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Zeiss
by OutdoorBug. 02/04/25 09:20 PM
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16 registered members (Longtine, bucky, bhammedic84, odocoileus, BAMA RUGER, T-hatchie, jake5050, Mulcher, dave260rem!, TexasHuntress, turkey247, Jtide, JohnG, paintrock, 2 invisible),
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Todd1700]
#293699
02/27/12 05:05 PM
02/27/12 05:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 Birmingham
truedouble
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
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So why do you want hunting over a pile of corn legalized? Here is a fundamental difference between you and me. I don't think people should have to prove why things should be legal. I think the state should have to show a good reason why something should be illegal. But as to your question, because it would be great to be able to continue the supplemental feeding of our deer through season (two and a half months when they need it most) without fear of passing too close to one of the feeders and getting a ticket. I've said before that my opinion somewhat changes when talking about the very, very few that supplemental feed year around that want to continue to be able to do so legally during the season. That being said, I don't know of too many deer herds in Alabama that are in dire need of additional food that come from feeders during these 60 degree winters we are having. If food is a problem then most likely it's b/c you have too many mouths to feed on the property. We don't have feeders and our deer are plenty healthy. And you are correct, I don't agree with your first statement. That mentality is flawed from the beginning when you are talking about wildlife, IMO. Again, where do you draw the line?
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Todd1700]
#293707
02/27/12 05:17 PM
02/27/12 05:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 Birmingham
truedouble
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
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There you go again. Just call it like it is... If you want hunting over corn piles legalized you think it's going to help you kill more bucks and down deep you know that it could also help you kill a mature bucks.
Blah, Blah, Blah, another post long on questions and devoid of answers. Because you have none like everyone else on your side of this debate. 1. in your opinion what percentage of pro-baiters feed year around? 2. in light of the obvious answer to #1 why do you think most pro-baiters want bait legalized? Every single person I have know that has ever baited did so b/c they felt it would increase their odds of killing a big buck. So, then why do so many pro-baiters on this forum throw out disclaimers about how "corn isn't the magic bullet" or "you aint ever going to kill a mature buck over corn" or "big bucks don't come to corn during the day" or " I just want it legalized cause everyone else is already doing it"? By the way, my post above was short and had no questions...for someone as astute as yourself on definitions should know the difference between a question and a statement. ![wink wink](/forum/images/graemlins/default/wink.gif)
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: truedouble]
#293712
02/27/12 05:19 PM
02/27/12 05:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,939 Pine Hill, Al
Todd1700
12 point
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12 point
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,939
Pine Hill, Al
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Again, where do you draw the line? Of course there needs to be bag limits and a closed season so you don't wipe out the species. I am also fine with requiring the use of a weapon/ammo that is consistently capable of making a clean kill on the animal in question. There are also many safety related regulations that need to be in place as well. You don't really want me to list all the laws that fall into those categories do you? The bottom line is that most game laws have a logical reason for existing. But the current state of affairs with baiting is stupid, vague, inconsistent and has no sound factual reason for existing. If the world were filled with people like you that never questioned a law then women still wouldn't be able to vote.
The best index to a person’s character is (a) how he treats people who can’t do him any good, and (b) how he treats people who can’t fight back. - Abigail van Buren
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: truedouble]
#293717
02/27/12 05:28 PM
02/27/12 05:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180 Coffee Co, AL
jlccoffee
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,180
Coffee Co, AL
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[ 1. in your opinion what percentage of pro-baiters feed year around?
What percentage of food plot planters plant year round? I know of very few that plant summer plots compared to the many that plant cool season plots.
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: WmHunter]
#293718
02/27/12 05:30 PM
02/27/12 05:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494 Jefferson
Fun4all
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494
Jefferson
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If corn baiting is legalized there is going to be a LOT of conflict between neighboring landowners.
