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Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3130958
05/26/20 09:54 PM
05/26/20 09:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,933
LASW
turkey247 Offline
12 point
turkey247  Offline
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Posts: 4,933
LASW
Thing is, the southern U.S. has an ever changing landscape. If you add enough water and weather, which the south has an abundance, nothing stays the same very long. The southern landscape will always change with or without man’s help.

Not to make light of it, but I get a kick out of someone thinking that land should be protected this way or that, to look like they found it or remember it, or how they want it to look. It just doesn’t work that way, especially in the south.

Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3130979
05/26/20 11:41 PM
05/26/20 11:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,827
Florida
J
jacannon Online content
10 point
jacannon  Online Content
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J
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Posts: 2,827
Florida
I enjoyed reading that. My ancestors came to the Ala territory by wagon train from SC in Jan. of 1818 and settled in Brewton. I have been reading my family genealogy lately and this fit right in. My Great Great grandfather was born in Oakey Streak in 1856 and cut timber for Alger Sullivan lumber co.


Grandma said...Always keep a gun close at hand, you just never know when you might run across some varmint that needs killing...
Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3130982
05/27/20 03:20 AM
05/27/20 03:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 5,588
Lee County, Alabama
dBmV Offline
12 point
dBmV  Offline
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Posts: 5,588
Lee County, Alabama
I drive hwy 80 between Montgomery and Selma fairly often. I've always thought how some of that landscape reminds me of Kansas. I never knew that was how a lot of the state looked naturally.


What you do today, you have to sleep with tonight.
Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: jacannon] #3131000
05/27/20 05:05 AM
05/27/20 05:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,743
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline
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Lickskillet, AL
Originally Posted by jacannon
I enjoyed reading that. My ancestors came to the Ala territory by wagon train from SC in Jan. of 1818 and settled in Brewton. I have been reading my family genealogy lately and this fit right in. My Great Great grandfather was born in Oakey Streak in 1856 and cut timber for Alger Sullivan lumber co.


My mother's side also came to Alabama by wagon from South Carolina by way of Georgia. It was during the Alabama land rush know as "Alabama Fever". They settled near what is now Chelsea, AL. They were Kendricks and founded a place known as "Kendrick Springs" or more commonly known today as "K Springs."

Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: dBmV] #3131003
05/27/20 05:10 AM
05/27/20 05:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,743
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline
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Lickskillet, AL
Originally Posted by dBmV
I drive hwy 80 between Montgomery and Selma fairly often. I've always thought how some of that landscape reminds me of Kansas. I never knew that was how a lot of the state looked naturally.


People don't think of Buffalo being in the Southeast but they were here. Not in the numbers of the Great Plains, but especially in places like Kentucky they were plentiful. Buffalo Trace Bourbon is not named that just because it's a cool name. Some modern highways still follow the paths of old buffalo traces in the southeast and most of those eventually led to a mineral lick somewhere.

Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: daylate] #3131007
05/27/20 05:21 AM
05/27/20 05:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,108
Buc-ee’s Beach Express
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Originally Posted by daylate
Far less than 1% of virgin Bald Cypress trees survived the great logging age following the Civil War but they do exist and some of the still living trees are over 2500 years old. I know of one freakishly enormous tree deep in the Escambia River swamp that is in such a difficult place to get to that the loggers never got it. I would love to know how old that gigantic tree is.



There’s information about that tree in the Escambia County museum located on the campus of Coastal Community College in Brewton. Pretty cool museum.


Proud Army and ALNG veteran
God Bless America!
Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3131010
05/27/20 05:30 AM
05/27/20 05:30 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,363
On the X
T
TickaTicka Offline
12 point
TickaTicka  Offline
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T
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 6,363
On the X
When Boone came through the Cumberland gap he described the vast prairies and cane breaks. A much different landscape than what it is now. Make sense that alabama would be no different.


Public Land Owner
Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3131023
05/27/20 06:03 AM
05/27/20 06:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,669
FL
daylate Offline
10 point
daylate  Offline
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FL
The land we used to hunt in Dallas County had a lot of cane breaks, grasslands with cedars, and wild roses. It had a lot of planted pines too but for some reason, the prairie looking areas were not planted.

Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: Irishguy] #3131031
05/27/20 06:14 AM
05/27/20 06:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,287
Hartselle, AL
N
NWALJM Offline OP
10 point
NWALJM  Offline OP
10 point
N
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,287
Hartselle, AL
Originally Posted by Irishguy
Originally Posted by dBmV
I drive hwy 80 between Montgomery and Selma fairly often. I've always thought how some of that landscape reminds me of Kansas. I never knew that was how a lot of the state looked naturally.


