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Scopes
by Hoof2table. 11/15/24 07:27 AM
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Re: TSS questions
[Re: Yelp softly]
#2294349
11/15/17 11:27 AM
11/15/17 11:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,057
Hampton Cove
foldemup
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,057
Hampton Cove
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How do you compare 100 hits from one pellet versus 20 hits from a pellet of a different size? I don’t think you can have such a discussion without acknowledging that some of the “evidence” will be mostly anecdotal. Ballistic gel testing....pretty sure it's already been done.
If you want to always win, never play anyone better than you!
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Re: TSS questions
[Re: foldemup]
#2294360
11/15/17 11:42 AM
11/15/17 11:42 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,916
Central, Al
Bustinbeards
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 10,916
Central, Al
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How do you compare 100 hits from one pellet versus 20 hits from a pellet of a different size? I don’t think you can have such a discussion without acknowledging that some of the “evidence” will be mostly anecdotal. Ballistic gel testing....pretty sure it's already been done.
Originally Posted By: Wiley Coyote
Well, the way I see it is there's just too many assholes
On a good day there's a bunch of assholes in here. On a bad day there's too many assholes in here.
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Re: TSS questions
[Re: 3toe]
#2294393
11/15/17 12:14 PM
11/15/17 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 36,512
Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 36,512
Boxes Cove
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Assuming we are comparing apples to apples, if a lead #4 and a TSS #6 are shot at the same velocity, they will carry the same amount of energy, PER PELLET. The difference really comes in to play because the smaller TSS pellets allow for more pellets on the target. With all due respect, from an aerospace engineer, your reasoning is flawed. You are only considering muzzle velocity which really doesn't mean a whole lot since we don't shoot turkeys at 1 or 2 yards very often. The smaller shots sizes are significantly superior from an aerodynamic standpoint because they don't have all of that surface area drag to slow them down at such an exponential rate when compared to say a #4 lead. The second advantage to the smaller shot size is based upon the same premise. The smaller surface area significantly reduces drag (think FMJ bullet for comparison) when the shot enters the animal's skin which leads to less velocity bleed off on its way to bone (important because we are trying to break in his neck). The final advantage is how hard/strong the TSS shot is compared to lead. Lead deforms significantly upon impact (with each other going down the barrel as well as hitting something downrange) which hampers its ability to maintain its entry velocity and subsequently reduces the velocity/energy upon contact with bone (think FMJ ammo again). When people talk about #4 lead being equivalent to #9 TSS, they are talking downrange (i.e. where it matters) and not at the muzzle. You are correct though that the 4th advantage is so many more pellets on target, significantly increasing the chance of breaking the neck at various yardages. If you've ever met Jughead you'll agree he is definitely smarter than he looks. Definitely.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: TSS questions
[Re: 2Dogs]
#2294417
11/15/17 12:27 PM
11/15/17 12:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,700
Pisgah, AL
bowtarist
THE Octopus
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THE Octopus
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,700
Pisgah, AL
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Assuming we are comparing apples to apples, if a lead #4 and a TSS #6 are shot at the same velocity, they will carry the same amount of energy, PER PELLET. The difference really comes in to play because the smaller TSS pellets allow for more pellets on the target. With all due respect, from an aerospace engineer, your reasoning is flawed. You are only considering muzzle velocity which really doesn't mean a whole lot since we don't shoot turkeys at 1 or 2 yards very often. The smaller shots sizes are significantly superior from an aerodynamic standpoint because they don't have all of that surface area drag to slow them down at such an exponential rate when compared to say a #4 lead. The second advantage to the smaller shot size is based upon the same premise. The smaller surface area significantly reduces drag (think FMJ bullet for comparison) when the shot enters the animal's skin which leads to less velocity bleed off on its way to bone (important because we are trying to break in his neck). The final advantage is how hard/strong the TSS shot is compared to lead. Lead deforms significantly upon impact (with each other going down the barrel as well as hitting something downrange) which hampers its ability to maintain its entry velocity and subsequently reduces the velocity/energy upon contact with bone (think FMJ ammo again). When people talk about #4 lead being equivalent to #9 TSS, they are talking downrange (i.e. where it matters) and not at the muzzle. You are correct though that the 4th advantage is so many more pellets on target, significantly increasing the chance of breaking the neck at various yardages. If you've ever met Jughead you'll agree he is definitely smarter than he looks. Definitely. I'm in agreement as well
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Re: TSS questions
[Re: ALredbone]
#2294463
11/15/17 01:15 PM
11/15/17 01:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,022
Hartselle Al.
n2deer
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 16,022
Hartselle Al.
