Where?
by Backwards cowboy. 03/14/25 07:46 PM
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Re: Game check stats to date
[Re: bigt]
#2347767
12/28/17 03:08 PM
12/28/17 03:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377 Gulfcrest
bigt
OP
14 point
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OP
14 point
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377
Gulfcrest
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35320 deer killed to date. 286 from my county (Mobile) We are not helping that total count much at all.
Last edited by bigt; 12/28/17 03:10 PM.
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Re: Game check stats to date
[Re: eskimo270]
#2347808
12/28/17 03:33 PM
12/28/17 03:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780 central ala,
centralala
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,780
central ala,
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PCP,
I don’t think they are accurate for the same reason you don’t think a tagging system would work...it’s Alabama.
1. They only go to people that purchase a license. 2. I assume the response rate is low.
It’s just nonsense.
A tag system WOULD work, but the state would need to put some real teeth to it. Well, I can't blame you for being skeptical, but I do have more confidence in our people at Auburn and the dcnr who produced these reports every year since 1963. I think there are lots of folks like the older gentleman that Goatkiller mentioned above out hunting in the state, but I've never seen any reason to doubt the work of the teams who produced the survey reports. There have been literally hundreds of people who worked on them over the years. I wouldn't mind at all calling them out if I thought they had done something wrong or had some sort of agenda, but I've never seen any evidence of that. They got 42.9% back on the year I linked, and that's an excellent return rate for a mail survey. I see no reason to call it nonsense. There might be some difference in harvest numbers between those who returned the survey and those who didn't, but the wonderful thing about it was that we had data all the way back to the 60s, and whatever differences there were between the 2 groups would very likely have been similar year after year. That made it a great tool for understanding trends, and IMHO, that is all they need to know for setting seasons and limits. The exact number of deer killed in the state is unknowable and unimportant. The trend is what the dcnr needs to know. Here is a link to the oldest one they still have on the website: http://www.outdooralabama.com/sites/defa...il%20Survey.pdfThe reports always included their methodology, and even included a short statistics lesson to help the average hunter understand what the numbers show, and also tried to explain the limitations of the study. I've never seen any reason to doubt that the studies were not within the standard error. Dr. Ditchkoff was very adamant that they were, and I have always respected his work. Another reason I thought the reports were accurate within the standard error is that the numbers went along with what I was seeing and hearing. When we had a bad year turkey hunting, the reports reflected it. When we had good years, they reflected that. When the buck limit started in 2007, you see a drastic reduction in the number of bucks killed. I've never seen numbers reported that just seemed way off. The GC numbers seem way off. Some folks have used the last presidential election to try to prove that random sampling doesn't work, but that's not what I take from the past election. Hillary did win the popular vote; Trump won because polling numbers for the Rust Belt were a few points off in many polls, and he carried states the polls didn't predict that he would carry. But in most cases, all that meant was a shift of 2-3% of the voters. A shift like that is a game changer in an election, but it wouldn't really matter when setting deer seasons. The dcnr survey report I linked said that data "Estimates with a percentage standard error less than 15% are reliable enough to be useful in making management decisions." I agree with them. Its all a moot point now, so I will drop it. The hunter survey is dead, but GC lives.  Good hunting to all! [color:#FF0000][/color] This is the kind of information I am looking for. I guess before I come on here and maybe rub some people the wrong way I should look for more of this stuff. Or maybe, the DCNR should do a better job of trying educate the hunting public of things like you mentioned. I am in IT, and I think that in order to be successful in most endeavors, getting your target to buy in or be invested in the project at hand should be one of your top priorities. I understand that not all people are open to being educated on a subject but I like having all the info to help me form my opinion. I am still not on board with agreeing with the stated numbers at this point, but I certainly understand why you have drawn the conclusions that you have. My wish is for there to be 100% compliance and for good decisions to be made based off of that. Edit: After typing this, I read some of the thread "We Need Direction" also in the Serious forum. Seems as though I am not the only one who thinks that the opportunity to present step #1 was missed or presented poorly. IMO, there has been a massive shift in the way that the aldcnr leadership incorporates changes that they would like to see. Up until about 10 years ago, they chose to educate and inform hunters of what was best for the deer herd and hunters alike and we can see the positive effects of there methods in areas such as the buck harvest. Did you know that before the 3 buck limit that it was estimated that the average buck killed per hunter was about 1.47? This was in large part due to the education of interested hunters by the aldcnr. Of course this method is slower like trying to turn around an aircraft carrier but it has been effective. The last 10 years the leadership has done what they think needs to be done and never mind if no one is following. DILLY, DILLY!! And you even know how to spell "herd".
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Re: Game check stats to date
[Re: bigt]
#2348028
12/28/17 05:29 PM
12/28/17 05:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517 Land of the free because of th...
mike35549
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
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At one time I know they estimated there were 1.5 million deer in AL I agree that was probably back in the late 80's and early 90's. If that number was anywhere close then the number today has to somewhere around the 1 million mark.
