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Main Service Panel question #2505291
06/12/18 10:54 AM
06/12/18 10:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,464
Madison County
bobwallace Offline OP
10 point
bobwallace  Offline OP
10 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,464
Madison County
A friend bought a home to renovate and sell and I am helping him with a few things. The main panel has 9 neutrals under just 3 lugs, and 11 neutrals total. I know these neutrals have to be under their own screw. However, I only have 9 available spots for these on the bus bar in the front. My question is, since the neutral bar and ground bar are bonded, can the other two neutral wires be put on the bar in the back given they under their own separate screw? Below is a pic from the home inspector that may give a better idea of what I am talking about.

[Linked Image]


Yeah, well, I always heard there were three kinds of suns in Kansas: sunshine, sunflowers, and sons-of-bitches.
Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: bobwallace] #2505296
06/12/18 10:59 AM
06/12/18 10:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 9,661
Pisgah Al
Bigbamaboy Offline
14 point
Bigbamaboy  Offline
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Posts: 9,661
Pisgah Al
Code says that grounds and neutrals have to be separated after the first means of disconnect. They make little splitters that go on neutral bars. It has 3 or four screws and goes under one screw.


Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?
Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: Dixiepatriot] #2505373
06/12/18 01:21 PM
06/12/18 01:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,464
Madison County
bobwallace Offline OP
10 point
bobwallace  Offline OP
10 point
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Posts: 3,464
Madison County
Originally Posted by Dixiepatriot
Is there a main breaker in the panel?
If you have to double wire on the nuetral make sure they are both the same size wire or twist them together



Yeah. There is a main breaker in the panel. The home inspector, which will be the same one coming to inspect the home again before closing, wrote it up in the report that you could not have more than one neutral under the same screw. Which is what I had always been taught as well. I know for a fact that in a sub-panel, you cannot have neutral and grounds on the same bus bar. But I would assume that in the main panel since the two bus bars are bonded together, that having them on the same bus would be acceptable as long as each neutral was placed under its own separate screw. I was hoping that someone a little more knowledgeable in this stuff might be able clarify it for me.


Yeah, well, I always heard there were three kinds of suns in Kansas: sunshine, sunflowers, and sons-of-bitches.
Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: bobwallace] #2505376
06/12/18 01:27 PM
06/12/18 01:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 23,137
Morgan Co.
Dixiepatriot Offline
Freak of Nature
Dixiepatriot  Offline
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Morgan Co.
Is there another disconnect between the panel and transformer?


http://familyfoundationfund.org
Proud descendant of confederate soldiers.
Auburn elitist
Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: Dixiepatriot] #2505382
06/12/18 01:44 PM
06/12/18 01:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,464
Madison County
bobwallace Offline OP
10 point
bobwallace  Offline OP
10 point
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,464
Madison County
Originally Posted by Dixiepatriot
Is there another disconnect between the panel and transformer?


I don't believe so other than the meter itself. If there is, I haven't seen it.


Yeah, well, I always heard there were three kinds of suns in Kansas: sunshine, sunflowers, and sons-of-bitches.
Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: bobwallace] #2505441
06/12/18 02:48 PM
06/12/18 02:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 23,137
Morgan Co.
Dixiepatriot Offline
Freak of Nature
Dixiepatriot  Offline
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Posts: 23,137
Morgan Co.
Won’t hurt to put them on the other bar then if they’re bonded together


http://familyfoundationfund.org
Proud descendant of confederate soldiers.
Auburn elitist
Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: bobwallace] #2505528
06/12/18 05:21 PM
06/12/18 05:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,186
UR 6
top cat Online content
Freak of Nature
top cat  Online Content
Freak of Nature
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,186
UR 6
Looks like you have enough spaces to seperate all of them.... Or am I seeing it wrong......... Or misunderstanding the question.....


LUCK:::; When presistence, dedication, perspiration and preparation meet up with opportunity!!!
- - - - - - - -A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jeferson - - - - - - - -
Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: top cat] #2505542
06/12/18 05:43 PM
06/12/18 05:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
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Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by top cat
Looks like you have enough spaces to seperate all of them.... Or am I seeing it wrong......... Or misunderstanding the question.....

There's only 9 terminals on the neutral buss.
Two of those screws are mounting bolts.
As Dixie pointed out, though, since both neutral and ground buss are bonded, nothing wrong with using either of them.