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Damn you guys can make it hard on yourselves sometimes.
Do you want to hear him gobble, or do you want to kill him.
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Re: TSS questions
[Re: ALredbone]
#2294494
11/15/17 01:36 PM
11/15/17 01:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,231
Central Alabama
Yelp softly
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,231
Central Alabama
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Some of you guys are better at scouring the internet than you are reading comprehension. The link was a forum about a guy with a ballistics software program. He was entering the penetration depth he wanted and the program spit out the effective distance.
Let’s say the program is dead nuts accurate. The closest comparison that can be made was #9 TSS and #5 lead where he had them both set to 1.5” of penetration. At the target distance (TSS was 13 yds further) the TSS is slower, and has less than half the energy that the lead #5 has. Until someone posts side by side ballistics gel results, it’s still anecdotal. Good try though.
"When there was no fowl, we ate crawdad, when there was no crawdad, we ate sand."
"YOU ATE SAND!" - Raising Arizona
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Re: TSS questions
[Re: Yelp softly]
#2294529
11/15/17 02:12 PM
11/15/17 02:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 36,512
Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 36,512
Boxes Cove
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Look on down the page at 7 1/2 lead V 7 1/2 TSS head to head. TSS penetrates 6 times deeper than lead at the same speed and distance.
Last edited by 2Dogs; 11/15/17 02:48 PM.
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: TSS questions
[Re: ALredbone]
#2297928
11/18/17 02:18 PM
11/18/17 02:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,341
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,341
Sylacauga, AL
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Do they carry enough weight down range when shooting smaller shot sizes? No. The stuff is no good at all. Everyone should stick to lead and limit shots to 35 yards.  YS, I think the best evidence for the penetrating ability of the tss 9s was the early research Hal did about a decade ago. He has numerous pics of holes in sheet metal from the 9s when #4 lead only dented it. I think the density is far more important than weight. #8 tss is equal to a size 6.4 lead pellet, but it penetrates miles better #6 lead. The stuff is ideal for shooting turkeys more than any other game animal, imo. When shooting a turkey, a smart hunter wants to punch holes in his central nervous system, that is his head or neck. Punch a hole through his CNS and the turkey dies. Punch a bunch of holes in it and he doesn't even seem to flop much. Most people try to kill a deer with a bullet through the vitals, and TSS might not be the best choice for that. TSS has been in use about a decade now and has killed thousands of turkeys. I think it is way past the anecdotal evidence level. I don't think there can be any doubt that it's the best shot available. What I think is still being discovered is the best shot size. I used mostly 8s for 7 years, but after 2 seasons of mostly 9s I believe the 9s are better for most situations. And it may be that even smaller sizes provide the ideal combination of pattern density and sufficient penetration. In most situations, 50 yards is the limit I will shoot one and I can tell you for sure that 9s will whack one easily at that range.
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: TSS questions
[Re: ALredbone]
#2297935
11/18/17 02:27 PM
11/18/17 02:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,059
North Jackson
ridgestalker
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,059
North Jackson
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9 and 9 1/2 will do just fine.
"The Heavens declare the glory of God;and the firmament sheweth his handiwork" Pslam 19:1
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Re: TSS questions
[Re: ALredbone]
#2298419
11/19/17 05:11 AM
11/19/17 05:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,783
Spanish Fort
TurkeyJoe
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,783
Spanish Fort
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Dang decent of you dog, but that trip would be short compared to some of the stuff I do to kill em.
Micah 6:8
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