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Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: Southwood7] #1660759
02/22/16 11:53 AM
02/22/16 11:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,148
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,148
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted By: Southwood7
Originally Posted By: Mbrock
Ok so please understand the CAB can make decisions with or without our input. Those are facts too.


This is the most frustrating part and Im sure it frustrates you more than it does me. From what I understand you and other biologist spend countless days and hours collecting and pouring over data as a part of a turkey committee. Only to have a group of people make season and bag limit changes without any input from the biologist our state employs. Glad your back.


Sure wouldn't want them to discriminate against gobblers. They'll screw turkey season up like they did doe season a couple years ago. Ya'll remember..........1 a day statewide. They obviously don't give a hoot what their own biologist tell them.



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: Mbrock] #1660774
02/22/16 12:07 PM
02/22/16 12:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
gobbler Offline OP
12 point
gobbler  Offline OP
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
Originally Posted By: Mbrock
Gobbler, I'm sure if it is something they are considering they will consult the Turkey Committee for our comment, and hopefully some data we could provide. I'm sure that will happen before any decisions are made. The Turkey Committee itself did not provide that recommendation at the meeting. Guess that's why I got so defensive. It all rolls down hill to the guys in uniform. It's very frustrating.


Matt, I understand and sympathize with the position they put y'all in as well. You might want to bow out of the thread now, if not we are GLAD you are involved. This discussion is not just going on here on aldeer!! I would hope they consult the Turkey Committee, but would not guarantee it!

Quote:
Only to have a group of people make season and bag limit changes without any input from the biologist our state employs


Part of the frustration, the presentation was made by THE State biologist.

Originally Posted By: Clem

#QuailLivesMustNotMatter


laugh If they really cared about quail, they would have had AU do a study on it, created a Model and recommended a reduction in the bag limit and shorten the season. Habitat, weather and predators don't matter.

Last edited by gobbler; 02/22/16 12:17 PM.

I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: gobbler] #1660782
02/22/16 12:14 PM
02/22/16 12:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,917
North Alabama
Hevishot13 Offline
14 point
Hevishot13  Offline
14 point
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 7,917
North Alabama
Hey Matt and nighthunter, good to hear from ya! thumbup

Don't be strangers! smile

Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: gobbler] #1660864
02/22/16 01:11 PM
02/22/16 01:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,958
LASW
turkey247 Offline
12 point
turkey247  Offline
12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,958
LASW
Let's talk ZONES.

So, if any new regs are put in place - what about zones? We know that populations across the state can be drastically different. We know that some areas have a serious issue, and others do not. The Ag and poultry and people dominated areas of north AL need help. The counties with lower human populations and dominated by timberland (public, private or timber company), don't need a panic button. I'd say there's at least 30 counties that fit the description of the latter, where a limit reduction isn't needed.

But zones are not easy to implement. They work fine for differences in season length, but they are harder to accomplish regarding limits. Like I've stated many times previously, I'm gonna hold out hope for zones. I have a couple ideas how to make zones work regarding limits, but they would be a cost to the state.

So let's here ideas how to make it work.

Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: gobbler] #1660869
02/22/16 01:13 PM
02/22/16 01:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,103
Round ‘bout there
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,103
Round ‘bout there

Cripes, let's re-invent the wheel while we're at it.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: Mbrock] #1660891
02/22/16 01:26 PM
02/22/16 01:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,409
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,409
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted By: Mbrock
Gobbler, I'm sure if it is something they are considering they will consult the Turkey Committee for our comment, and hopefully some data we could provide. I'm sure that will happen before any decisions are made. The Turkey Committee itself did not provide that recommendation at the meeting. Guess that's why I got so defensive. It all rolls down hill to the guys in uniform. It's very frustrating.


Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm glad to hear that the # of limits killed will be included in the future report. I believe it was 7 years ago that I first started asking for the info. If it simply wasn't available then, I can understand why they couldn't tell me. Looks like the guys would have just said that. I could say more, but I'll drop it.

Your irritation with us, and especially me, is understandable. But there is simply no denying that a member of the study committee posted in this forum that it would be "foolish" to not lower the limit. That was the word he used, not me. Get mad if you want to, but how would you expect people to understand that?