People don't think of Buffalo being in the Southeast but they were here. Not in the numbers of the Great Plains, but especially in places like Kentucky they were plentiful. Buffalo Trace Bourbon is not named that just because it's a cool name. Some modern highways still follow the paths of old buffalo traces in the southeast and most of those eventually led to a mineral lick somewhere.


Nice offshoot with the Buffalo discussion. We visited Land Between The Lakes in KY a couple years ago and went over to the Bison and Elk Prairie that they've established in the park as a way to somehow try and preserve what the landscape may have looked like before European contact. Western Kentucky had a lot of acreage that was labeled as "Barrens" by the first documented explorers of the region, from the Cumberland River westward. Also seeing waterways named the Buffalo River and the Elk River are likely hints at the fact that they were here at one time.

Here is another interesting read on the topic of Buffalo in the SE with some references to historical writings about them being here at one time.

Did The Buffalo Roam?

Last edited by NWALJM; 05/27/20 06:16 AM.
Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3131069
05/27/20 07:16 AM
05/27/20 07:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,743
Lickskillet, AL
Irishguy Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Irishguy  Offline
a.k.a. Dingle Johnson
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 22,743
Lickskillet, AL
Originally Posted by NWALJM
Originally Posted by Irishguy
Originally Posted by dBmV
I drive hwy 80 between Montgomery and Selma fairly often. I've always thought how some of that landscape reminds me of Kansas. I never knew that was how a lot of the state looked naturally.


People don't think of Buffalo being in the Southeast but they were here. Not in the numbers of the Great Plains, but especially in places like Kentucky they were plentiful. Buffalo Trace Bourbon is not named that just because it's a cool name. Some modern highways still follow the paths of old buffalo traces in the southeast and most of those eventually led to a mineral lick somewhere.


Nice offshoot with the Buffalo discussion. We visited Land Between The Lakes in KY a couple years ago and went over to the Bison and Elk Prairie that they've established in the park as a way to somehow try and preserve what the landscape may have looked like before European contact. Western Kentucky had a lot of acreage that was labeled as "Barrens" by the first documented explorers of the region, from the Cumberland River westward. Also seeing waterways named the Buffalo River and the Elk River are likely hints at the fact that they were here at one time.

Here is another interesting read on the topic of Buffalo in the SE with some references to historical writings about them being here at one time.

Did The Buffalo Roam?


They mentioned "forested areas" but likes was mentioned earlier in this thread large areas of the southeast were grasslands. Especially in "The Bluegrass State."

Interesting in that article they mention William McIntosh. My 6th great grandfather was also a Creek chief and he ordered and had William McIntosh killed. Killed his sons too.

Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: daylate] #3131085
05/27/20 07:55 AM
05/27/20 07:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,839
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
jawbone Online content
Freak of Nature
jawbone  Online Content
Freak of Nature
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 26,839
Fayetteville TN Via Selma
Originally Posted by daylate
The land we used to hunt in Dallas County had a lot of cane breaks, grasslands with cedars, and wild roses. It had a lot of planted pines too but for some reason, the prairie looking areas were not planted.


Because the landowners enjoy watching Florida Man show up with his jacked up, $85,000 truck thinking it will negotiate the Prairie soil. That usually ends up being a two tractor job.

The truth is that soil is not very conducive to growing pines.


Lord, please help us get our nation straightened out.
Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: jawbone] #3131097
05/27/20 08:11 AM
05/27/20 08:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,089
Round ‘bout there
C
Clem Offline
Mildly Quirky
Clem  Offline
Mildly Quirky
C
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 52,089
Round ‘bout there
Originally Posted by jawbone
Originally Posted by daylate
The land we used to hunt in Dallas County had a lot of cane breaks, grasslands with cedars, and wild roses. It had a lot of planted pines too but for some reason, the prairie looking areas were not planted.


Because the landowners enjoy watching Florida Man show up with his jacked up, $85,000 truck thinking it will negotiate the Prairie soil. That usually ends up being a two tractor job.

The truth is that soil is not very conducive to growing pines.


Florida Man and the next two owners will find that mud somewhere on that truck for the next 25 years, too. That mud's like herpes. Never goes away.


"Hunting Politics are stupid!" - Farm Hunter

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Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: Clem] #3131111
05/27/20 08:43 AM
05/27/20 08:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,669
FL
daylate Offline
10 point
daylate  Offline
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Posts: 3,669
FL
Originally Posted by Clem
Originally Posted by jawbone
Originally Posted by daylate
The land we used to hunt in Dallas County had a lot of cane breaks, grasslands with cedars, and wild roses. It had a lot of planted pines too but for some reason, the prairie looking areas were not planted.


