Looking at a piece of property that's roughly 120 acres of which 60 is currently in Ag fields. The rest of it is mostly hardwood/pine natural regrowth, more on the hardwood side. In talking with the listing agent, I was asking about the Ag fields and how I would be using it for hunting primarily and not sure if I would want to keep it that way. There is a farmer that has been leasing it forever that does the standard rotation on the fields. It is still a very huntable piece of property with the fields there. So my question is, would you keep it in Ag fields and let the farmer keep farming on it or would you carve out some plots and have pines planted over the 60 acres?

I'd let the guy keep farming it. Collect rent. Win win for wildlife,you and him

When he plant soybeans you'll kill bigger deer and see more deer in anytime and the good part is you'll have 60 Acres of soybeans that you got paid for when he plants cotton you'll be SOL Id designate a couple Lanes on the edges of the fields to plant for the deer for those years but let him keep farming it

This ^^^ 60 acres of pines is still a good amount of timber and I wouldn't mess up a good ag feild thats paying

Yeah, there's corn there still standing this year which he took the insurance on b/c it was too wet I guess. Apparently did peanuts last year, next year is cotton I believe. The cotton years I'm not a fan of in terms of deer attraction. I would have a couple of lanes on the edges regardless, but for a lot of the fields, the edges are also the property lines.

I love how folks think cotton is bad for deer. Deer eat the piss out of cotton. Have him mow lanes in the stalks after he picks but get up high. Deer love using standing cotton stalks for cover. Sounds like you found a jam up place really.

And plant a cover crop in it.

Deer are attracted to a cotton field almost the whole time the crop is growing. Deer come to a corn field when the plants are young and tender and again when the ears begin to droop. Cotton is actually a better deer attractant than corn to keep them on your place. Peanuts are better than cotton and soybeans are the best of the four mentioned IMHO.

100%

Also remember that Ag land converted to woods will never go back to Ag

I knew the deer would eat the cotton when it was young and green and growing, but didn't know they would eat it once it started drying out and blooming or whatever it's called that cotton does

Deer love cotton.

Tell him you want it enrolled in the CSP and or EQUIP program too. That's where your cover crop/plots will com from!

I see you guys post all the time that deer love cotton....why in the hell don’t I ever see these mythical creatures in it?

Leave the ag alone. May be better off turning the other 60 into ag also

This.

If it’s in something you want like corn or beans you could also buy a couple acres from the farmer that he could leave standing for you. If you want green fields cut them out of the 60 acres of regen.

I would let him farm it for free, and ask him, in return to plant you a few acres of corn and soybeans just for the deer.

No sense in buying the standing crop just negotiate on the rent. Which is buying in a sense of the word. Plenty ways to get creative here

Not necessarily true. There is a local farmer here that is buying up land left and right in planted pines, clear cutting it, and converting it back to farm land.

Can be done. But it's not cheap. He'll be into that ground for $2k in just cleaning cost. That's before lime and fert and gonna be years before it's up to par on yield. Today's Ag economy doesn't bode well to be doing a lot of that but that can change I hope

I used to lease a place on the Alabama river in Lowndes co that had huge cotton fields on it, hundreds of acres of cotton. Deer used the hell out of the cotton fields, fed in it, bedded in it and traveled thru it. Some years they would plant wheat after they harvested the cotton. Lots of deer in a 500 acre green field

Sounds like the collier place over there.

This for sure. Nothing like hunting ag fed deer IMO. And like 257 also says, have it where a cover crop is planted during winter. Those places are huge destination fields at night for deer and hold them on your property.

I USED to hunt near some ag fields in North Al before they all disappeared and thats what my neighbors did. Holds the deer no doubt.

Eli Robinson, Todd Meadows, Huffman Rhyne farmed it

120 acres , with 60 in row crop and the other 60 in mixed pine and hardwood ain't no way in cornbreadhell I'm planting the open land in pine ! Period , end of discussion far as I'm concerned .

In my experience, they don't touch the cotton too much. My deer prefer the briars and honeysuckle in the pines compared to the field. Could be because of pressure, who knows. I know each place is different but that's just what I've seen.

Deer in Lee Co I know for a fact will mow down cotton. I also know that deer blood is a great fertilizer for cotton

I’d let him plant 55 acres of that 60. I’d plant 5 acres of Alfalfa. I guarantee you that will help you kill more and bigger deer. It will also has probably help the farmer by taking feeding pressure off his crop.

