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Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: GomerPyle] #2588525
09/24/18 05:03 AM
09/24/18 05:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 11,203
northport
deadeye48 Offline
Booner
deadeye48  Offline
Booner
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Posts: 11,203
northport
Originally Posted by GomerPyle
Originally Posted by whack-n-stack
Make sure it’s not a metal roof on top of shingles.


Wouldn't have thought they'd even do that. Why, specifically, is that bad?


The expansion and contraction of the roof will cause the shingle to cut into the coating on the metal roof and it'll rust from the bottom.
The way it should be done if shingles are left on is to overlay with runs of 1x4's to screw the metal down to


When I need expert advice I tend to talk to myself
The older I get the better I used to be
Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: GomerPyle] #2588535
09/24/18 05:36 AM
09/24/18 05:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,086
Boaz,AL
CarbonClimber1 Offline
14 point
CarbonClimber1  Offline
14 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,086
Boaz,AL
Ive seen alot of shingle roofs replaced with metal...never the other way around. I have a brand new metal roof on my house...and bout ever member of my family has went to one..we likem with nary an issue yet.


"I dont quit.. And ill fight alone if i have to"
Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: GomerPyle] #2588566
09/24/18 06:43 AM
09/24/18 06:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,246
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,246
Chelsea, AL
You've gotten some good advice to consider so far.

Screws can back out and washers break down leading to leaks.
Original installation may vary depending on area of practice and if roofing contractor is current and up to date on manufacturers installation guidelines.

Shingles...well nails can back out, tar strips break down and installation can vary too. Shingles are more prone to be impacted by storms. But wind driven rain can walk up a metal roof much easier than shingles and find an entry point.

Lifespan on metal is longer overall.


"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: GomerPyle] #2588570
09/24/18 06:45 AM
09/24/18 06:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,963
USA
R
Remington270 Offline
Freak of Nature
Remington270  Offline
Freak of Nature
R
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,963
USA
I think the aesthetics are the main thing, at least probably for your wife. Does she like the way that it looks, will determine whether you buy the house or not...

Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: Remington270] #2588573
09/24/18 06:47 AM
09/24/18 06:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3,884
Montgomery, Alabama
B
bama1971 Offline
10 point
bama1971  Offline
10 point
B
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3,884
Montgomery, Alabama
Originally Posted by Remington270
aesthetics


^^

Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: GomerPyle] #2588588
09/24/18 07:14 AM
09/24/18 07:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,827
alabama
outdoors1 Offline
10 point
outdoors1  Offline
10 point
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,827
alabama
I recall one of the Aldeer roof installers stated you need to keep an eye out on bolts that may need to be replaced with larger ones over time. Should be able to get 50 years out of the metal roof unless there is a moisture problem. I would have it checked out by a reputable long time roofing installer just as a precaution now and every 5 years for screw problem. Shouldn't charge you to come look at it.

Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: Irishguy] #2589320
09/24/18 07:54 PM
09/24/18 07:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 36,511
Boxes Cove
2Dogs Offline
Freak of Nature
2Dogs  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 36,511
Boxes Cove
Originally Posted by Irishguy
We went with galvalume on our cabin. I designed it basically like this:

5/8" plywood T-111 decking over the rafters
Vapor barrier over decking
Double 2x4 blocking on 24" centers over that perpendicular to the rafters
R-15 insulation in between the blocking
1/2" decking over all of that
Waterproof barrier over that
Metal roofing screwed through the decking and into the blocking.

It's sort of a sandwich type construction similar to an Alaska roof. I did it this way because my rafters and the pretty side of the T-11 are exposed to the bedrooms below.

I don't know of any downside to a metal roof as of yet. We are sleeping in the cabin now in one of the upper bedrooms and I haven't noticed any more noise with that set-up when it rains than with our traditional shingle roof at home.