Just imagine all the small properties surrounding larger properties (or whatever)and folks are lining propery lines with corn feeders. It is bad enough that people are lining property lines with greenfields. If passed there will be "the battle of the corn feeders" going on.
Legalized baiting will just make for more conflict. It is bad public policy. What happens if a neighboring land owner can see your feeder from his stand, is he breaking the baiting law? From what I read in the bill yes. Just because the feeder is on somebody else's property does not mean that he would not shoot a deer that was on his property but could see your feeder. Or, since everybody is regulary accused outlaw baiting now, since he is an accused outlaw now he will just shoot a deer on your property under your feeder? Will legalized baiting prevent that?
"After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Todd1700]
#293719
02/27/12 05:38 PM
02/27/12 05:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 Birmingham
truedouble
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
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Again, where do you draw the line? Of course there needs to be bag limits and a closed season so you don't wipe out the species. I am also fine with requiring the use of a weapon/ammo that is consistently capable of making a clean kill on the animal in question. There are also many safety related regulations that need to be in place as well. You don't really want me to list all the laws that fall into those categories do you? The bottom line is that most game laws have a logical reason for existing. But the current state of affairs with baiting is stupid, vague, inconsistent and has no sound factual reason for existing. If the world were filled with people like you that never questioned a law then women still wouldn't be able to vote. so....anti baiters = male chauvinist? Hmmm, very interesting observation there.
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: jlccoffee]
#293720
02/27/12 05:41 PM
02/27/12 05:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 Birmingham
truedouble
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
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[ 1. in your opinion what percentage of pro-baiters feed year around?
What percentage of food plot planters plant year round? I know of very few that plant summer plots compared to the many that plant cool season plots. Probably only 10% or so plant summer plots, would be my guess, but with the various mixes out there most annuals provide food for deer 10 months out of the year. Don't think there is much debate over the benefit of foodplots vs. bait piles from 10-15 to 1-31.
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: jlccoffee]
#293721
02/27/12 05:43 PM
02/27/12 05:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494 Jefferson
Fun4all
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494
Jefferson
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[ 1. in your opinion what percentage of pro-baiters feed year around?
What percentage of food plot planters plant year round? I know of very few that plant summer plots compared to the many that plant cool season plots. Are foodplot needed year round? Or, are they good for providing winter forage during a stressful time of the year up til the woods start greening up? Also, a person can provide supplemental feed from trough, spincaster, etc now during the season or wait until after the season to feed "bait/feed" and not worry about the "baiting" police. Problem solved!
"After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Frankie]
#293733
02/27/12 06:07 PM
02/27/12 06:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363 Montgomery
WmHunter
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,363
Montgomery
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well , i don't care what the guy next door kills . they just as much theirs as mine some thing a few are forgetting these days . You miss the whole point. Here is a hint: assume you are a landOWNER and do not believe in baiting (read CORN) and then a bunch of redneck goobers either own or lease land next to you and saturate that property with corn feeders and corn piles. As a basic lesson in civics, one of the fundamental considerations behind any proposed law is minimizing as opposed to creating conflict. The proposed baiting law WILL create serious conflict. It is inevitable. Besides, corn baiting is for homo redneck commie pig dog goobers. ![wink wink](/forum/images/graemlins/default/wink.gif)
"The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
" Chuck Sykes is a dictator control freak like Vladimir Putin " WmHunter
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Skinny]
#293739
02/27/12 06:15 PM
02/27/12 06:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494 Jefferson
Fun4all
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494
Jefferson
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So a couple of questions for those that say that the State has taken away the liberty of private property owners/hunters by not allowing a certain form of food distribution (i.e. pouring bait out of a bag).
Should the State be allowed to manage the States resources that are free roaming and can travel between individual property owners properties?
Should the State be able to control what method that can be used to harvest the States resources and for how long those methods can be employed?
History has proven that leaving it up to each individual land owner to do what is best for the States resources does not work without some type of general rules. If you will recall prior to States starting to manage their resources market hunting just about wiped out deer in many States including Alabama.
