Sounds a little far fetcher to me. How do you know the one you heard was older? How do you know he was dominate and it was him that ran the "3 YO" buck off and not the opposite ? It was dark, right? I think some of the conclusions you come to may really not be what you are observing. I too think you're putting way too much into some of this stuff without enough observations and patterns.

I don’t see where any part of it is far-fetched really……What is it you think is unrealistic….that an older deer would snort-wheeze and break limbs to show aggression toward another buck??.....A lot of the opinions and ideas I have on things come from a lot more than a one off observation. I’ve lived here for the past 15 years watching deer….and not just watching a little bit either. When my boys were born and I had to stay at home with them I literally spent years watching and observing behavior every single day. The year of the story I told I sat out on my back porch for an hour or two each night for 20 straight nights watching the rut unfold from start the finish. There were several nights when the rutting activity was so crazy and entertaining that I said “piss on hunting tomorrow……I’ll sleep in….this is way more fun anyways”…… This past season after Christmas I hunted and/or tracked deer every single day except for two until the end of the season. I’ve spent a ton of time trying to learn and understand as much as I could about deer and food plotting, etc…..These aren’t just opinions an occasional weekend warrior is slinging around a campfire…..But now hey….I completely concede that I may be wrong about some things….It’s part of it and I don’t have any issues being wrong about an idea or theory……..

As to why I thought it was an older buck….a lot of it was simply based on behavior and the vocalizations he was using. There were a couple or few bucks that would walk up the woodline and hang out there never coming any closer. They had a unique grunt that I never saw any of the young bucks use. It was almost eery when they did it because it sounded literally like a “monster”….not moster buck but scary in your nightmares monster…..It would be one long deep growl like grunt. They also reeked of rutty buck so bad I could smell them from 60-70 yards away.

It may have been the same buck but on another night I’m watching something like 12-13 does feeding in the clover and young bucks are oeriodically passing through and messing with them. Every so often I’d hear something off to the side that would snap some dog fennel over or sound like something maybe pawing the ground….or something that you thought was grunt but not sure of,,,,etc….Just over and over again it was something happening to make you think ….Damn, there’s got to be a deer over there in the corner. I had an old scope with me just for the purpose of being able to get a better look at ones that passed by along the edges and stuff. I was scanning real slow and bam I caught hin rubbing a tree and working a licking branch…He probably thought he was out of the light but he was just right on the very edge of where it faded out. He was standing there watching the doe he was currently tending and the noises I was hearing was him posturing toward the younger bucks. This one young buck came in doing that “Erp, erp, erp, erp, erp” grunt that they often do and for whatever reason it smooth pissed him off. As that young buck left I picked up on the old one taking off running toward the direction of the young one. He chased him around in a little circle for a moment and it sounded like a mule trying to stomp and kill a dog. He let out of sound that reminded me a little of a pissed off stud horse too..... The young buck ran off and he returned to his little corner.

I'll throw another theory or idea out there that some folks..... actually probably many folks will think is crazy horse chit....

We've.all herd it said over and over again that once the rut gets here then there's no telling what a buck might do during that time....it's just here today gone tomorrow....no patterning ....no rhyme or reason looking for hot tail.....I disagree.with that notion now though. Now I'm not saying I can tell you a bunch of exact details about any one given buck......but overall I think the things they do are actually pretty predicable. There are certain patterns in their behavior.that ate repeated over and over. I actually think that the older dominated bucks do very,very little willy nilly roaming the countryside randomly

We can agree on that, I've posted it here several times. The dominate buck in a area isn't very dominate if he goes on a walkabout out of his area when breeding begins.

Ive seen 5-7 year old dominate bucks go on walk abouts, walk arounds and walk to deaths on numerous occasions. Granted, I think it happens less than with 2-3 year old bucks as a general rule, but BIG deer do a heck of a lot of roaming. And I mean miles and miles of it.

To take a walk about and use it to say that old bucks roam for miles and miles is a little misleading..

Walk abouts is a pretty.i tersti.g subject in and of itself??....What is y'all's opinions on the reason for them? Is there any common threads amongst them

I do believe during the rut they roam for miles. Just like us guys that drive for several hundred miles to go see a girl. Its all about getting laid.

They are all individuals .
I've a wall full of 4YO and older bucks that were killed within a couple hundred yards of where I got pics of them year around ,including in season. I've also got some that I never had a pic or seen or the neighbors didn't either. If your property has food , water, cover , plenty of does and low pressure , I feel strongly they are less likely to roam.
I just don't think the dominate buck in a particular area is going very far in prime breeding time. He wouldn't be very dominate if he abandons his area at prime time. Mature doesn't mean dominate , like wise dominate doesn't always mean mature. A big, aggressive 3 YO can be dominate , even though there are several older bucks in the area.

Some do , some don't , once again they are individuals.

