Looking for some opinions. In south central Alabama what would an acre of loblolly pine timber bring in a 25-28 year rotation? I have heard some folks say an acre of pines that grows well should end up grossing $3000 over the life of the stand. I have also heard $2000/acre over the life of the stand. I know several on here are in the timber industry and will know more than I do.

I know its a very general question, and a lot of variables could affect the outcome. I am trying to buy a tract of land that has right at 100 acres that was recently clear cut that I will replant. I am trying to "guess" what it is worth as an investment.

Just to add, I am buying the land regardless of the investment potential, just curious.

It depends on so much - Site index (soil fertility) and stocking rate can vary widely which has a HUGE effect on growth and return, Market availability (how many mills and what do they buy and how close you are), When you harvest - is it a wet weather tract where you can sell when prices are best when mills need wood and loggers need a place to go? South central AL is not a real good market due to the distance from mills. Get a consulting forester to look at the tract and give you an est.

Pine is down now vs a year ago

You can't just say "I made $1,500/acre on these woods" because site prep and planting isn't free. Can be $200/ac easy. And $200 today is worth more than $200 in 30 years.

I just cut roughly 40 acres and I can tell you I regret cutting it, no money in timber for the landowner. Mine was hardwoods and pines mixed. Prices paid to me for the timber:

Pine Pulpwood $6.00/ton
Pine CnS/Canterwood $12.00/ton
Pine Plylogs $28.00/ton
Pine Poles $40.00/ton
Hardwood Pulpwood $8.00/ton
Oak Logs $45.00/ton
Miscellaneous Logs $33.00/ton

So as long as you are ok with purchasing without factoring that in, is good. Obviously things can change in 25-28 years but market has been bad since Opal in 1995.

Not sure about the 3k/acre for loblolly but can tell you that is what my dad has been planting when he HAS to cut timber. Supposedly the best option for those chasing timber money.

I can post more intelligently on this when I have 32 acres of pasture land planted this winter. I will be planting hardwoods though. Will still share the numbers I spend.

I know somebody last spring that cut over 5000 per acre on mixed.

Strickly talking about pine (loblolly) 25-30 yr rotation, there won't be any poles or saw timber. Whatever chip n saw prices are and possibly ply logs if there's a market in your area at that time. Site index is the most important factor in volume of timber and profit. IMO
1500-2000 in today's market if all goes well. On a good site index, it could be 2500.00. Lots of variables.
Sweet gum and popular is more valuable than pine plantation around here.....
God only knows what the market will be in 30 years!
I'd kill to have a 28.00 plylog market in our area.

The chemical site prep- $85-$90/acre
Lanes pushed, dozer stand by, burn- $35-$50/acre
Hand planting - $100 +/- / acre
Fall/Spring release - $60-$65/ acre

Needless to say, it ain't cheap

It depends on so many different factors it is impossible to guess. Use to we used about $3200 as a guide on a loblolly stand with a 28 year rotation. Now you can't get a paper mill or sawmill to give you a guaranteed delivery price for a month.

I looked at a logging job this morning in south Alabama that surprised me a little. It was a 18 year old longleaf plantation planted in old peanut fields, very good dirt. Dang stuff won't grow. The landowner couldn't find anybody that would give a price per ton doing a thinning, so he is clear cutting it and chipping it. It was in a government program of some kind, but the time had lapsed.
He figures he can stump it and get $140+ per acre rent as agriculture fields. By the way, across the highway on similar dirt was some loblolly that is probably the same age or less. It has been thinned already and has some very good chip-n-saw standing. I'm not saying all longleaf is like that, but I can show you plenty of it that is.

Another problem you may face that hasn't been mentioned yet is finding someone interested in buying the timber on only 100 acres. The number of crews available has gone down drastically in the past 20 years. When you get to the end of the cycle and are ready to clear-cut 100 acres of 28 year old wood, you can probably find interest in it right now. But finding someone to thin it can be very challenging.

What really concerns me is how many crews will still be operating 25 years from now? I am concerned that the day may come when a guy with only 100 acres can't get his timber cut for any price. Ok, that is the worst case scenario, but just look at the real world prices that Jarod posted and tell me how you are gonna make $3k per acre with those prices?