Currently, under the rules as I understand them "baiting" and year round feeding are legal if you do them in a way that stays within the general rules established by the party responsible for managing the resource. In my opinion, I have provided ideas in which "baiting" would be legal under the current regulations. Of course a person would have to decide for themselves or ask the State whether those ideas would be legal in their eyes.
So did the State really take away a right or liberty from private property owners/hunters to manage the State's resource? Or, did they provide a management framework and allow private property owners/hunters an opportunity to make decisions on how they manage their property inside those general rules and allow for the continued replenishment of the resource for future enjoyment?
"After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Skinny]
#293770
02/27/12 06:51 PM
02/27/12 06:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,749 Baldwin County, AL
longspur69
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,749
Baldwin County, AL
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quote: "Here is a fundamental difference between you and me. I don't think people should have to prove why things should be legal. I think the state should have to show a good reason why something should be illegal."
Hear hear! Well said, good man!!!
Last edited by longspur69; 02/27/12 06:52 PM.
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Skinny]
#293774
02/27/12 06:58 PM
02/27/12 06:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 Birmingham
truedouble
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
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I agree that baiting wouldn't destroy the deer herd. I'm against it b/c there isn't anything good about it. No good reason to legalize it. I've seen four reasons so far. 1. "b/c everyone already does it" 2. "so I can feed year around without getting a ticket" 3. b/c the state shouldn't have any say on what I do on my property 4. (a new one) b/c the state should have to prove it's bad before they make it illegal.
#1 is never a reason to make anything legal, but seems to be one of the favorites among pro-baiters. #2 is somewhat legit but simply defining how far one must be from a feeder would fix that. Such as at least 300 yds from a feeder and feeder can't be seen. Besides feeding supplemental feed year around is something most trophy clubs do to maximize antler potential, not to make sure the deer don't die out during the long cold winters we have in Alabama. #3 we as a society have already proven that we need certain guidelines. We aren't responsible enough anymore to enjoy complete uninhibited freedom. #4 Sounds great but I'm not sure some things can be "proven" to be good or bad. Maybe just the mere fact that baiting doesn't help the deer herd and the fact that baiting in this state has never been legal coupled by the possible issues with baiting is enough to say let's don't legalize it. If it aint broke don't fix it kind of thing. There are quite a few experts and biologist that are completely against baiting and don't have a dog in the fight. So while "proof" may be hard to come by expert, unbiased opinions are not.
Have the Feds "proven" that a 6 duck per day limit is the magical number and that any less would not be fair to hunters but any more would cause a decline in duck numbers? Don't think so...
Last edited by truedouble; 02/27/12 07:03 PM.
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Skinny]
#293786
02/27/12 07:22 PM
02/27/12 07:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788 Thomasville, AL
Hogwild
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 12,788
Thomasville, AL
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What do bait and limits have to with each other??? You keep referencing the fact that 'more' deer, or 'bigger' deer will be killed? If too many are killed, lower the limit?? I don't know what to do about the downside of killing bigger deer???? ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default/smile.gif) I still say that you should have to provide a STRONG reason with lots of credible evidence to make something ILLEGAL. Not, have to prove why it should be legal. Maybe that is the approach that the State needs to take. No need to write a new Law....just repeal the one in effect now!
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Hogwild]
#293792
02/27/12 07:29 PM
02/27/12 07:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,565 Alabama
jmj120
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,565
Alabama
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What do bait and limits have to with each other??? You keep referencing the fact that 'more' deer, or 'bigger' deer will be killed? If too many are killed, lower the limit?? I don't know what to do about the downside of killing bigger deer???? ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default/smile.gif) I still say that you should have to provide a STRONG reason with lots of credible evidence to make something ILLEGAL. Not, have to prove why it should be legal. Maybe that is the approach that the State needs to take. No need to write a new Law....just repeal the one in effect now! Some seem to think baiting would make it easier to kill a buck, I think that's where the limit talk is coming from. Why not just do like Texas and be done with it?