Individuals is the key. They’re all different. That’s been proven by gps studies. I don’t like throwing around average Home ranges and core areas because although an average exist, the range is ridiculously varied from deer to deer. CNC, I too, think you’re overthinking this. Lol. Some bucks have characteristics that lead to more day light activity and movement. They usually see fewer birthdays. Others don’t move much in day light and see more birthdays. That has little to do with where they spend their time, but when they spend it. Another interesting thing. I’ve seen deer that you couldn’t see from ages 2-3 no matter where/how you hunted. Then at 4/5 and older they become so visible anybody could kill them. That goes against traditional deer behavior understanding, but it happens quite often.

Here’s how I perceive it to being playing out………

I think the amount that a buck is gonna “roam” during the rut is gonna depend on how much he HAS to roam. That will be determined by a couple of things…..One will be the density and distribution of does around him comparted to the number of other bucks competing for them……The other will be a dynamic shuffling totem pole of dominance. I think that totem pole kind of has two sections of it as well with the old dogs being on the top without a whole lot of shuffling and then the young and middle aged bucks underneath that where there is a lot going on to determine who’s who. Think back to high school and how things played out and its not to unsimilar. The dyanamics of how that totem pole is shuffling will change from the start of the rut to the end as well as the number of does needing to be bred changes from a few to a lot and then back to a few……

I'll expand on this in a lit bit....

anytime you try t put a tag on deer as to how or why they will act yer fkn up. Deer are individuals and will act in ways you cannot comprehend at times you will not anticipate. Like Mr Brock said .

I enjoy reading your comments CNC. You are a tracker, a hunter, and you live where you can study deer, which provides a unique perspective. I used to think I was a pretty good deer hunter, but the older I get, the smarter the older deer I hunt seem to get. I do enjoy hunting them, and doing my best to try and shoot the older ones. They are unique. I have one that is 6+ years old on a 100 acres piece we own. Many pictures, and I've changed it up on him a lot (ground, ladder, climbers, plots), always hunt the wind, etc. Never seen him in person. He does mess up during the rut, but I've never been there when he did. I have made the lanes you mention on a few of our plots, and they work, exactly the way you said they do. Personally, I'm always looking for a tip to do better at harvesting a big one, thus why I enjoy reading this. Keep writing.........

Thanks, I appreciate....glad to see folks just enjoying the conversation and different perspectives....

Continuing on...…

Just like with the being back in high school analogy…….You had your popular/dominant males and your weaker ones and some in between…..while at the same time each person in the group still had their own unique personality…..I think the deer are much the same……I completely agree that they are all individuals but at the same time they is still some order to it…..The rut is not just a completely random free for all with every buck roaming the countryside in search of a piece of stray……I think most of the older bucks that have been around a while likely start the rut by moving back into a known are that they have used in the past where there is a good concentration of doe groups. I’m gonna use what I’ve observed here at my place as example…..this doesn’t mean every situation plays out just the same exact way…..

When the rut starts getting close the older bucks are gonna start being willing to leave the safety of their sanctuary they have been using. I think the vast majority of them have a place in mind where they have used in years prior that they know holds high concentration of does. This may be right in their back yard and they never really go anywhere or it may be down the street a little ways. They return to a known hot spot and stake their claim just ahead of the does going hot….now again….a lot is depending on how the doe groups are distributed and where he beds and hides in relation to that the rest of the year……In any event, he’s not just simply getting on his feet and taking off into wild blue yonder with no rhyme or reason to it.

Alright so our old bucks go back to that location just ahead of the first does going hot and they put down some rubs and scrapes so that everyone that passes through will know he’s the man…..What I see them doing here at my place is bedding up in strategic locations where a lot of the doe groups converge as they head from bedding to feed. Here’s an example of what I’m saying…

There’s a square pine thicket next to me that transitions down into a little creek bottom and then back up into my big plot on the other side. There’s usually several doe groups that hang out in there… some with 2 or 3 does in some groups and 5 or 6+ in others. One group might bed somewhere down the northern edge, another group may run and use the south side/edge, and other may be somewhere off in the pines, etc,.etc…. When they get up and start moving toward my field they all converge at one corner of the square where it goes out onto a little small ridge point ridge point right before it drops into the bottom and over to my big food plot. Right there on that ridge point is where a an older buck will bed up every year…time and time again….. This allows him to check for the first doe going hot as they pass by….He’s not out randomly looking for across the countryside….He’s going to where he know there’s a bunch of females and then waiting on the first one to pop……I actually have more than just that one spot where bucks will do this…

I’m just getting started so bear with me….I’ve got to do some honey do’s……I’ll pick back up there in a little while.

If it was only that simple. Data proves they roam for no other reason than just because, even if all their perceived needs are met.

Here's how I see that.....very few things in nature do things "just because"....There is a purpose and a reason for just about all of it....The data may show them roaming but it doesn't tell you about all.of the possibilities of why. It's highly likely that we just don't understand what was happening and other variables that may have been influencing outside of basic needs

Well I agree with that. There’s a lot of “just because” no one has figured out, especially deer behavior. Personally, I think they’re wired to naturally go out to ensure genetic variability.