One thing about a metal roof is that you can collect rain water off of it for drinking, watering plants, etc... Whereas a shingle roof you aren't supposed to because of the chemicals it leaches. Until we got city water up there we had planned to collect rain water from the roof into a large cistern for our main water source. All houses in the British Virgin Islands are set up this way with the whole basement being giant under ground cisterns.

When we build the house at the beach we will go with a galvalume roof also. I don't see how a galvalume roof would be any hotter than a black asphalt roof. If anything it would be cooler. Lighter colors reflect heat and darker colors absorb it.



Two questions Irishman, is the R15 the only insulation you have overhead? Won't the space between the double vapor barrier sweat and have condensation that is trapped ?



"Why do you ask"?

Always vote the slowest path to socialism.







Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: GomerPyle] #2589525
09/25/18 06:43 AM
09/25/18 06:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,361
M
mman Offline
8 point
mman  Offline
8 point
M
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,361
I had my roof replaced with a metal roof this year. They removed the shingles. I went with a standing seam. It was more expensive, but since it is installed with clips, the metal can expand and contract without elongating any screw holes. We went with galvalume also. Cell phone reception went down a little. It is really no louder in the rain than when we had asphalt shingles. We love our roof. I also worked a deal where they installed seemless gutters as part of the job. The quotes were all over the place. It was obvious that some knew what they were doing and others didn’t. Some were seemingly just trying to price it as high as they could. My point is just because it is metal doesn’t mean it was installed properly or that it will last longer than an asphalt roof. My 2 cents.

Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: fladeerhntr] #2589535
09/25/18 06:56 AM
09/25/18 06:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,339
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
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poorcountrypreacher  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,339
Sylacauga, AL


We had one at my last church. Just had to get out the buckets every time it rained because it leaked and nobody could fix it. My uncle just had one installed on his camp house. It's leaked every time it has rained so far, but the installer assured him that it's fixed now. They killed cell reception in both places; have to go outside to make a phone call.

I put shingles on my shooting houses because of my dislike of metal roofing. I've had much better luck with the old corrugated or 5v tin than the metal roofing they use now.


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: poorcountrypreacher] #2589543
09/25/18 07:04 AM
09/25/18 07:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 54,091
Gee's Bend/At The Hog Pen
James Offline
Freak of Nature
James  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 54,091
Gee's Bend/At The Hog Pen
Originally Posted by poorcountrypreacher


We had one at my last church. Just had to get out the buckets every time it rained because it leaked and nobody could fix it. My uncle just had one installed on his camp house. It's leaked every time it has rained so far, but the installer assured him that it's fixed now. They killed cell reception in both places; have to go outside to make a phone call.

I put shingles on my shooting houses because of my dislike of metal roofing. I've had much better luck with the old corrugated or 5v tin than the metal roofing they use now.


Don't think the metal was the problem in both those cases.


Do not regret growing older, it's a privilege denied to many!

Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: GomerPyle] #2589544
09/25/18 07:06 AM
09/25/18 07:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,034
Northport, AL
Phil_Army Offline
12 point
Phil_Army  Offline
12 point
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,034
Northport, AL
They look horrible after about 5 years and they really don't help the resale value of the house


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Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: GomerPyle] #2589550
09/25/18 07:15 AM
09/25/18 07:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,360
Greensboro,Al.USA
Geezer Offline
12 point
Geezer  Offline
12 point
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,360
Greensboro,Al.USA
I don’t have a problem with phone reception and have a metal roof there might be some leaks though 😡


I am drinking from my saucer cause my cup has overflowed. Thank you Lord
Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: GomerPyle] #2589598
09/25/18 07:57 AM
09/25/18 07:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,840
Right behind you
Mbrock Offline
Fancy
Mbrock  Offline
Fancy
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8,840
Right behind you
I think they look terrible after a few years of sun damage. I wouldn’t have one on my house but that’s just me.

Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: 2Dogs] #2589690
09/25/18 09:40 AM
09/25/18 09:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,246
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,246
Chelsea, AL
Originally Posted by 2Dogs
Originally Posted by Irishguy
We went with galvalume on our cabin. I designed it basically like this:

5/8" plywood T-111 decking over the rafters
Vapor barrier over decking
Double 2x4 blocking on 24" centers over that perpendicular to the rafters
R-15 insulation in between the blocking
1/2" decking over all of that
Waterproof barrier over that
Metal roofing screwed through the decking and into the blocking.

It's sort of a sandwich type construction similar to an Alaska roof. I did it this way because my rafters and the pretty side of the T-11 are exposed to the bedrooms below.

I don't know of any downside to a metal roof as of yet. We are sleeping in the cabin now in one of the upper bedrooms and I haven't noticed any more noise with that set-up when it rains than with our traditional shingle roof at home.

One thing about a metal roof is that you can collect rain water off of it for drinking, watering plants, etc... Whereas a shingle roof you aren't supposed to because of the chemicals it leaches. Until we got city water up there we had planned to collect rain water from the roof into a large cistern for our main water source. All houses in the British Virgin Islands are set up this way with the whole basement being giant under ground cisterns.

When we build the house at the beach we will go with a galvalume roof also. I don't see how a galvalume roof would be any hotter than a black asphalt roof. If anything it would be cooler. Lighter colors reflect heat and darker colors absorb it.



Two questions Irishman, is the R15 the only insulation you have overhead? Won't the space between the double vapor barrier sweat and have condensation that is trapped ?


Great question based on the description. I'm assuming this is an unvented sloped roof on the cabin and the R-15 is an air-permeable batt insulation? I've followed your build, Irishguy, but never looked closely at any roofing details. 2 Dogs has some legit questions. Materials used will help determine if there is a potential issue down the road.

I'm going to list layers in descending order of what you listed:

------- Metal Roofing
~~~~~Self Adhered/Peel & Stck type waterproof barrier, like and Ice & Water Shield applied to 1/2" roof decking (Non-permeable barrier?)
_____ 1/2 Roof decking
XXX R15 insulation inbetween ____ 2x4 blocking (Type? Batt Insualtion?)
~~~~~ Vapor Barrier (air permeable?) such as felt or house wrap, on top of T-111
-------- T-111 used as exposed ceiling
===== Rafters visible.
{----} Conditioned space below

The questions to ask are this:
Where does environmental moisture/humidity from the conditioned space go?
What happens to it once there?

Kitchen use, showers, outside air, people emit water vapor just by breathing and living..are all sources of moisture.
Closed off roof systems can also have environmental moisture due to simple temperature changes.
Moisture will act as a vapor and travel vertically, known as vapor drive. Every house ever built has this. Physical laws of nature.

As normal and typical vapor rises to the T-111 surface, it goes through sheathing at joints or penetrations, Vapor drive then goes through the air-permeable barrier, then through the batt insulation, then finds its way to and through the roof decking joints and then out to the waterproof membrane.---but in this case there is a non-permeable membrane type system I assume, so the vapor will stop there and hold which often results in sheathing rot over time. Any moisture in the roof system from any other source will turn to vapor and do the same thing.

[Edit, added]: Also when vapor drive gets turned around and holds up in the roof system, you can get a build up of microbial growth on the ceilings in spots pretty easily. I've had a number of experiences with this too. However....

IF the roof is vented, then this is a non issue because the vapor drive has a route to escape while the insulated roof system still works for thermal protection. Is the roof vented?
IF the lower barrier (on the backside of the T-111) is a non-air permeable material, then the conditioned space vapor drive never gets to the roof sheathing, stays in the space where the HVAC and natural air movement takes care of it.
If the R-15 insulation is non-air permeable (rigid foam-sealed and taped- or spray foam), then any vapor drive stops there and never makes it to the roof sheathing. Vapor will "turn around" and hold in that space between the decking---not always a good thing---but it can also get back to the conditioned space depending on how tightly sealed the roof system is. Rigid foam board that is layered, taped and sealed or closed cell spray foam will create a non-permeable barrier. Batt insulation does not.

