Energy is not everything, but the finest bullet on the planet with insufficient energy won't kill your target.

My personal minimum is about 1000 ft/lbs at distance, because a lot of bullets won't expand at lower velocities/energy levels. Way too much that can go wrong and takes too long to get there if/when it does.

25 yards? Shoot'em with whatever you like. .357 mag, 10 mm auto, .44 mag, .30 Carbine, makes no difference. Question wasn't about those though, it was about an effective caliber for hunting deer at 700-1000 yards. And 6.5 creed ain't it.

If you wouldn't shoot a deer at 250 yards with a .30-30, then you shouldn't shoot one at 1000 with a creed. Same energy, and the .30-30 has only dropped about 12-14 inches in 250 yards. At 1000 yards, the creed has dropped 24.6 feet. Just because the bullet is pointier doesn't mean it will still humanely kill a deer.

I really like a .25-06, but 450 yards is as far as I would ever think about using it

Just curious - Why G7 instead of G1? Is that in your program?

That is a G7 BC number. You're thinking of G1 BC numbers which is probably around .550 for that bullet. The G7 number works better for predicting down range ballistics.

I understand what you're saying but velocity at impact, not kinetic energy is what creates expansion. If a bullet impacts at 1500 FPS, there will be very little expansion and will pass through with little fragmentation and energy transfer to the animal. Bullets will kill in the same manner as an arrow by fragments severing blood vessels which carry oxygen to the body and brain. That's how you kill animals is by cutting off the oxygen and fragmenting bullets can do this in impressive fashion.

"Knockdown power" is generally a myth. If you've ever seen prairie dogs exploding after being shot with small varmint bullets at hyper velocity, that may be described as knockdown power. I once read that to get the equivalent results on deer sized animals you would have to use a 20 mm cannon. I've shot plenty of deer with big guns, and amazingly some of them run off even with a good shot. These are guns which some would call 'overkill' but I've yet to see anything beyond dead.

A few key logic gaps here: OP stated no shots in game past 700, and LRABS and others have expansion thresholds down to 1300fps.....both of which include heavy 6.5 creedmoor loads, among others often dismissed

Yes.. you can use either one.

...and G7 is generally accepted as a better algorithm for longer range accuracy in tables....but some calculators are about the same, whichever you use.

Who’s military? If you’re talking about the Canadian sniper it was actually on his 3rd shot after walking it in because he forgot to adjust for corleolis

A 6.5/284 running 140g bergers ar 3k FPS hits with less than 10% of energy than a 300wm pushing 190g bergers. It’s way more efficient regarding powder usage and much less recoil. That 10% difference matters not on bit. You DON’T need a magnum to kill effectively at 1000 yards. At 700 yards it really opens up your options

Very negligible. I'll stick with the 6.5 family all day. A bit off subject but I have my prc shooting a 100 gr ttsx just under 3500 fps with same hole accuracy. Plenty of powder room to go up too. Only got the 143 eldx up to 3100 fps so far but that's only with RL 26. Got case room to up that also.

IMO, if I just HAD to have appreciably more ‘power’ at long range than the best 6/6.5 stuff could give you, the next step would be the 175gr 7mm stuff at 2900-3150 or such....instead of the 30s. Still more efficient and at least as ‘powerful’. In the end, I don’t care to shoot game at true long ranges, if I could help it. Too many variables are introduced by a 2nd heartbeat to make guarantees. However, practicing out to 1k makes the normal hunting range shots, faster and more accurate for most anyone. JMO

The .30's are not my first choice either hard to beat a 7mm with the newer bullets. It has opened up the possibilities for the 7 mag. 7 SAUM is a show stopper as well. 280AI if you don't want a "magnum". Lots of good options. A 280 with a 175 grain would do the trick and still carry over 1,000lbs of energy at 800 yards.

I'm not against the .30's you just have to get into some larger bullets to get the ballistics and I personally don't think they are need for deer. You are talking 210's in a 300 Win Mag.


I'm shooting a 6.5x284 long action just shy of 3200 with a 142 SMK at paper or Accubonds (BC of 0.719) at animals. . It's skint back. Will kill a deer no problem out to 700 as long as I get a good solid hit in the vitals.

The 7 mag is definitely a better option at this point than the 30 calibers I agree with you there goat. If he already has a 300wsm then no need to add a gun unless the want is just there. As a matter of fact I have been trying to sell my WM to get into the 7mm family.

Just a heads up, but I haven’t seen ABLRs in the 7s, more like .645 for the 7mm stuff

I couldn't agree more and the 338 edge is another good one

Something in a 6.5. I’d go with a 26 nosler since I already have one but I know a few guys that have killed deer, antelope and a bear at 1000+ yards with a creedmoor

A bear at 1000 with a Creed ?

I'm crazy about my 338 ultra mag. 1000 yds would be no problem at all.

That 338 RUM will outshoot the 338 Lapua…..good cartridge

Thank you guys for all the information & I’ve personally learned a lot just from reading & researching what I’ve read off this forum. Good stuff to say the least!
Now, Why would 300 RUM be a bad caliber? Anyone care to educate me on it, No one has really touched on it. Thanks again everyone for the information & keep it coming!