gospel?

Sports radio 740. Montgomery. Don't know if it's internet available.

Sometimes I can't help myself . For those who don't want to answer, those of us questioning limit reduction should have an opinion on what the state does, its our resource too and just because you don't like or agree with us does not mean our opinion is not valid. For anyone wanting to answer the main thread question (if you can) let me help you. Copy and paste the following line then fill in a sentence or paragraph after:

Lowering the limit on adult gobblers will help increase reproduction, poultry recruitment and increase the overall population of turkeys in Alabama by (fill in from here)

Anyone is welcome to fill in but I would love to get a response from the turkey committee members that have access to the secret info ( just kidding NH, 2 beers talking)

Ted- Since Matt is gone I'll attempt to answer your question as best I can.

And we have never said that we wanted the lmit reduced. Nor did we say that we would support it. Remember, folks have gotten way ahead of themselves here...

As stated I am not on the turkey committee but get to hear a lot of the discussions in my position. I used the proverbial "we" above and shouldn't have.

My understanding of the limit reduction and season shift is...

Reducing from 5 to 3 would save 28% of the gobblers in AL. Matt figured out he misquoted earlier today. Now this doesn't make one hill of beans where there are plenty of turkeys but where the population is limited this could result in hens either breeding late or not at all. Late breeders, if you go by some research aren't as successful.

These population differences are why we look at things in an area specific way.

Another important factor is that most supporting documentation shows a large % of the gobblers harvested are taken in the first few days of the season and then there are peaks and valleys in the harvest rates. This first spike should be when nest initiation is taking place. Most research I've seen lately shows that the earliest nest intiators are usually the most successful. Now, reducing the limit might not reduce the numbers killed early during next initiation but shifting the season would. Supporting documentation also shows that most incidental take of multiple birds and hens occur during the early part of the season as well.

I just don't really want to dive into the model. I can't do it justice by trying to type out what it does.

And I dang sure ain't digging up the literature. I read it, put it in memory, save it if I think I'll need it and move on. I know Brett Collier did one the stats. papers.

Now, that is the just I know other than the modem and I ain't going there. Hope this helps in some way. I'm out.