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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: jwalker77]
#3164694
07/10/20 11:09 AM
07/10/20 11:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,946 USA
Remington270
Freak of Nature
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Freak of Nature
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,946
USA
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If you want a big, bumpy mess, definitely get out the moldboard plow. I've got one I'll probably never use again. You do know youve got to run the disk behind the plow right? Two passes with a good cutting disk and itll be smooth again. Yeah, I know. But it's a lot of work, and I don't see the benefit. You're still left with that "empty row" or whatever you call it on one side.
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: Remington270]
#3164732
07/10/20 12:24 PM
07/10/20 12:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238
Awbarn, AL
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If you want a big, bumpy mess, definitely get out the moldboard plow. I've got one I'll probably never use again. You do know youve got to run the disk behind the plow right? Two passes with a good cutting disk and itll be smooth again. Yeah, I know. But it's a lot of work, and I don't see the benefit. You're still left with that "empty row" or whatever you call it on one side. That's because there's not a benefit to doing itunless something has happened to cause a special need for such People do stuff all the time just because it sounds good
Last edited by CNC; 07/10/20 12:26 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: marshmud991]
#3165022
07/10/20 07:00 PM
07/10/20 07:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 23,438 blount county alabama
jwalker77
Pumpkin
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Pumpkin
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 23,438
blount county alabama
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Millions of farmers would disagree with you. Then again I know atleast three hippies who would agree with you and they have pretty nice little gardens. So there is that.
Last edited by jwalker77; 07/10/20 07:01 PM.
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: jwalker77]
#3165067
07/10/20 07:42 PM
07/10/20 07:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238
Awbarn, AL
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Millions of farmers would disagree with you. Then again I know atleast three hippies who would agree with you and they have pretty nice little gardens. So there is that. You're misunderstanding what I'm saying......There are numerous types of issues and conditions that may occur from one field to the next....or even in the same field over time. Let's hypothetically say that you are I are gonna be food plot consultants and we're gonna travel around all over the state helping hunters get their food plots turned around and on the right track long term. There is likely gonna be all kinds of situations we encounter and they may require using any equipment out there in order to fix what we find. We may mould bourd the piss out of some of them ........We'll decide that based on what we find when we assess each field and it's individual conditions and needs. What we won't do though is just guess at it and just do chit without a confirmed need for it....We sure won't just go do it to every field just for the hell of it. Once those problem s are fixed though then we will hopefully put the hunters on a long term plan that doesn't involve fixing these same problems again later down the road because of the exact same practices
Last edited by CNC; 07/10/20 07:44 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: marshmud991]
#3165278
07/10/20 11:30 PM
07/10/20 11:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238
Awbarn, AL
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Good to see you posting Dax.....These 7-8 acres that I'm using these principles on are probably the only few acres for miles that get treated in the same manner. There's folks that burn but that doesn't recycle the veg and build fertility in the same manner. I'm creating richer and richer black soil that's constantly putting out new early successional growth that's constantly reset. The fertility has gotten to the point now that the deer are hammering the summer broadleafs like it's candy. It reminds me of trying to grow beans and sunflowers, etc....I feel quite certain the deer can tell the difference in the fertility.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: marshmud991]
#3165288
07/10/20 11:51 PM
07/10/20 11:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489 N. Bama
257wbymag
Boo Boo Head
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Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
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Humping your sister was Probly fun for the first 5-7 years too. But then that turned into a disaster I’m sure.
Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!! My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty I'm the paterfamilias
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: marshmud991]
#3167297
07/13/20 07:11 PM
07/13/20 07:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,222 Central to South AL
Stickers
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,222
Central to South AL
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Turning ground has annually produced noxious weeds ( sickle pod/Coffee weed) as much as anything else. we see in our plots We intend to try more Throw and Mow to keep from disturbing them. I would rather bush hog than plow anyway. Fun to try something different a save some tractor wear dragging a plow across bad ground.