Because the landowners enjoy watching Florida Man show up with his jacked up, $85,000 truck thinking it will negotiate the Prairie soil. That usually ends up being a two tractor job.

The truth is that soil is not very conducive to growing pines.


Florida Man and the next two owners will find that mud somewhere on that truck for the next 25 years, too. That mud's like herpes. Never goes away.

Truth. It turns a 2 pound pair of boots into a 50 pound pair of boots.

Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3131113
05/27/20 08:46 AM
05/27/20 08:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 68,752
Luverne, AL
Skinny Offline
GUVNER
Skinny  Offline
GUVNER
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Posts: 68,752
Luverne, AL
Praire mud will stop the best vehicles. You only need to learn that lesson once.


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And the Second Amendment is there to ensure that we have the First Amendment." -- Elon Musk 10-6-2024
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Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3131137
05/27/20 09:38 AM
05/27/20 09:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,877
in the corner
S
Stob Offline
14 point
Stob  Offline
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S
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,877
in the corner
Would love to have seen the South when Buffalo and Elk still roamed. And who knows what else.

Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3131154
05/27/20 10:09 AM
05/27/20 10:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 118
Pike Co
L
lukecc Offline
3 point
lukecc  Offline
3 point
L
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 118
Pike Co
At the turn of the century the Troy Messenger in Pike County did a few articles where the interviewed the first settlers of the county that were left. My 4th great grandfater's brother was interviewed as he was a teenage boy when his father, a preacher moved them across Pea River from Barbour County into what is now Pike County around 1834. The story he told of the area and land scape at the time still fascinates me. He told of fishing the dark clear waters of the Pea River and the great Chestnut flats growing along its banks. First whitetail buck they killed, him and his brother killed in the deer's bed with the aid of a torch hunting at night. The buck bottomed out a set of 250lb cotton scales the next morning. He told of the deer migrating in the spring and the fall past there home in herds of 100 or more, and that the bear and panther tracks were as numerous in the yard of the home as the chicken tracks, which were difficult to keep from harm. Brings to mind a very interesting view.

Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: Goatkiller] #3131170
05/27/20 11:05 AM
05/27/20 11:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
mike35549 Offline
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Land of the free because of th...
Originally Posted by Goatkiller

I have read several books that have included accounts of some of the earliest expeditions into the interior. One account of an expedition who got lost in a corn field for 2 days and couldn't find their way out until they sent out scouts who then had a difficult time even re-finding the expedition and finally they found the Indians. Thousands of them. That's a serious big corn field. They would clear huge expanses of land moving around constantly because the ground would become infertile after a couple growing seasons. Which we are all familiar with the reasons for that but their answer was to just move.


Come on now you know no forest were ever cleared until the evil white man showed up.


If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3131181
05/27/20 11:26 AM
05/27/20 11:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
mike35549 Offline
12 point
mike35549  Offline
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Posts: 5,517
Land of the free because of th...
You can definitely see how beavers can drastically alter the landscape. Places that once had big pines on it that are now dead replaced by grasses and brambles.


If you're gonna be stupid you better be tough.
Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3131307
05/27/20 03:00 PM
05/27/20 03:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,332
Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher Offline
Booner
poorcountrypreacher  Offline
Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,332
Sylacauga, AL
Originally Posted by NWALJM
Originally Posted by Clem

William Bartram's diaries about his travels through the Southeast are pretty cool to read.

Have not heard of this, I’ll be ordering it soon. Thanks!



Just do a search on his name and you can download it as a free eBook. In fact, most of 18th and 19th century books about the history of the USA are free on the internet. I've probably read 25 books from that period since I retired.

Thanks to the OP for posting the article. It is a bit misleading to say that over half the state was grassland because he is including the great longleaf forest into that figure. It's just a matter of semantics, but I think most of us would call that a forest. But the Blackbelt was a very large area and everyone would call it a grassland.

I think that squirrel could have made his journey by treetop if he had picked his way carefully. smile

The article mentioned 15,000 years of forest management. I thought we only had evidence of humans in North America for 10,000 years. Has that number been revised?


All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
Re: Alabama Landscape 2 Centuries Ago [Re: NWALJM] #3131358
05/27/20 03:41 PM
05/27/20 03:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 68,752
Luverne, AL
Skinny Offline
GUVNER
Skinny  Offline
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Luverne, AL
It was said that a squirrel could tree-hop from the Atlantic Coast to the Mississippi River if it picked its route carefully.


"Never Trust Government" -- Smart people.
"You must have free speech in order to have democracy. That's why it is the First Amendment.
And the Second Amendment is there to ensure that we have the First Amendment." -- Elon Musk 10-6-2024
"You can be broke but you cant be poor." -- Ruthie-May Webster
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