Honestly I do not believe Sykes has an elitist attitude rather just that of a wildlife biologist that was used to being hired by a landowner to manage the wildlife and if you wanted to hunt or lease said property you were going to do what he said to do. I think as time goes by he will learn the difference but it is good to have someone that actually has made his living prior to this job managing wildlife I think...

Is

What I stated is as minimal as possible which is what you stated you are for. So you do want some rules as long as you agree with them. I think I am finally starting to understand. Except you are for restricting the way someone hunts on there property if they want to do it over corn or there bait of choice if they want to. Which is no diffrent than the food plot I am sitting on now it is just bait to draw in deer to kill. Maybe they have no where to plant a field or the equipment to plant it with but since you don't like it it should be illegal So as long as the rules and regulations fit your way of thinking they are good, Well sir I would say that makes you a hypocrite.

What criteria did you use to make the statement "It's obviously not happening." ? The following are not my words, but sum it up pretty nicely I think. "“Obviously” is a purely destructive word. It’s commonly used when a new concept or idea is being built of pre-existing notions.

I'm not sure what your objective is with this question. Quoting some unnamed source who doesn't like the word "obviously" doesn't really interest me, and I don't wanna get into a debate about it.

I arrived at the conclusion that a large number of deer being killed in AL are going unreported by looking at the GC numbers found in this thread. They are not consistent with past results of the hunter survey done since the 60s. There isn't a soul alive who believes most of the deer are being reported.

I'm not sure what your objective is with this question. Quoting some unnamed source who doesn't like the word "obviously" doesn't really interest me, and I don't wanna get into a debate about it.

I arrived at the conclusion that a large number of deer being killed in AL are going unreported by looking at the GC numbers found in this thread. They are not consistent with past results of the hunter survey done since the 60s. There isn't a soul alive who believes most of the deer are being reported.

We are now up to 34081 deer killed.

But what was the number on this date last year? Are we ahead, behind, or the same?

And I don’t believe the surveys were accurate either.

I think the only way to know for sure is to go to a tagging system like Illinois has.

I'm not sure what your objective is with this question. Quoting some unnamed source who doesn't like the word "obviously" doesn't really interest me, and I don't wanna get into a debate about it.

I arrived at the conclusion that a large number of deer being killed in AL are going unreported by looking at the GC numbers found in this thread. They are not consistent with past results of the hunter survey done since the 60s. There isn't a soul alive who believes most of the deer are being reported.

I'll always say this every chance I get when this topic is presented:

Percentage-wise, virtually nobody is reporting (I'd guess 5% to 15% "maybe"), and even though this will sound contradictory, I think the deer herd is in grave danger. Nowhere that I hunt has even remotely as many deer as it used to. My overall Alabama hunting experience these days is very close to causing me to lose interest. The return on investment isn't worth it anymore. And I don't really think the harvest regs are the problem, not even the liberal doe limits. I think it is the astronomical explosion in the number of hunters, combined with coyotes.

PCP,

I don’t think they are accurate for the same reason you don’t think a tagging system would work...it’s Alabama.

1. They only go to people that purchase a license.
2. I assume the response rate is low.

It’s just nonsense.

A tag system WOULD work, but the state would need to put some real teeth to it.

Well, I can't blame you for being skeptical, but I do have more confidence in our people at Auburn and the dcnr who produced these reports every year since 1963. I think there are lots of folks like the older gentleman that Goatkiller mentioned above out hunting in the state, but I've never seen any reason to doubt the work of the teams who produced the survey reports. There have been literally hundreds of people who worked on them over the years. I wouldn't mind at all calling them out if I thought they had done something wrong or had some sort of agenda, but I've never seen any evidence of that. They got 42.9% back on the year I linked, and that's an excellent return rate for a mail survey. I see no reason to call it nonsense.

There might be some difference in harvest numbers between those who returned the survey and those who didn't, but the wonderful thing about it was that we had data all the way back to the 60s, and whatever differences there were between the 2 groups would very likely have been similar year after year. That made it a great tool for understanding trends, and IMHO, that is all they need to know for setting seasons and limits. The exact number of deer killed in the state is unknowable and unimportant. The trend is what the dcnr needs to know.

Here is a link to the oldest one they still have on the website:

http://www.outdooralabama.com/sites/defa...il%20Survey.pdf

The reports always included their methodology, and even included a short statistics lesson to help the average hunter understand what the numbers show, and also tried to explain the limitations of the study. I've never seen any reason to doubt that the studies were not within the standard error. Dr. Ditchkoff was very adamant that they were, and I have always respected his work.

Another reason I thought the reports were accurate within the standard error is that the numbers went along with what I was seeing and hearing. When we had a bad year turkey hunting, the reports reflected it. When we had good years, they reflected that. When the buck limit started in 2007, you see a drastic reduction in the number of bucks killed. I've never seen numbers reported that just seemed way off. The GC numbers seem way off.

Some folks have used the last presidential election to try to prove that random sampling doesn't work, but that's not what I take from the past election. Hillary did win the popular vote; Trump won because polling numbers for the Rust Belt were a few points off in many polls, and he carried states the polls didn't predict that he would carry. But in most cases, all that meant was a shift of 2-3% of the voters. A shift like that is a game changer in an election, but it wouldn't really matter when setting deer seasons.

The dcnr survey report I linked said that data "Estimates with a percentage standard error less than 15% are reliable enough to be useful in making management decisions." I agree with them.

Its all a moot point now, so I will drop it. The hunter survey is dead, but GC lives.

Good hunting to all!

In my observation, the people who are most against any new regulations that further limit the number of deer that any one hunter can legally harvest are the same people who are refusing to participate in the GC harvest reporting. I assume this refusal to participate is in protest. However, it is this very under reporting which provides the state with the data they need to convince law makers that the deer heard is in bad shape and in need of further bag limit restrictions. I may be wrong but the massive under reporting by Alabama hunters is going to eventually screw us all.

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This is the kind of information I am looking for. I guess before I come on here and maybe rub some people the wrong way I should look for more of this stuff. Or maybe, the DCNR should do a better job of trying educate the hunting public of things like you mentioned. I am in IT, and I think that in order to be successful in most endeavors, getting your target to buy in or be invested in the project at hand should be one of your top priorities. I understand that not all people are open to being educated on a subject but I like having all the info to help me form my opinion. I am still not on board with agreeing with the stated numbers at this point, but I certainly understand why you have drawn the conclusions that you have. My wish is for there to be 100% compliance and for good decisions to be made based off of that.

Edit: After typing this, I read some of the thread "We Need Direction" also in the Serious forum. Seems as though I am not the only one who thinks that the opportunity to present step #1 was missed or presented poorly.