We use to have several hayfields/pastures and now it's all in pines. I wish I had some open land now. That sounds like an awesome place. Deer like mixed woods better than all pine or all hardwood too imo.

While it is not a super preferred source like corn and beans. You'd be very surprised at how much deer will feed in cotton fields. Cotton seed is very high in protein and a lot of Texas ranches feed cotton seed in their free choice trough feeders. Deer will also browse the hell out of it before it defoliates.

I take some off my cash rent I charge the farmer in exchange for him leaving some corn and soybeans standing. When soybeans loose leaves I got through and spread some winter wheat around too.

The only way I would plant the ag fields in pines would be if I were a lot younger and wanted to start my own pine straw business, otherwise I would work a deal (in a contract) with a farmer that would leave or plant for the wildlife.

Deer love cotton. Seen plants mowed down to nubs around cotton fields.

Thanks for all of the input.

I'd just insist he add peanuts to his rotation! Deer not only eat cotton, they also eat the browse that gets the fertilizer runoff from the fields.

deer might eat cotton but if the neighbor plants soybeans I can tell you which one there gonna spend more time in.

If he’d plant 5 acres of Alfalfa his neighbor wouldn’t see any deer in his soybean field

You can insist all you want but if he doesn't have peanut equipment he ain't just gonna run out and buy it

Is Alfalfa really that attractive to deer? I have never planted it but have several places that I could do so.

I was reading on Hancockseed.com and there a alot of different types.It looks like it like pH of 5.6-7.5 so that will be good. Most of my place is in the 6.8-7.2 range (I have never had to lime due to the abundance of limestone in the ground). Do you have a species that you would recommend?

Those rich ole farmers are making so much money you need to tell them what’s what. Half soybeans, half peanuts, leave 60’ standing crop around field, no harvest after bow season starts, and a 25% increase in lease price. That’s what I’d do.

Might want to talk to your local Extention Service or a farmer you know. Growing alfalfa is very difficult and expensive to establish and maintain. Lots of spraying. In most situations clover is a much better alternative

Wonder about hemp now that Congress just legalized it (not maryjane).

It seems like a very easy plant to grow. And maybe fetch more then hay.

Would deer eat hemp?

Does hemp have any protein in it?
Like at least 18% protein that would help antler growth?

Would deer get munchies and have a tacobell craving?

Don't know if they will eat hemp but they will darn sure chow down on a pot plant. No personal knowledge of course.Heard it from a friend in my younger days.

rabbits will too so I've heard mothballs will take care of it though is what ive been told

I bought a couple bags of round-up ready Alfalfa seed (amerigraze might have been the brand). I had a 3 acre spot that I had poured the lime to the year before. I had pretty good germination, but mine never really took off. In the heat of the summer is stayed eaten down and low, the middle of winter was the same way. I would get decent growth in the spring (enough for a cutting of hay, which was my reason for planting). I could also get a cutting of hay in the fall if we got enough rain.

I ended up disking mine under after about 3 years and only getting 3 cuttings of hay off it. Deer and turkeys did eat it, but it wasn't anything magical.

https://www.agmrc.org/commodities-products/fiber/industrial-hemp

Alabama non professional farmers need some weed advice.

Working up a deal similar to this with a guy I’m gonna rent my place to in 2020 after the lease is up with the current farmer.

No way in heck I’d plant the 60 in pines.

Challenge will be finding farmers willing to lease ground. Commodity prices are so low that not many farmers are looking for more ground to plant. Lots of fields available in my area. Many landowners from let people farm it for free just to maintain it

Ain't hard around here u don't c hardly any fields not planted with corn or beans if it ain't got cattle on it

The land I hunt used to be farmed by Mr. Wood Till, one of my examples of how to be a Christian man. At one time he planted mostly soybeans in the late 70's and 80's. The deer population boomed and it got to where they destroyed his crop. I had one field scoped out for an opening day. Put up a ladder and didn't go near it. Come opening day I went and saw from a decent distance that he had combined it so I went somewhere else. At church the next day I kiddingly told him how he ruined my plan and he said, "David, I didn't combine those beans. The deer did that." The next year he went to all cotton. Too many deer left from the soybean days that they ate his cotton. He told me it was particularly bad because they loved eating the bolls more than anything. He gave up farming after that and the landowner, in his quest to help the quail population, started planting strips of pines in the big fields to break them up and create artificial fencerows.

So yes, a hungry deer will eat cotton.

This could dumb down the big mature bucks in just the right amount while increasing antler growth (assuming the right percentage of protein).
Make them move more in day light looking for munchies, LOL.

