Any timber guys on here? Why do you bother to cruise timber? To get DATA. To know how much inventory you have to cut.

Any gas station owners on here? Why do you stick your tanks? To get DATA to know when to order inventory.

Any store managers on here? How do you know when to order supplies to restock? How much do you order and when? It is based on some type of inventory DATA.

Any farmers on here? How many acres do you have planted or how many bales of hay do you have on hand? You look at your DATA.

I could fill up the page with these examples. But, my point is that Game Check is just a way for the State to get DATA to use in their job decisions. I have never bought a stock without looking at the historical performance (DATA) before buying it but yet our DCNR is trying to make educated decisions on less than quality databases. All they want is a way to get good data to make future decisions. And, it is going to take a few years to get enough data to make educated guesses with.

If all we have to do is dial a stupid phone number or go to a website to help some people do their jobs, then I'm willing to make that effort. Period, If that is too hard for you to figure out, then just wait until the proverbial tank runs dry and then just reorder more (gas, deer, or turkeys, etc.) once it goes empty.

All those examples are free enterprise not run by government. If government gets involved, you can bet they'll mismanage the timber, run out of gas, run out of inventory, and burn up all the hay.

Wade, I can tell you're a smart guy. Every undergrad stats student knows that reliable data never requires 100% participation. In fact, well under 1% is frequently far in excess of what's needed. So why is deer hunting different than any other data set?

Those same students should also know the higher the participation, the more reliable the data is. Personally, I'd feel better about management decisions being made with data from my county, not a statewide survey with a fraction of participants from my county.

The benefit becomes so small it's irrelevant to pursue more data. Any pollster knows this. Why waste resources on extra data that doesn't do us additional good?

Pay 1,000 hunters $25 to do a survey. Boom, there's your reliable accurate data for minimal cost.

It's kinda like 1 buck trying to breed 100 does at one time impossible well that's the same thing these biologist and wardens are up against not enough man power to research every County on a daily basis therefore Gamecheck will help with more info , I bet we will be amazed after deer season to see a huge difference in past data compared to present as well as turkey info .

My entire mindset is based on the concept that I am SICK and TIRED of Govt Intrusion into my everyday Life! Couple that with the ineptness and corruption that runs amuck in Govt Agencies and it makes it even worse.

Not 'blaming' DCNR for anything.

But, Govt is getting too big and intrusive.

Problem is, people continue to believe EVERYTHING they say even when it comes to wildlife. SMH at the gullibility of people.

I agree 100%. I'd love to see deer numbers increase but I'd rather the government maybe just assist where needed, if needed. Not just slam the hammer and say we're gona do this or that. Everything they get involved in completely fails.

All I know is currently we know less about our wild life than just about any state in the country that has a whitetail deer population. We also have the most diverse deer population of any state in the country with the exception of Florida and have very little data/ county/ area specific.

I get statistics and surveys but I don't see "surveying" 1% of the population as a valid way to gain valuable information.

Then you need to check out a book on statistics at the library. Or just google it. Don't take my word for it. 100% participation of GameCheck is fruitless and a huge hassle that I don't support.

"I have never bought a stock without looking at the historical performance (DATA) before buying it but yet our DCNR is trying to make educated decisions on less than quality databases."

Any prospectus that you read will state something like this: "Past performance is not an indicator of future returns." ...............

You are on to something that I have suggested in the past, which is with all of these properties that are were in DMAP and properties that already are own some kind of record keeping why can't that data be requested and used, which by the way will most likely be better than what they will get from a game check call in system.

I am sure there would be many hunters and lease holders that would compile information for the year and submit it on a voluntary basis, I know I would for the lease that I am a part of. But when you slam down the dictatorial government gavel and declare participation by force and penalty, that is where the problem comes in. It's not a hard concept to grasp, but as in the words of a wise man "it's amazing how hard simple is for some folks!"

I already read one, in college...pretty exciting stuff...

Maybe my point should have been that surveying random deer hunters to obtain information that will be used as the basis for laws, regs, limits etc. is a joke. Our DCNR needs way more info. than what can be obtained in a simple survey.

Any ideas on why other states require a mandatory check in? If it's as simple as sending out a survey, wouldn't other states do the same? Or maybe we have had it figured out and other states haven't???

I'm not sure why other states do what they do. No one on this forum has been able to provide me with tangible results from other states' experience regarding deer check in, in the other 49 states. If the results are so good where are they?
Are we supposed to follow the CAB with blind faith?

PapaJ: Love that one. I LOL'ed.

Danny: I agree 100% about Gov't intrusion. I'm about ready to tell the idiots what they can do with my taxes. Hell,I just stood in a tag renewal line for half a day just now.....Why do I need a tag on my 4 wheeler trailer anyway?

But, I was invited to one of the Turkey meetings this week. We have a real Biologist trying to work in a political world in Montgomery. The guy has been there just a few years and we have adjusted deer seasons based on DATA. And, those adjustments were made at the request of hunters so everyone can supposedly hunt the rut where they live. Bottom line is that DATA was used to make the argument, not some Legislator that wanted his farm in his county to get a season extension. Bottom line is that at least we have some biological background in the Department and not some Governor's nephew that needs a job so he gets appointed DCNR Commisioner.

We could always dig Charles Kelley up and put him back in charge so he can take away the decoys. Maybe we did kill every one of them once decoys were legalized (ha!).

One of my serious points is that all we are talking being required is to dial a telephone or go to a website and enter something. I've never had any trouble dialing in Illinois or Kentucky. It ain't like we have to haul every dead deer or turkey halfway across the county to have it checked in.

There is little doubt that Game Check is going to show a huge difference in harvest numbers when compared to the hunter survey - the numbers will go way down. Because the hunter survey is random, it doesn't take a lot of participation to be accurate; 1% is plenty. Since Game Check is not random, it wll need 100% participation to be accurate. You can read this forum and see they are not gonna get anywhere close to 100%. If only half the hunters participate, that will result in harvest numbers that are miles below the actual harvest. And the bad thing is there will be no way to accurately measure hunter participation.

I don't mind calling it in. Eventually, it will become accepted and most hunters will call in their kills. I just hope they understand the numbers will not be close to correct for a long time.

How many of the open meetings have you attended to voice your opinion or ask questions? If the answer is none, why don't you attend one instead of constantly complain on Aldeer about what you know isn't going to work?

In order for a random small percentage sample of the population to accurately represent the total population, it has be REPRESENTATIVE of the total population. Otherwise it is statistically invalid. In other words, what are the odds that a) the people who bother to answer the survey are the same types of hunters as the ones who don't bother/refuse to respond, and b) all those who respond are being completely truthful

Riddle me this.


Little Johnny went outside with his bucket of marbles. He accidentally spilled the bucket on the driveway and marbles went everywhere. Some rolled into the grass, flower bed, and down the street. He picked up every marble he could find and then counted them. He ended up with 245 marbles recovered. How many were not found?


Side note:

little Johnny thinks he had between 651 & 47,777 marbles before he went outside but he really has no clue because he never got a good count to begin with. Little Johnny is only 4 years old and can only count to 10 unless he takes his shoes off. Little Johnny is far from dumb but he lacks the resources to get an accurate count to begin with. Mommy and daddy don't understand common core.




This post was not meant to offend our biologist here but I don't believe the other states know anything except for how many animals were reported being killed.