22.250
by Morris. 01/08/25 09:40 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
LFGB
by UAbuckhunter. 01/08/25 08:38 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
144 registered members (William, mcninja, Turberville, Young20, CNC, Mack1, sj22, Lvlhdd, crenshawco, demp17, Dragfan66, Mbrock, RidgeRanger, Coosa1, Old_Grunt, Fishduck, bamacotton, 7PTSPREAD, Solothurn, Stacey, burbank, Spotchaser8, Sixpointholler, TDog93, Crappie, Roondog, 10 POINT, clayk, RSF, Engine5, Thread Killer, jtillery, Beer Belly, sawdust, BurningBright, Darrylcom, CAL, twaldrop4, CeeHawk37, UABCPA, JoeyWommack, Okalona, trailertrash, abolt300, Shaneomac2, jdhunter2011, brushwhacker, booner, AU338MAG, Hunting-231, bows_and_does, Backwards cowboy, Bowfish, Longtine, just_an_illusion, 000buck, ALMODUX, KnightRyder, AL18, beeline08, Khitzeman, DGAMBLER, deerfeeder89, rhino21, RAmerica, odocoileus, GoldenEagle, BhamFred, T-hatchie, GomerPyle, cartervj, mjs14, TideWJO, Paint Rock 00, Floorman1, mdf, mathews prostaff, kyles, Canterberry, PanolaProductions, slim68, Dixiepatriot, dwaugh, MAG, TurkeyJoe, GATA87, BradB, Holcomb, Showout, BC_Reb, Lhop13, Chickenrig, Brian_C, catdoctor, quickshot, Overland, JB71, WPZJR, paulfish4570, Jwoods32, CGR, ts1979flh, robinhedd, Moose24, BigEd, Sself161, Landbroker, GHTiger10, klay, CB5121, Sgiles, MarkCollin, Noler_Swamp, Turkey_neck, hunter84, BC, Acorn, trlrdrdave, Weedpicker, doublefistful, fish_blackbass, C3SEAST, Standbanger, Reaper, thayerp81, Mdees, Beadlescomb, JDW25, 16 invisible),
2,552
guests, and 0
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: timbercruiser]
#1759994
06/13/16 03:25 PM
06/13/16 03:25 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,838 Parts Unknown
Cletus
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,838
Parts Unknown
|
Nothing, they will study the information for 5 or so years and then determine that further changes in the Game Check is necessary for further study. Another 5 or so year study, repeat. This is the answer..........but I say it won't take 5 years before the data gathered is deemed less valid than the hunter surveys. Then the tags will be pushed harder. It's kind of like making a push for single payer healthcare..........it can't be done all at once.........it has to be incrementally.
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: Cletus]
#1760017
06/13/16 03:43 PM
06/13/16 03:43 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,027 USA
Remington270
OP
Freak of Nature
|
OP
Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,027
USA
|
Nothing, they will study the information for 5 or so years and then determine that further changes in the Game Check is necessary for further study. Another 5 or so year study, repeat. This is the answer..........but I say it won't take 5 years before the data gathered is deemed less valid than the hunter surveys. Then the tags will be pushed harder. It's kind of like making a push for single payer healthcare..........it can't be done all at once.........it has to be incrementally. Absolutely agree. I'd like to see results in other states before I get behind this. Can anyone produce such results? Or are we re-inventing the wheel?
