That's enough to keep me away, right there.

About Amway, or masons?

I had thought long and hard about the above.
My grandfather and grandfather to my knowledge and understanding were Freemasons.

I had a lot of literature, books, and other things belonging to them, which I found after their passings.

The major issue I had per my own beliefs, and this is what kept me from pursuing, is the written doctrine, I read, is the Freemasons have in the belief of a "supreme being".

I will profess with my mouth and in this writing, the Lord Jesus Christ, is the one, and only way, to heaven.
I will not be ashamed of admitting so, and will not profess there are other "supreme being(s)" which would allow one to go to heaven.

It has to do with professing to others, there is a god other than Jesus Christ, in which Salvation is found.
To me, this is done, by not referring to Jesus Christ by name.
It may be petty to some, but just something I was convicted of when praying about the decision.

It doesn't have anything to do with the man being a good man, a good friend, a man that would go to the end of the world for me or someone else, and the community..
There are great men who are Freemasons. There are professors of Christ, who are Freemasons.

But it wasn't for me in my investigations and convictions, to become a Freemason.

God Bless,
David B.

they only ask that you believe in a higher power, in your case you do believe in a supreme being, his name is jesus.

Agree BOFF. John 14:6 is very clear to me. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I know two masons,one is a great guy and the other is a douche who considers the masons to be the ("the powers that be")! I just laugh at him,when he makes that statement.

This is a subject that I use to find great interest in and have researched and asked lots of questions about over the years. I'm not a member nor do I want to be. Actually the Discovery channel or one of the other cable channels did a couple hours documentary on this subject that was quite eye opening and could probably be found on youtube. It's an organization and they have a creed just as the Civitans, Jaycees, Chamber, Elks, KKK, Boy Scouts do, but of course they are not the same as those orgs and in fact very different. Apparently part of their creed or motto is secrecy and a very strong brotherhood such as the FOP. Really the only thing that irks my is the 'secret handshakes' and the fact that a member will let another member off of a crime just because they are brothers. I know this for a fact. I know this is just a general explanation of the Masons and that they typically are great people and do great things.

David, I think that's the best post in the thread, and is similar to my own convictions.

I never considered trying to join, but we have family in the lodge and I read a lot of material they gave me long ago. I also read some anti-lodge literature, and I think I got a reasonable understanding of it. I remember that one of the pro-lodge writers said that the lodge is not a religion - it is Religion. I am not sure of everything he meant by that, but I found it concerning. I read things that said that all good Masons go to heaven, yet they have lodges all over and many of them don't have any Christian members. As I understand it, a Mason is supposed to regard other Masons as his brothers, even more so than he would other Christians who are not in the lodge. Is that incorrect?

Some of the anti-lodge writers have declared it to be a religion, but that religion is a works based religion that isn't Christianity. That might be a harsh assessment, but I've read things that seemed to support it. I have good friends in the lodge that strongly disagree with that idea, but I have one friend who who is a Christian who went through the membership requirements and then denounced it. I got the worst view of the lodge from him. Some of the things he quoted to me that they had to memorize were not things that I would want to say.

I suspect that most who join do it because family were members and they enjoy the fellowship and service and don't take the spiritual aspect all that seriously. I think we could say the same thing about the majority of church members.

My mother was a member of the Eastern Star. I believe they have something to do with the Masons. Not sure tho. She was a grand matron, what ever that is. I always found their meetings creepy as a kid. She went to those meetings every Monday when I was a kid. My grandfather, her father, was pretty high up the chain too as a Mason. He was highly respected in the county. Why, I don’t know? I never heard of him doing much for others. I say all of that to say this. I was told that the Eastern Star and Masons were considered Christian organizations. When I became a Christian at 22 years of age I found it odd that their “Christian” organization excluded others and was very secretive. I don’t recall Christ pushing any of that in scripture. So, I never gave them a second thought, till now.

the masons believe in a universal monotheistic "great architect of the universe," not the triune God of christianity. any monotheistic religion is fine with them, including islam. there are isamic masons, for example ...