There was once a time when a small landowner could make decent money growing timber. I fear that time may be gone. Sure hope I am wrong.

I wish I had stopped and made some pics a couple of months back of some timber in St. Clair co. The loblolly stand looked about 18 yrs old, and was filled with dead and dying trees. Even the best ones were a sickly yellow color and the whole stand needed to be cut and started over. I don't know the owner or his thinking, but I suspect he has looked at prices like Jarod posted and realized he will get next to nothing if he cuts it now.

But right across the road was a stand of longleaf that was as pretty as any you will see anywhere. I'm guessing that the stands are about the same age, but it's obvious that the longleaf owner is in a much better situation than the loblolly guy. It all depends on the soil for your particular area.

One of the big reasons the timber industry in AL is so depressed now is that millions of acres unsuitable for growing loblolly was planted in it anyway. The government even helped pay the cost of planting a lot of it. And now we have this huge glut of sick loblolly, and many landowners are holding off cutting it, hoping prices will go back up. Instead, they go down every year.

There are reasons that the natural acreage of loblolly was small. I'll never plant another one.

It's going to cost him a ton of money to stump it and get it clean enough to row crop it.
I currently sell machines for this very application and per acre it's anywhere from $1500 to $2100 depending on the removal of any huge hardwoods, are stumpseverywhere or are they rowed, and getting the site cleared well enough not to do damage to the farmers planting and harvesting equipment, much less whomever it is, the farmer or landowner, that has to get the soil right so it will be able to grow peanuts, etc. He can go the less expensive " bulldozer and windrow and burn route" but that may take a very long time. Time is money.

You all have answered my questions. I have planted about 100 acres of pines on some other property I have just a couple years ago so I'm familiar with the input costs. Me and the seller shook hands today so once we get a survey and a contract I'll be set.

I have hunted this tract nearly all my life. I have seen some FINE loblolly grow on it. It was clearcut a couple years ago.

If it has been cut for a couple of years you need to get it on the schedule to be sprayed this year or your site prep and planting cost may increase the larger the regeneration gets. Good luck with the purchase, hope it does well for you. Timber markets are down now but I'm hopeful things will get better for everyone in the next few years. There's a lot of factors working against us now but if I had the money I would still invest in timberland.

Those prices are in line with today's markets in central AL. Maybe can get $7-$8 for pine pulp in certain areas but $6 is about it depending on distance to the mill. I'm guessing you are in an area where there's not much of a CNS market or else you would have gotten a higher price for CNS than canterwood.
Was this a natural stand and if so about how old? If you were disappointed in the value it must have had a lot of pulpwood. If there were a lot of ply logs or hardwood logs it would have produced a decent price per acre with those prices.

Appreciate you posting actual prices. It's usually just about impossible to get an answer on prices. I just started a 40 acre 1st thinning on some loblolly that really needed it and am gonna thin repressed damaged and forked trees from another 70 or so. All pulp and canterwood. I am lucky and made a buddy out of a timber guy locally and he called me yesterday because he fell into a deal where I can get $10/ton on pulp and $16 /ton on the canterwood which from what I can tell is pretty good right now. If we get another dry summer it's predicted beetles will be bad and I wanted my trees as healthy as possible. Thank goodness i met him because with only 320 total acres and only about 140 in pines I never plan on a big cut. The .plan from now on is 15 -20 acre clearcuts every 4-5 years to keep good succession going. And there are few crews out there that would do that. I would pay him a buck or so under a competitor just because he will come out and do the little stuff.

Do ya'll know of a transmission pole buying yard within 40 miles of Montgomery?

What is the cost going to be to take a stand of first generation loblolly pines that were planted on row crop ground and put it back in pastureland/row crop ground?

I'm not talking peanut growing land; just your standard corn/beans/cotton type crops?

I was thinking that it wasn't near as expensive as your $1500-2100 price range....

If you could have only had 30 year old trees during real estate boom years back you would be satisfied I bet. Now everybody has trees planted on those old row crop plantations. We export a lot of tree products. Tree demand pricing would be triple if everybody didn't have all these trees planted. Oak stands seem to be getting cut and are more in demand just takes to long to grow. I would consider adding a few acres of oak trees or fruit trees for wildlife purposes. You may enjoy those more than the few dollars you get off of the pines.