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: top cat] #2505551
06/12/18 05:51 PM
06/12/18 05:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 641
Here and There at times
D
DonH Offline
4 point
DonH  Offline
4 point
D
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Posts: 641
Here and There at times
main disc panels are aloud to have all neutral and ground wires on same bonded neutral bar. after that point the next panel is required to have a separate ground bar and neutral bar . that would be if you have a 4 wire ser type service cable feeding the second panel.....if your house was built in the 70's or older you probably have a 3 wire service seu type service cable and in that case you are aloud to put both neutral and ground on same bonded terminal bar .....neutral wires are to be one wire in each hole of the bar ...grounds can be ganged up in the same hole givin they are of the same gauge wire.....

Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: bobwallace] #2505554
06/12/18 05:53 PM
06/12/18 05:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 641
Here and There at times
D
DonH Offline
4 point
DonH  Offline
4 point
D
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 641
Here and There at times
I may or may not have been a licensed electrician for 37 years in central fla....maybe....hehe

Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: bobwallace] #2505568
06/12/18 06:08 PM
06/12/18 06:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
After a few years, being out of the game, I've found it both easy and relaxing to forget most of the code books. smile


My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: bobwallace] #2505688
06/12/18 08:16 PM
06/12/18 08:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,464
Madison County
bobwallace Offline OP
10 point
bobwallace  Offline OP
10 point
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Posts: 3,464
Madison County
Thanks fellas. Got it taken care of this afternoon. I appreciate the help Dixie


Yeah, well, I always heard there were three kinds of suns in Kansas: sunshine, sunflowers, and sons-of-bitches.
Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: Out back] #2505767
06/12/18 10:04 PM
06/12/18 10:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 17,105
Ourtown, AL
BCLC Offline
Old Mossy Horns
BCLC  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 17,105
Ourtown, AL
Originally Posted by Out back
After a few years, being out of the game, I've found it both easy and relaxing to forget most of the code books. smile


thumbup


We’re not dead. We just smell that way. Dayum. - AC870

Yessir! I’m always gonna shoot what makes me happy and I want everyone else to do the same! If you shoot one be proud of it and don’t worry what anyone else thinks. - SJ22
Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: Out back] #2505968
06/13/18 09:22 AM
06/13/18 09:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 641
Here and There at times
D
DonH Offline
4 point
DonH  Offline
4 point
D
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 641
Here and There at times
Originally Posted by Out back
After a few years, being out of the game, I've found it both easy and relaxing to forget most of the code books. smile

what was this thread about....

Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: bobwallace] #2506154
06/13/18 02:50 PM
06/13/18 02:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 676
Ms
FX4 Offline
4 point
FX4  Offline
4 point
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 676
Ms
Dang guys. Aloud/Allowed ..... Never mind.



Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: bobwallace] #2506170
06/13/18 03:11 PM
06/13/18 03:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 641
Here and There at times
D
DonH Offline
4 point
DonH  Offline
4 point
D
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 641
Here and There at times
this aint no spelin be it be bout elecamatric stuf. thanks for being my personal spell checker.....

Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: bobwallace] #2506175
06/13/18 03:16 PM
06/13/18 03:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 676
Ms
FX4 Offline
4 point
FX4  Offline
4 point
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 676
Ms
Yu welcume.

Last edited by FX4; 06/13/18 03:17 PM.


Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: bobwallace] #2506178
06/13/18 03:21 PM
06/13/18 03:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,875
Prattville Al.
C
capehorn24 Online content
10 point
capehorn24  Online Content
10 point
C
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,875
Prattville Al.
So after seeing pic, is ok to have 1 neutral and 1 ground under the same screw on the neutral bar?

Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: DonH] #2506179
06/13/18 03:21 PM
06/13/18 03:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,484
Bham
D
Dallas County Offline
Booner
Dallas County  Offline
Booner
D
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,484
Bham
Originally Posted by DonH
I may or may not have been a licensed electrician for 37 years in central fla....maybe....hehe
Do do highway type electrical work? If so, send me a PM. I'm in Orlando and we need electricians all day long.


not sure what the best way to handle them is but they shouldnt be on tv and gettn married and raisin kids

Re: Main Service Panel question [Re: capehorn24] #2506197
06/13/18 04:02 PM
06/13/18 04:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Out back Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Out back  Offline
Grumpy Old Man
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 30,910
Clanton, AL
Originally Posted by capehorn24
So after seeing pic, is ok to have 1 neutral and 1 ground under the same screw on the neutral bar?

No.
Each wire should be in a separate terminal.
You can place the neutral conductors in a grounding terminal, in the main panel, where they are bonded.
Or, if you must place two grounding conductors in the same terminal, they must the same size and type wire.
The codes and terminology can be confusing. This is another reason why it's always best to hire an electrician.

Last edited by Out back; 06/13/18 04:05 PM.

My opinions and comments are my own. They do not reflect the position or political opinions of Aldeer or any of the Aldeer administration.
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