And produce something moneywise that is easy to grow where can't get anyone to cut hay anymore.

Mr Wood Till was a great man indeed. But there's folks standing in line to rent any ground available up here. You got the upper hand if you got land that's tillable.

You are likely paying twice or triple per acre for the ag land vs pines. Would make no sense to pay that and plant it in pines. If you want pines that bad save yourself some money and look for another piece of property

It's really not priced that much higher though and it's got a nice 3/2 brick house on it and a couple of out buildings. It is more than just a pine plantation would be for sure, but I'm specifically looking for something with a house on it.

Same up and down the river valley in Jackson Co. Fence rows and woodlots being cleared and put back into production. Row crop farming wide open and doing well up here.

If you’re buying it strictly for hunting, I’d strategically cut some of the wooded 60 and negotiate a deal with the farmer to leave some crops in all the right places on the tillable 60. Use fire to keep the cut areas desirable for bedding and stay out of it. Maybe even let some ground go fallow. You’ll have the food and the bedding, and good hunting in between. I’d love to have a blank slate to lay out like I wanted. Good luck!

Yes. I have never seen anything like it. There is nothing that will compare. I've planted soybeans and clover in the same place the alfalfa stand was and neither of those attracted 1/3 the amount of deer that the Alfalfa did. Alfalfa is NOT hard to grow if you've got good soil. pH is a major concern. It must be right. I planted a Roundup Ready variety that I bought from 257, and sprayed it twice the first year and once a year afterward until it played out at year 5. I was going to plant it again last spring but didn't. Probably next spring even though I don't have the deer fever any more.

Thinking I'm planting some too fur now that I've got a no till drill.

Pine prices suck and probably will for decades. If reforestation is desired plant something else.

I just mixed it with a fertilizer blend and cultipacked the field after spreading. The drill will definitely be great but it can be planted and thrive even for folks who don't have one.

May try a plot too

How much sunlight does it need and do you have to mow it during summer months?

As much as it cost to establish, you’d want full sunlight

Yes full sun and well drained soil.

What is the max farmers pay to rent land in north west Alabama, that is row crop ready 257?And could you break it down what a farmer has in say a acre of beans,corn and cotton. Example seed cost fertilizer and rent .

Oh man there's so many variables.
Avg dryland rent $85-$175 per acre
Avg irrigated rent $150-$225 per acre

Soybeans $175-$225 input costs
Corn $300-$350 input costs
Cotton $275-$350 input costs

You gotta understand every operator can adjust these depending on his overall yield goals. And those are not including equipment, fuel, parts, labor etc costs. Doesn't take a math head to see why farming is tough

Don’t see how a farmer can stay in the black paying those rent $ with current bean & corn prices. Guess I need to get a bigger truck

So is it better to rent your land out or go in with farmer on seed and fertilizer so you can benefit on the tax side

Typically done one of two ways. Bushel split which be for example 75% to the farmer and 25% to the landowner.
Cash rent is the other option.

You don't HAVE to mow it during the summer, but it promotes more growth if you do. I cut an rolled mine for hay for the 1st 2 years. After that the deer didn't let it get large enough to mow.

I could cut it and 3 weeks later it would be 18" tall. It has an amazing growth rate when the soil is amended properly.

I limed and fertilized the piss out of it. When I planted I put 300# of 5-20-20 per acre. After that year I didn't add any N, but kept putting P&K on it.

Did you feed hay to your own stock or sell it? Always wondered if there was any $ to be made growing alfalfa

I fed it to our cattle. The way I cut the field, none of the rolls were pure alfalfa. I too thought I could make money baling and selling it, until I read about blister beetles. I don't intend to have to purchase liability insurance to sell hay. From what I read, if a horse eats just one part of a dead blister beetle, it's a dead horse. One thing for certain is that it makes incredible hay. The cows would clean the ground to bare dirt where we sat the rolls with alfalfa in them.

I may have had the only stand of alfalfa in the county that we live in and I don't know where blister beetles live when there is no alfalfa in an area but I can tell you they'll find an alfalfa field and set up house.

Share rent is by far best way to go for the farmer. Cash rent only benefits landowner. My guys prefer shares all day long. The landowner makes some big $$$ in good years on share rent.

Do neighbors grow big bucks or shoot brown it's down?

Typical share rent in this area goes like this:
Landowner pays 25% seed,tech, fertilizer,insecticide
Farmer pays other 75%
Landowner gets 25% farm gross
Farmer gets 75%

They also share govt payment and crop insurance.