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: Atoler]
#1760105
06/13/16 10:40 PM
06/13/16 10:40 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780 central ala,
centralala
14 point
|
14 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
|
I am no biologist but just from the numbers you gave I would say Dallas county was basically unchanged if you were to chart it out on an SPC chart but something was possibly causing a negative trend in Winston county. At which time I would use my resources to further investigate Winston county's deer herd and it's health instead of not knowing there may be a problem there until it was too late and would then have to take drastic measures to reverse..... with the data and a little more investigation I may find nothing or I may find I need to adjust something to stabilize or increase the deer population. How do you know it's not just lower hunter participation? Licenses won't tell you where a person actually hunts. There's all kinds of data you can draw from. Total kill numbers yes, sex of kills, yes, but also date of kill, hunter success by license, hunter success by sex, etc I believe that year to year your avg hunter success will be just as telling as total harvest in a county. To simplify, if the avg entry by hunter, in Winston county is 1 buck, 3 does the first year, then 5 years later that has steadily decreased to .5 buck, 1 doe, it would be obvious there's a significant decrease in quantity, unless regulations changed. That could also be very telling, when the season was broken down into sections, bow season, early gun, mid, late, whenever the rut is, etc. this would tell you whether the deer were there, and just being over pressured, disappearing later in the season. Combine several years of total harvest, Buck/doe harvest ratio, avg success per participant, and when the deer were killed. If you can't paint a pretty accurate picture off that, then you aren't trying. Yes, but the testing sample needs to remain as close as possible for the entire 5 years. In other words as an example, on a five year sample, in year 3 hunting directly over bait becomes legal. This will affect the numbers one way or the other. Laws and rules could remain the same for a 5 year test but there a lot of uncontrollable factors from weather to the economy that can effect harvest numbers. Let me say again, I'm on the fence on the matter and can see valid points from both sides.
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: Remington270]
#1760124
06/14/16 12:28 AM
06/14/16 12:28 AM
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,678 Alabama
Honolua
I'm Honey Lou Lou and I voted for Obama... Twice!!!
|
I'm Honey Lou Lou and I voted for Obama... Twice!!!
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,678
Alabama
|
Mine wouldn't let me register deer last year
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: Remington270]
#1760128
06/14/16 12:46 AM
06/14/16 12:46 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,361
mman
8 point
|
8 point
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,361
|
What the data cannot tell you is how many deer should have been killed.
That percentage is based on what you want to do with the overall deer population, such as increase, maintain, or decrease. Fawn recruitment plays a major factor in this.
It seem there are many pieces in this complicated puzzle that, I for one, am glad that I don't have to try and figure out.
If I see 100 deer in a season and choose only to kill 3, what does the reported data tell you? 3 deer have been killed. If the next year I only see 3 deer and kill them all, what does the reported data tell you? 3 deer have been killed. With many clubs having different standards today than in the past, many deer or young bucks are being passed on that used to would have been killed. I certainly don't have any answers and do not envy those that have to make the decisions. No decision they make will ever be right, in many people's mind. I just enjoy hunting and want this sport to be preserved.
As I've said before, using only harvest data is like trying to drive forward by only looking at your rearview mirror.
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: Remington270]
#1760138
06/14/16 01:05 AM
06/14/16 01:05 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,102 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
|
Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,102
Round ‘bout there
|