There's a cemetery on highway 11 in Trussville that has a huge, upside down, multicolored, 5 pointed star inland in the grounds that you can see from the highway. I always thought that was kind of unusual for a cemetery. I assume that's where the Freemasons are buried. I've never been much on symbolism or superstition, but I've always understood that an upside down pentagram was a symbol of Satan.

That is the insignia for the Eastern Star, the five points are represented by a women of the Bible. Adah, Ruth, Esther, Martha, Electa. A lesser known appendant to the Masonic Lodge is Job's Daughters for young women 10-20. The whole thing is just misinterpreted due to the sworn secrecy and the speculation around the secrecy. Its nothing more than a fraternity of supposedly well standing men and women which are supposed to be vouched for in good community standing. They are very charitable on both sides however the Shriners are known for their ability to contribute.

I can't speak for lodges in other countries, but I have attended regular meetings at masonic lodges in multiple states within the US. I was a born again Christian before I became a Mason, and I have never heard anything at a lodge meeting that was contrary to my Christian beliefs, nor have I ever heard anyone maintain that lodge membership or being a Mason was a substitute for church or for Christianity. I was not, nor was I witness to anyone else, professing or being encouraged to profess, a loyalty to any deity other than God, which to me, includes the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

It seems that some on this thread are determined to believe untrue things about freemasonry, despite multiple reassurances that they are in fact, not true. I am sure that the element of secrecy surrounding the lodge fosters this somewhat.

While I will never maintain that all Masons are good men (they are all human), almost all of the ones that I have known were fine individuals. I am not aware that any Mason has been forgiven for a crime just by virtue of him being a Mason, nor would I forgive such. The wording that I remember specifically refers to "worthy brother master Masons". I never took this to mean that criminal acts were allowed or should be overlooked, as those acts would prove to me that the man was NOT worthy.

OK. I'll give you all that, but... Why is the star upside down? That makes no sense.

Even the US military has used a 5 pointed star, but it has always been right side up.

The Eastern Star was organized in the 1850s, and the symbology of the star is that the downward point points to the place of Christ's nativity. The upside down pentagram did not become associated with the devil until Anton LaVey wrote the Satanic Bible in the 1960s. So other than that, which was completely made up by LaVey, there is nothing nefarious about an upside down star.

Freemasonry is not a religion or a substitute for religion, nor is it an exclusively Christian organization. There are some portions of other masonic bodies which are specifically Christian as a requirement, such as parts of the York Rite. It is an organization in which all faiths are welcome. The reason for espousing a belief in a "supreme being" is that an atheist has no moral compass which would hold him to the ideals. It's no different than being in a Rotary club with Jews, Hindus, whatever.

Not sure, Is it possible that the Order of the Eastern Star which was established in 1850 came first. How long has the pentagram inverted been used for Satanic practices... Seems as though if it was around they would chosen a different insignia? The only reference I could find was that a book came out in 1855 using reference to good pentagram/bad pentagram.

My Dad was a mason my brother is too. I'm not wasn't interested in it then or now. Given my current life it's probably for the best I'm not. Nothing against masons or lodges.

Seems to me that at least one thing is for sure with regard to the masons and that is that most of them seem to disagree with whether or not they recognize God, a supreme being, architect, etc... I read above where some say they have been to several lodges and hear only the name of God. Then you read where someone else says that it’s not JUST God that’s recognized. I know (and have known) several masons personally, from the same lodge, and some will say their lodge is God fearing, and others have got out of the organization because it goes against the Bible. Seems to me that it’s hard to get two of them to tell exactly what the organization as a whole believes. I’m not being mean about it, just pointing out the contradictions. Personally, I would want a little more clarity if I were a member.

I’m a member of Sons of the American Legion. We drank beer there and shoot pool. Fun times!