If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
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Re: Game check stats to date
[Re: mike35549]
#2348903
12/29/17 12:38 PM
12/29/17 12:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,907 dothan
eskimo270
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,907
dothan
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At one time I know they estimated there were 1.5 million deer in AL I agree that was probably back in the late 80's and early 90's. If that number was anywhere close then the number today has to somewhere around the 1 million mark. I believe Alabama has 52,419 square miles, you would only need an average of 20 deer/Sq mile to have over 1 million which I believe most property that I have seen and hunted probably have twice that many. Two things that I have noticed that changed since the doe a day limit from doe days is 1) does were pressured onto properties that before the limit held very few if any deer, ex. Houston county, many areas held very few if any deer during the doe days period, today every acre of land in Houston co, including Woodlots within Dothan city limits, hold a huntable population. Today I believe there are more deer in Houston Co than at any time I remember. 2) I have noticed that does have become just as hard if not harder to hunt than bucks,imo,the result is less sightings and they certainly don't run in large groups like they did 20 years ago. BTW I realize this is different in different areas of the state.
Super Predator
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Re: Game check stats to date
[Re: eskimo270]
#2348947
12/29/17 01:28 PM
12/29/17 01:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,616 Alabama
dirkdaddy
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,616
Alabama
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At one time I know they estimated there were 1.5 million deer in AL I agree that was probably back in the late 80's and early 90's. If that number was anywhere close then the number today has to somewhere around the 1 million mark. I believe Alabama has 52,419 square miles, you would only need an average of 20 deer/Sq mile to have over 1 million which I believe most property that I have seen and hunted probably have twice that many. Two things that I have noticed that changed since the doe a day limit from doe days is 1) does were pressured onto properties that before the limit held very few if any deer, ex. Houston county, many areas held very few if any deer during the doe days period, today every acre of land in Houston co, including Woodlots within Dothan city limits, hold a huntable population. Today I believe there are more deer in Houston Co than at any time I remember. 2) I have noticed that does have become just as hard if not harder to hunt than bucks,imo,the result is less sightings and they certainly don't run in large groups like they did 20 years ago. BTW I realize this is different in different areas of the state. Agree 20 deer in a 640 acre area (one square mile) sounds about right, if not a little low, for Alabama. I think there is a lot of truth to what you say.
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Re: Game check stats to date
[Re: bigt]
#2348979
12/29/17 02:28 PM
12/29/17 02:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517 Land of the free because of th...
mike35549
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
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There would be several square miles inside cities and towns along with some other sections of the state that do not have that many deer. I would say where I live in Walker Co would be somewhere around 15. So I would go along with a state wide average of somewhere around 20 which would put it right around 1 million.
If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
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Re: Game check stats to date
[Re: bigt]
#2349248
12/29/17 05:48 PM
12/29/17 05:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,666 Boxes Cove
2Dogs
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 37,666
Boxes Cove
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This is gonna be long. Those who say the ones not reporting are the one wanting to kill more than 3 bucks is true but is far from the sole reason. I've never said I was for or against the 10 day extension in the north or GC. What I am and was against was the data used for the 10 day extension. They happened the same year. Why not implement GC, gather data, and then use it for or against the 10 extension. GC, if done correctly, should be at least considered in the decisions. Either the 10 extension was so important it couldn't wait on GC or GC really isn't that important in decesion making. Then there is the leader you publically belittles landowners, military, special needs people, and senior citizens by essentially saying they are no better than a capable welfare recipient. True leaders can get the people to follow and the people will like it and then their are the ones that naturally just have a way of turning people off. He was the wrong guy to be pushing GC. Next, is the goal. What is our goal and the plan to get there? Older deer? Bigger deer? More balanced herd? Not just "a healthier nerd?" That meaning could vary. Spell it out for the people.
So, we have a leader that targets certain groups that's going to piss most people whether you are a military supporter or a special needs supporter. He delivers a program for better data at the same time delivers a season extension contradicting the need for data. Everything done without a goal relayed to the hunters.
As I said, I'm not pro or anti GC. But from many conversations GC non compliance goes much deeper than just wanting to kill more than 3 bucks. As you stated in the high lighted paragraph having an elitist attitude will never work with us common folk's that deer hunt our small tracts of land, in clubs or management areas. What gets our attention is a common sense approach that produces real results. Anybody with any hunting knowledge knows that what works in one area of the state doesn't in all of the state. Like extending the season to the tenth of February in North Alabama. That's what just doesn't make any sense at all and game check working at 30 % even shows that. Honestly I do not believe Sykes has an elitest attitude rather just that of a wildlife biologist that was used to being hired by a landowner to manage the wildlife and if you wanted to hunt or lease said property you were going to do what he said to do. I think as time goes by he will learn the difference but it is good to have someone that actually has made his living prior to this job managing wildlife I think... He let the elitest dictate how he got GC by making a deal with the high fence owners on the CAB. He wanted GC, they wanted their 10 days in December back in LA so the solution was extend season statewide and give LA the 10 days in December back. Some manager  .
"Why do you ask"?
Always vote the slowest path to socialism.
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Re: Game check stats to date
[Re: bigt]
#2351496
12/31/17 05:53 PM
12/31/17 05:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377 Gulfcrest
bigt
OP
14 point
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OP
14 point
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,377
Gulfcrest
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