Clem, do we want our deer population to go up or down? I think you'd get 575 duzen answers with that question, to be honest. Personally, I don't have to see or want to see 30 or 40 deer every time I go out "like the good ol' days" because I think those numbers were too high. I don't go out to watch deer. If I want to watch deer then I'll go to Cades Cove and have a Red Bull while cruising with Maw-Maw to enjoy wildlife. During hunting season I want to kill what I want and think we need, period, and it does not have to have rack-monster antlers or even any antlers at all. As a state we went from virtually no deer, to "don't shoot does or you'll go to hell" and growing populations, to probably over-populated situations in many areas, to "kill more does" and 2-a-day for maybe too long with predation and disease also affecting mortality, to where we are today ... which is some areas probably OK and some are hurting badly. IF this check-in system is accepted and IF it works with Matt and the other deer biologists obtaining good usable information and IF the lever-pullers and political shitstirrers in Mungumry and elsewhere allow them to make biological-based decisions then it could possibly help. Those are big "if" situations, though I think they're starting to be accepted. Ohio has, as in that earlier post on this thread, a rigid check system and has drilled down to specific counties/zones. Their hunters STILL complain about their deer population. Wisconsin does the same and they have county-by-county groups that meet to discuss deer numbers and suggest things to the state.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: Clem]
#1760157
06/14/16 01:36 AM
06/14/16 01:36 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,027 USA
Remington270
OP
Freak of Nature
|
OP
Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22,027
USA
|
Clem, do we want our deer population to go up or down? I think you'd get 575 duzen answers with that question, to be honest. Personally, I don't have to see or want to see 30 or 40 deer every time I go out "like the good ol' days" because I think those numbers were too high. I don't go out to watch deer. If I want to watch deer then I'll go to Cades Cove and have a Red Bull while cruising with Maw-Maw to enjoy wildlife. During hunting season I want to kill what I want and think we need, period, and it does not have to have rack-monster antlers or even any antlers at all. As a state we went from virtually no deer, to "don't shoot does or you'll go to hell" and growing populations, to probably over-populated situations in many areas, to "kill more does" and 2-a-day for maybe too long with predation and disease also affecting mortality, to where we are today ... which is some areas probably OK and some are hurting badly. IF this check-in system is accepted and IF it works with Matt and the other deer biologists obtaining good usable information and IF the lever-pullers and political shitstirrers in Mungumry and elsewhere allow them to make biological-based decisions then it could possibly help. Those are big "if" situations, though I think they're starting to be accepted. Ohio has, as in that earlier post on this thread, a rigid check system and has drilled down to specific counties/zones. Their hunters STILL complain about their deer population. Wisconsin does the same and they have county-by-county groups that meet to discuss deer numbers and suggest things to the state. That's my point Clem. If the state doesn't even know whether our deer population needs to go up or down, none of this data matters.
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: Remington270]
#1760260
06/14/16 03:16 AM
06/14/16 03:16 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,725 B'ham
Goatkiller
14 point
|
14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,725
B'ham
|
Y'all are whining like a bunch of doe killers that want to hunt over a feeder.
No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: Remington270]
#1760295
06/14/16 04:07 AM
06/14/16 04:07 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494 Jefferson
Fun4all
10 point
|
10 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494
Jefferson
|
It really all boils down to this. The arrogance of government is going to do what the hell it wants to do and there will be enough folks that whine wanting the government to "fix their problem" that the government is more than willing to use force to do what the hell they want. Simple case in point, Chuck Sykes et al arrogantly tried ramming the MANDATORY game check down the public's throat earlier and was rebuffed then he whistles along then does it again crying that the voluntary system just wasn't providing them with adequate information so he rams it through again with the force of government behind it and still cannot provide a clear explanation of how, why or what information is important. All that matters is that they get the information at any cost and if not we will punish those that don't provide the precious specific information to be used against their statistical guess to then determine that the specific information is less accurate than their statistical guess! But, that's okay Micromanaging at the State level to achieve uncontrollable outcomes is always the best management style, if you don't believe it just ask the government!
Carry on!
Last edited by Fun4all; 06/14/16 04:09 AM.