WDE
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: CNC]
#3167464
07/13/20 09:41 PM
07/13/20 09:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 840 Lower AL
Cynical
6 point
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6 point
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 840
Lower AL
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There's folks that burn but that doesn't recycle the veg and build fertility in the same manner. I'm creating richer and richer black soil that's constantly putting out new early successional growth that's constantly reset. The fertility has gotten to the point now that the deer are hammering the summer broadleafs like it's candy. It reminds me of trying to grow beans and sunflowers, etc....I feel quite certain the deer can tell the difference in the fertility. It’s almost like you think turning over the ground magically causes organic vegetation to disappear like fairy smoke. If not, where do you think that vegetation goes, since your do nothing approach nets you “richer and richer black soil”?
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: marshmud991]
#3167513
07/13/20 10:47 PM
07/13/20 10:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489 N. Bama
257wbymag
Boo Boo Head
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Boo Boo Head
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 38,489
N. Bama
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Laid out yes. We call a field laid by when all the chemical and fert is done on cotton or corn or what ever. That’s truly laid by
Quietly killing turkeys where youre not!!! My tank full of give a fraks been runnin on empty I'm the paterfamilias
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: Cynical]
#3167526
07/13/20 11:53 PM
07/13/20 11:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238
Awbarn, AL
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There's folks that burn but that doesn't recycle the veg and build fertility in the same manner. I'm creating richer and richer black soil that's constantly putting out new early successional growth that's constantly reset. The fertility has gotten to the point now that the deer are hammering the summer broadleafs like it's candy. It reminds me of trying to grow beans and sunflowers, etc....I feel quite certain the deer can tell the difference in the fertility. It’s almost like you think turning over the ground magically causes organic vegetation to disappear like fairy smoke. If not, where do you think that vegetation goes, since your do nothing approach nets you “richer and richer black soil”? Yeah it’s almost just like that…..except its called decomposition and its not fairy smoke that’s released into the air….its carbon dioxide…….You can slow down the process of decomposition and increase your % soil organic matter over time….also called humus…..or you can speed up the process and actually end up with a net loss each year…….eventually resulting in having none……It completely depends on your management practices
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: marshmud991]
#3167676
07/14/20 08:49 AM
07/14/20 08:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,263 USA
marshmud991
OP
14 point
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OP
14 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,263
USA
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What I’m wanting to do has nothing to do with the soil fertility. We do soil samples and the soil is in great shap. My idea is about busting the hard pan from years and years of discing. All I wanted to know was if anyone turned their plots over to help this not start another throw and mow pissing match. I’m a plow boy not a grass mower so throw and mow is out for now but I do appreciate the passion some have for it. I’m not there yet. I know what works for us. Thanks.
It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: marshmud991]
#3167745
07/14/20 09:52 AM
07/14/20 09:52 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,557 B'ham
Goatkiller
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,557
B'ham
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I don't need to throw and mow because I've got the proper equipment to do it right. I am not against throw and mow but that's for the 35hp tractor crowd. Nothing wrong with it. At all IMO. I am a believer in a soil having really good tilth. Personally I do not have time to run around in circles all day on an acre with 5 and 6ft equipment. If that's all I had I would be throwing and mowing too. But that's not what I have so....
Back to the story at hand - I don't think you need to subsoil for plot seed myself but I'm open to discuss that I certainly don't know everything. I do not plow with a moldboard. I sold mine and bought a chisel and I personally think that works better I have twisted shovels and it flips a little dirt on top and seems to do well starting the decomposing process. The plow causes a hard pan IMO. But a plow or either type won't break up that hard pan either way.... the chisel doesn't run any deeper. It looks like it would run down to waist deep. That thing sits up that high..... but it only runs down about 1/2 the shovel length so still pretty shallow. But works well you just need serious horsepower to pull one and you got that Marshmud. I like mine.
No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: marshmud991]
#3167826
07/14/20 11:48 AM
07/14/20 11:48 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,294 Sylacauga, AL
poorcountrypreacher
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,294
Sylacauga, AL
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I have several fields with Orangeberg soil that most definitely benefit from being turned. I have some others that are a sandy loam and it doesn't seem to help them as much. My garden land in Coosa county is another soil type that benefits from being turned, and I just do it every year. I've seen enough to know that there is no point in experimenting with it; just turn it every year. I don't think it makes any difference whether you use a diskplow or a moldboard; the effect is the same. It's a lot easier for me to get a neat job with the moldboard, but that may be due to my specific plows and the limited skill of the operator. Auburn ran some experiments years ago on cotton land that had hardpans in the soil. Turning the fields definitely improved yields, but they also found that yields improved almost as much by growing a crop of Bahia grass one year. The Bahia roots would punch holes in the hardpan, and then the cotton roots could use those holes. The effect lasted for several years before they would have to either turn it or grow another Bahia crop. If you have soil like this, you can increase yields for sure by doing something to the hardpan. Goatkiller would not be able to bear watching me break land with my 26 hp tractor and a 2 bottom moldboard, but if I just gear it down and go slow it will do the job. You already have the equipment you need; give it a try and see how it works. If I had any doubts, I would try breaking half of several plots and see how they do compared to the other half. Auburn ain't the only place that can do Ag experiments. Good luck with it!