Back in 2008-2013 lots of landowners were getting $200-$350 per acre on good crops.

Another share example is 80/20 share. On that one the landowner just gets 20% of farm gross with no expense shared. Farmer takes 80.

The caveat to this system is a dishonest farmer who puts his grain in his bins or moves cotton modules off a farm. It doesn't happen often but it has been done by a few. The community knows who they are for most part.

My little patch had corn on it this year , paid me right at $120 per acre on shares. They made it on yield this year. Least I've made in recent years is bout $90 per, that was the drought year. Had a farmer friend tell me the other day they've paid landowners $300+ per acre on cotton shares before. Now ya know why our row crop fields never got planted in pine. One of these days LA gonna catch up to us!

That's right

The numbers don’t compute to me. Top yielding corn is about 200 bu at 3.80 is $760/ac. After seed, fertilizer, and chemical cost it leaves 400/ac to plant, spray 3-4 times, harvest (with a $600,000 combine) and haul to market. So a farmer has $2M worth of equipment plus labor, fuel, insurance, etc,etc. How the hell can he pay $120 cash rent and break even? I don’t see it

I guess that's why you and me aren't farmers. I don't know how they do it , I just know they do.

That's why the stress level for 2019 is very high. Maybe highest it's been since 1980's. You can't count on 200bpa corn dryland year in year out either.

I agree. I keep thinking I want to get into it. Already own the equipment and the land, and I still can’t get it to pencil out. Damn if I’d invest all the money, do all the work, take all the risk and then give the landowners 80% of the profits. Just looks too fun not to try it though. And if I can make as much money as you & 257 think farmers are making I’ll be rich

Hell I know exactly what they're making. No guess to it. It ain't pretty right now.

$3 corn and $8 beans doesn’t leave much meat on the bone.

That’s why I say I can’t see how they are paying $120/ac rent. Don’t add up

Thank goodness for 80cent cotton right now

Many are paying $150-$200 cash rent in the TN valley. It's not healthy. Many growers are trying to renegotiate rents with lower cash up front but have performance bonus kickbacks. If I was a landowner I'd take lower cash rent to have a farmer that is financially stable and takes care of my ground. Most of the time the "farmers" out running around running up rent are the ones that will skimp on fertilizer or not maintain ph or roads. They are due to watch.

I cashed the check. Like I said our local boys made it on yield with all the rain this summer. I guess they hit a good lick on their cotton, too.

Must have some good ground

A major problem with rent value in our area is the land is broken into small fields. Around here a 40-50 ac ag field is considered large. Most farmers around here are planting 20-40 fields spread across 40 miles. A nice square large field would bring a premium

I’m not sure why no one has mentioned this to you yet, but your first move should be to PM Whild_Bill to ask for advice. He has all sorts of ideas supported by data on setting up property for maximum deer potential. He could tell you what to do, at least he knows what works for him.

257 how much, on average, do farmers own vs lease ground that they farm? Also what is an “average” size ag field in the territory you cover? Finally, how much of that ground is tiled and/or irrigated?

1. On avg 85% of ground farmed is rented
2. Field size depends on grower. On avg 50-60 acres field size
3. Very little is tiled for drainage at all and less than 10% irrigated all being due to rented ground.

As with everything there are outliers but I tried to show avg numbers like you asked. You gotta remember a farmer may have a 150-200 acre field up here but then he'll have a pile of 8-20 acre fields to kill the avg

In south Bama I have seen a lot of cotton that is still unpicked in the fields. I guess the twice a week rain is the main problem. With late picked cotton how much in loss of yield will there be or is it the loss of value in grade?

Equipment on cotton is higher than I thought. I was talking to a farmer the other day that had a big old new John Deer cotton picker, the one that wraps the round bales, and he said it was over $900,000 if I understood him right.

Cotton grade and yield takes a beating on falls like this. Y'all in S bama taking it way worse thank goodness we got done up here a few weeks ago. And yes a roller picker is high. Used ones hard to come by too. Brand new with no multi discounts will be mid $800k

Lots of beans still in fields around here. Need a combine mounted on pontoons to get them harvested

I would love to be able to do some high ground row crops. This reclaimed marsh we have down here is not suited for row crops. Hell ain't nothing down here suitable for row crops.

My neighbor is still picking for another local farmer off 280 going towards Columbus.

A friend of mine planted about 325 acres of peanuts in NW Fl and they are still in the ground, way too wet to even try and dig them. He is hoping with the insurance he will break even.