"After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: centralala]
#1760324
06/14/16 04:36 AM
06/14/16 04:36 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,479
Atoler
14 point
|
14 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,479
|
I am no biologist but just from the numbers you gave I would say Dallas county was basically unchanged if you were to chart it out on an SPC chart but something was possibly causing a negative trend in Winston county. At which time I would use my resources to further investigate Winston county's deer herd and it's health instead of not knowing there may be a problem there until it was too late and would then have to take drastic measures to reverse..... with the data and a little more investigation I may find nothing or I may find I need to adjust something to stabilize or increase the deer population. How do you know it's not just lower hunter participation? Licenses won't tell you where a person actually hunts. There's all kinds of data you can draw from. Total kill numbers yes, sex of kills, yes, but also date of kill, hunter success by license, hunter success by sex, etc I believe that year to year your avg hunter success will be just as telling as total harvest in a county. To simplify, if the avg entry by hunter, in Winston county is 1 buck, 3 does the first year, then 5 years later that has steadily decreased to .5 buck, 1 doe, it would be obvious there's a significant decrease in quantity, unless regulations changed. That could also be very telling, when the season was broken down into sections, bow season, early gun, mid, late, whenever the rut is, etc. this would tell you whether the deer were there, and just being over pressured, disappearing later in the season. Combine several years of total harvest, Buck/doe harvest ratio, avg success per participant, and when the deer were killed. If you can't paint a pretty accurate picture off that, then you aren't trying. Yes, but the testing sample needs to remain as close as possible for the entire 5 years. In other words as an example, on a five year sample, in year 3 hunting directly over bait becomes legal. This will affect the numbers one way or the other. Laws and rules could remain the same for a 5 year test but there a lot of uncontrollable factors from weather to the economy that can effect harvest numbers. Let me say again, I'm on the fence on the matter and can see valid points from both sides. That's why I said "unless regulations changed". I agree, plenty of variables can affect the outcome, but it would allow biologists to make the most informed decisions possible. Now, I'm not saying that I trust the state all that much, but if they are actually trying to make a positive impact in areas that are hurting, it's a necessary information. If you owned 10k acres of private land, and were trying to produce an optimal experience for pay hunters, you would dang sure have a detailed harvest log. You would also have a detailed sightings log. I believe If there was a mandatory harvest log, and voluntary hunter feedback like the avid turkey hunter survey, it would produce all the information a biologist could hope for on a state level.
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: Blessed]
#1761446
06/15/16 08:47 AM
06/15/16 08:47 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780 central ala,
centralala
14 point
|
14 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
|
Went to the Jasper meeting tonight and thought it went great I feel like if everyone will do their part and report the info the State can finally move forward with some good data . I feel like the State and our Biologist want what's best for us the hunters of our State so if you see these upcoming meetings please spread the word and attend these meetings so you can hear how it will all work if this indeed does pass in mid July. Sykes went thru the slide show with info and did a great job explaining things as well as hearing from the hunters in attendance and Matt Brock , Nighthunter , Chris Cook and others were very professional in answering questions as well ....great to have guys like them representing our State , thanks guys for all you do . Serious question on the data. Here is what I report (from what I am gathering at this point): 8 pt. killed, XYZ county, 1/1/17. What data can be gathered from this? Once again, not being a smart@$$, just looking for answers, explanations, and expectations.
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: centralala]
#1761474
06/15/16 09:21 AM
06/15/16 09:21 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,361
mman
8 point
|
8 point
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,361
|
Serious question on the data. Here is what I report (from what I am gathering at this point): 8 pt. killed, XYZ county, 1/1/17.
What data can be gathered from this? Once again, not being a smart@$$, just looking for answers, explanations, and expectations. That seems to be the question nobody can answer. So for, all I can determine is that this data is better than no data at all.
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: Blessed]
#1761572
06/15/16 11:41 AM
06/15/16 11:41 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,967 Tuscaloosa Co.
N2TRKYS
Booner
|
Booner
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,967
Tuscaloosa Co.
|
We are 1 of only 3 States left that doesn't have a tagging or gamecheck system , You hear this same kinda logic when folks want to raise property taxes.
83% of all statistics are made up.
|
|
|
Re: Game Check Scenario
[Re: Blessed]
#1761614
06/15/16 01:03 PM
06/15/16 01:03 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,102 Round ‘bout there
Clem
Mildly Quirky
|
Mildly Quirky
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,102
Round ‘bout there
|
this year some counties didnt even have a Warden This has been a problem for several years, unfortunately, not just last year or recently.
"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter
"Bible says you shouldn't put sugar in your cornbread." Dustin, 2013
"Best I can figure 97.365% of the general public is a paint chip eating, mouth breathing, certified dumbass." BCLC, 2020
|
|
|
|