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Hogwild]
#293823
02/27/12 08:04 PM
02/27/12 08:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494 Jefferson
Fun4all
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,494
Jefferson
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Quote 1:
If too many are killed, lower the limit??
From another Hogwild post, quote 2: "Another HUGE irony in your distorted view...... Quote: give them more freedom Exactly how does that work??? Somebody TOOK the freedom to begin with. But, you would have the audacity to suggest that is wrong to want it back??????" Do these two quotes look familiar??? And then turn around and state with authority "If too many are killed, lower the limit??" Who is suggesting the taking away of freedoms????????
"After all, it is not the killing that brings satisfaction; it is the contest of skill and cunning. The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport." Dr. Saxton Pope
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: truedouble]
#293825
02/27/12 08:05 PM
02/27/12 08:05 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997 Warrior River Country
49er
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,997
Warrior River Country
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I agree that baiting wouldn't destroy the deer herd. I'm against it b/c there isn't anything good about it. No good reason to legalize it... My reason to repeal the law trumps all of your reasons for it to remain in effect, and I wouldn't hunt over bait if it was legal: Constitution of Alabama 1901 SECTION 35 Objective of government. That the sole object and only legitimate end of government is to protect the citizen in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and property, and when the government assumes other functions it is usurpation and oppression.
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Hogwild]
#293827
02/27/12 08:07 PM
02/27/12 08:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539 Birmingham
truedouble
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,539
Birmingham
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What do bait and limits have to with each other??? You keep referencing the fact that 'more' deer, or 'bigger' deer will be killed? If too many are killed, lower the limit?? I don't know what to do about the downside of killing bigger deer???? ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default/smile.gif) I still say that you should have to provide a STRONG reason with lots of credible evidence to make something ILLEGAL. Not, have to prove why it should be legal. Maybe that is the approach that the State needs to take. No need to write a new Law....just repeal the one in effect now! So why not legalize spot lighting? As long as no one kills more than 3 bucks a season and one doe a day, what's the harm? Contrare to what you pro-baiters think everyone doesn't feel that foodplots and corn piles are the same thing. I know y'all seem to think your opinions are facts but they aren't..
Last edited by truedouble; 02/27/12 08:23 PM.
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: WmHunter]
#293834
02/27/12 08:13 PM
02/27/12 08:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,749 Baldwin County, AL
longspur69
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,749
Baldwin County, AL
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well , i don't care what the guy next door kills . they just as much theirs as mine some thing a few are forgetting these days . You miss the whole point. Here is a hint: assume you are a landOWNER and do not believe in baiting (read CORN) and then a bunch of redneck goobers either own or lease land next to you and saturate that property with corn feeders and corn piles. As a basic lesson in civics, one of the fundamental considerations behind any proposed law is minimizing as opposed to creating conflict. The proposed baiting law WILL create serious conflict. It is inevitable. Besides, corn baiting is for homo redneck commie pig dog goobers. For starters, why should the landowner who doesn't want to hunt over corn have precedent over his redneck goober neighbors? I was unaware that a fundamental consideration of law was to minimize conflict. I'm sick of raking leaves and picking up sticks that fall in my yard from my neighbors tree. Maybe the state should ban trees in yards. And I don't know any homo hunters. I might be a redneck. But I have to say making something illegal for no apparent reason sounds more commie to me. With that said, that was a pretty funny statement.
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Re: New Baiting Bill from the Senate
[Re: Skinny]
#293843
02/27/12 08:18 PM
02/27/12 08:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,749 Baldwin County, AL
longspur69
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,749
Baldwin County, AL
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49er, that was well crafted. Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, we have a winner. For my short time on this forum, I hope you don't mind me saying you're kind of like Ron Paul. There are about 2 percent of things I strongly disagree with you on (so I might not vote for you for President), but for everything else you're right on the button.
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