I love your cabin and your work has been fantastic so far. But....may want to double check some things now before any more time goes by--err on the side of caution. Hopefully what you have in place will handle vapor drive perfectly!!!!



Last edited by straycat; 09/25/18 10:07 AM.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: GomerPyle] #2589703
09/25/18 09:58 AM
09/25/18 09:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,246
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,246
Chelsea, AL
I've had about a dozen cases involving Grace Ice & Water Shield (or similar) waterproof self adhered barriers where vapor drive cause roof decking rot in roof systems that were either:
A: Non vented sloped or cathedral roofs
B: Over non-conditioned and non-vented attic space

Both situations allow vapor drive to reach membrane and then hold where roof decking deterioration will occur.


"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: GomerPyle] #2589740
09/25/18 10:53 AM
09/25/18 10:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,908
Northport, AL
GomerPyle Online content OP
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
GomerPyle  Online Content OP
Impatient Stinky Britches Wearin’ Off-Roadin’ Guru
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 20,908
Northport, AL

Ok, so based on all the posts in this thread..........how do we make sure an existing metal roof was properly installed? This one is 6-7 yrs old, for what it's worth. Would a "typical" home inspector know what to look for, or would we need to have the roof inspected separately (and if so, by whom?)


There are 3 certainties in an uncertain world:

1. All Politicians Are Liars
2. All Gun Laws Are an Infringement
3. Taxation Is Theft
Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: 2Dogs] #2589761
09/25/18 11:17 AM
09/25/18 11:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,743
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,743
Lickskillet, AL
Originally Posted by 2Dogs


Two questions Irishman, is the R15 the only insulation you have overhead? Won't the space between the double vapor barrier sweat and have condensation that is trapped ?


I have a question for your question...

Does a cooler or an insulated cup sweat between the inner and outer layers?

Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: Irishguy] #2589786
09/25/18 11:41 AM
09/25/18 11:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 11,029
Conecuh county
hallb Offline
Booner
hallb  Offline
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Posts: 11,029
Conecuh county
Originally Posted by Irishguy
Originally Posted by 2Dogs


Two questions Irishman, is the R15 the only insulation you have overhead? Won't the space between the double vapor barrier sweat and have condensation that is trapped ?


I have a question for your question...

Does a cooler or an insulated cup sweat between the inner and outer layers?




I think I might read straycat's post. They're trying to help you out, not be asses about it....just saying. If you're all good, then you're all good can't hurt to have someone who deals with it daily give it a little sanity check. Sorry - my 2 cents that ain't worth a penny.

Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: hallb] #2589792
09/25/18 11:46 AM
09/25/18 11:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,743
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,743
Lickskillet, AL
Originally Posted by hallb
Originally Posted by Irishguy
Originally Posted by 2Dogs


Two questions Irishman, is the R15 the only insulation you have overhead? Won't the space between the double vapor barrier sweat and have condensation that is trapped ?


I have a question for your question...

Does a cooler or an insulated cup sweat between the inner and outer layers?




I think I might read straycat's post. They're trying to help you out, not be asses about it....just saying. If you're all good, then you're all good can't hurt to have someone who deals with it daily give it a little sanity check. Sorry - my 2 cents that ain't worth a penny.


I was asking a legitimate question. That's all.

Re: Pros and Cons of metal roof [Re: Irishguy] #2589794
09/25/18 11:50 AM
09/25/18 11:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,246
Chelsea, AL
straycat Offline
Old Mossy Horns
straycat  Offline
Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,246
Chelsea, AL
Originally Posted by Irishguy
Originally Posted by 2Dogs


Two questions Irishman, is the R15 the only insulation you have overhead? Won't the space between the double vapor barrier sweat and have condensation that is trapped ?


I have a question for your question...

Does a cooler or an insulated cup sweat between the inner and outer layers?




If It's a multi ply cooler top with open joints and air permeable topped in metal...then maybe so.
Solid where cooler moisture could not penetrate the top...then no.


"The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:8

"Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.� Samuel Adams
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