All the labor of man is for his mouth, and yet the appetite is not filled.
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: poorcountrypreacher]
#3167852
07/14/20 12:31 PM
07/14/20 12:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238
Awbarn, AL
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Auburn ran some experiments years ago on cotton land that had hardpans in the soil. Turning the fields definitely improved yields, but they also found that yields improved almost as much by growing a crop of Bahia grass one year. The Bahia roots would punch holes in the hardpan, and then the cotton roots could use those holes. The effect lasted for several years before they would have to either turn it or grow another Bahia crop. If you have soil like this, you can increase yields for sure by doing something to the hardpan.
I have around 25-30 different plant species during the summer that are preforming functions just like this one you mentioned. I don’t know what all the individual functions may be but I trust that someone knew what they were doing when they created the plants and the process so I simply nurture it along. Folks may say that this and that about it but is that not the same faith that you would ask someone to have on Sunday morning? Isn't this general idea of "nurturing it along" even specifically mentioned when talking about the plants and our role?
Last edited by CNC; 07/14/20 12:45 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: CNC]
#3167866
07/14/20 12:51 PM
07/14/20 12:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,263 USA
marshmud991
OP
14 point
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OP
14 point
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,263
USA
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Auburn ran some experiments years ago on cotton land that had hardpans in the soil. Turning the fields definitely improved yields, but they also found that yields improved almost as much by growing a crop of Bahia grass one year. The Bahia roots would punch holes in the hardpan, and then the cotton roots could use those holes. The effect lasted for several years before they would have to either turn it or grow another Bahia crop. If you have soil like this, you can increase yields for sure by doing something to the hardpan.
I have around 25-30 different plant species during the summer that are preforming functions just like this one you mentioned. I don’t know what all the individual functions may be but I trust that someone knew what they were doing when they created the plants and the process so I simply nurture it along. Folks may say that this and that about it but is that not the same faith that you would ask someone to have on Sunday morning? Isn't this general idea of "nurturing it along" even specifically mentioned when talking about the plants and our role? I appreciate the passion you have for growing weeds. I don’t like weeds and spent most of my life killing weeds. If I didn’t plant it I don’t want it growing. We plant cover crops and use herbicide to kill unwanted weeds. Guess I’m crazy but there will never be a time that I will spend my hard earned money to grow weeds. I’m gonna bring my set of shanks and rip it as deep as I possibly can. If I dig up weed seeds, I will take care of them as needed.
It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chews your a$$ all day long.
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: marshmud991]
#3167924
07/14/20 02:00 PM
07/14/20 02:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238 Awbarn, AL
CNC
Dances With Weeds
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Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 23,238
Awbarn, AL
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Well, what you call a “weed”…..the deer and the soil both call “food”………and I’m managing the plots for deer….not humans……Folks aren’t mounting and putting trophy ears of corn and bean pods on their wall either…..so until they do, I’m not gonna define success by farming standards and what everyone thinks “looks pretty”. Another shooter on the ground is what I think looks pretty.
Last edited by CNC; 07/14/20 02:03 PM.
We dont rent pigs
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Re: Tuning over plots?
[Re: marshmud991]
#3167988
07/14/20 03:43 PM
07/14/20 03:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,557 B'ham
Goatkiller
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,557
B'ham
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Standing about 70-80 bushel acre beans in the summer and about 180 bushel corn left standing for the winter seems to be working pretty well for me as far as horns go. I just really can't afford to buy it by the semi-truck load so I prefer to grow it myself.
No government employees were harmed in the making of this mess.
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