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: turkey247] #1661019
02/22/16 02:43 PM
02/22/16 02:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,487
A
Atoler Offline
14 point
Atoler  Offline
14 point
A
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,487
Originally Posted By: turkey247
Let's talk ZONES.

So, if any new regs are put in place - what about zones? We know that populations across the state can be drastically different. We know that some areas have a serious issue, and others do not. The Ag and poultry and people dominated areas of north AL need help. The counties with lower human populations and dominated by timberland (public, private or timber company), don't need a panic button. I'd say there's at least 30 counties that fit the description of the latter, where a limit reduction isn't needed.

But zones are not easy to implement. They work fine for differences in season length, but they are harder to accomplish regarding limits. Like I've stated many times previously, I'm gonna hold out hope for zones. I have a couple ideas how to make zones work regarding limits, but they would be a cost to the state.

So let's here ideas how to make it work.


For years and years, they broke down doe days by county. Break down season length by county, and leave limits alone. If they get a one week season in limestone county, and 257 goes and kills 5 birds in that week, then there wasn't too much of a population problem where he was hunting.....

Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: gobbler] #1661024
02/22/16 02:48 PM
02/22/16 02:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
Hey pal there aren't 5 birds in all of limestone county shocked. But I like the way you think!

Last edited by 257wbymag; 02/22/16 02:49 PM.

Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: gobbler] #1661031
02/22/16 02:52 PM
02/22/16 02:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,142
North Jackson
R
ridgestalker Offline
Booner
ridgestalker  Offline
Booner
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,142
North Jackson
Tn does it by the county.


"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #1661033
02/22/16 02:53 PM
02/22/16 02:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,121
Right behind you
Mbrock Online content
Fancy
Mbrock  Online Content
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,121
Right behind you

Originally Posted By: poorcountrypreacher
Originally Posted By: Mbrock
Gobbler, I'm sure if it is something they are considering they will consult the Turkey Committee for our comment, and hopefully some data we could provide. I'm sure that will happen before any decisions are made. The Turkey Committee itself did not provide that recommendation at the meeting. Guess that's why I got so defensive. It all rolls down hill to the guys in uniform. It's very frustrating.


Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm glad to hear that the # of limits killed will be included in the future report. I believe it was 7 years ago that I first started asking for the info. If it simply wasn't available then, I can understand why they couldn't tell me. Looks like the guys would have just said that. I could say more, but I'll drop it.

Your irritation with us, and especially me, is understandable. But there is simply no denying that a member of the study committee posted in this forum that it would be "foolish" to not lower the limit. That was the word he used, not me. Get mad if you want to, but how would you expect people to understand that?


Are you sure that committee member didn't say it would be foolish to do nothing? If science backs lowering the limit then I'd be for it. If science backs shifting the season I'd be for it. If I honestly said not lowering the limit would be foolish I misspoke. I'm sure I meant to say ignoring the decline(it's real not perceived) and not being proactive is foolish. And it is.

Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: gobbler] #1661041
02/22/16 02:59 PM
02/22/16 02:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,175
Montgomery / Luverne
crenshawco Offline
Booner
crenshawco  Offline
Booner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,175
Montgomery / Luverne
Matt, would you say that the decline is being experienced in some regions but not others? The reason I ask is I personally haven't seen it throughout several counties in South Central AL. Obviously this skews my opinion and it sounds like there very well may be issues in the northern half of the state.

Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: gobbler] #1661049
02/22/16 03:07 PM
02/22/16 03:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
Turkeys can't live in the Tn valley of N bama. Everybody knows that.


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: 257wbymag] #1661052
02/22/16 03:09 PM
02/22/16 03:09 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,759
Harvest, AL
AU coonhunter Offline
10 point
AU coonhunter  Offline
10 point
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,759
Harvest, AL
Originally Posted By: 257wbymag
Hey pal there aren't 5 birds in all of limestone county shocked. But I like the way you think!


Yea there are, they are just few and far between.

Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: gobbler] #1661053
02/22/16 03:09 PM
02/22/16 03:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 943
Piney Ridge
G
Gobl4me Offline
6 point
Gobl4me  Offline
6 point
G
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 943
Piney Ridge
I was working for the Arkansas game and fish commission when the drastic decisions to cut season back from a month to 2 weeks ( starting mid April) and eliminate fall season all together happened. The overall state turkey biologist went ballistic because the decision was made against the advice of the biologists. I shared a room with him and it wasn't pretty. I hope the politicians and big money will stay out of it and allow the biologists to make the right/informed decision for Alabama- this decision should be well thought out because once season is cut and the limit is cut it will NEVER come back.

Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: gobbler] #1661055
02/22/16 03:13 PM
02/22/16 03:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,635
East Alabama
M
MorningAir Offline
8 point
MorningAir  Offline
8 point
M
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,635
East Alabama
I don't think there are very many people with full time jobs that kill a limit every year. Now, a retired guy, or guy who doesn't work, or who has a job where he can hunt every day, has a good chance to do it every year. The only benefit to lowering the limit, would be more birds for people who can only go on the weekends, and only have a few vacation days per 45 day season. You won't ever find somebody unemployed or retired complaining about the limit. In 26 years, I'll want the limit at 10.

As far as moving the season into May, it may help, there seem to be more birds across the river in Georgia, but there's also better habitat, so it would be hard to say whether or not Georgia's season has an impact on the population??? Hard to say the season dates have any impact.

Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: 257wbymag] #1661066
02/22/16 03:25 PM
02/22/16 03:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
Land of dixie
R
Rockhound Offline
6 point
Rockhound  Offline
6 point
R
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 854
Land of dixie
Originally Posted By: 257wbymag
Turkeys can't live in the Tn valley of N bama. Everybody knows that.


The hundreds upon hundreds we had for years was just a fluke I suppose

Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: Rockhound] #1661072
02/22/16 03:28 PM
02/22/16 03:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,103
Round ‘bout there
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,103
Round ‘bout there
Quote:
Originally Posted By: 257wbymag
Turkeys can't live in the Tn valley of N bama. Everybody knows that.



I'm starting to think they can't live in Morgan County.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013

"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: Rockhound] #1661077
02/22/16 03:30 PM
02/22/16 03:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451
North Alabama
YEKRUT Offline
Turkey Nut
YEKRUT  Offline
Turkey Nut
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 32,451
North Alabama
Originally Posted By: Rockhound
Originally Posted By: 257wbymag
Turkeys can't live in the Tn valley of N bama. Everybody knows that.


The hundreds upon hundreds we had for years was just a fluke I suppose


He should have put one of them winking emotions on that statement I guess.


Some men are mere hunters; others are turkey hunters. —Archibald Rutledge—
Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: MorningAir] #1661081
02/22/16 03:31 PM
02/22/16 03:31 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
gobbler Offline OP
12 point
gobbler  Offline OP
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
Originally Posted By: MorningAir
I don't think there are very many people with full time jobs that kill a limit every year. Now, a retired guy, or guy who doesn't work, or who has a job where he can hunt every day, has a good chance to do it every year. The only benefit to lowering the limit, would be more birds for people who can only go on the weekends, and only have a few vacation days per 45 day season. You won't ever find somebody unemployed or retired complaining about the limit. In 26 years, I'll want the limit at 10.

As far as moving the season into May, it may help, there seem to be more birds across the river in Georgia, but there's also better habitat, so it would be hard to say whether or not Georgia's season has an impact on the population??? Hard to say the season dates have any impact.


UGA is doing a study to see why the turkey populations are declining also - in a state with a limit of 3 and a later start. However, OUR computer models say that a lower limit and later season will result in an increase in turkeys. I know it is hard to see Georgia from Auburn but that is kinda like the weather man making a forecast for sunny without looking out the window and seeing it is raining.


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Somebody make a biological case for a later season or lower limit? [Re: gobbler] #1661083
02/22/16 03:31 PM
02/22/16 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
257wbymag Offline
Boo Boo Head
257wbymag  Offline
Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
Yes I should have! Sorry


Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!!
My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty
I'm the paterfamilias
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