And of course, the pine/hw stands from the 70s were not the native forests anyway. Much of AL was longleaf country, then it was cleared to grow cotton, and then was abandoned and allowed to grow up in whatever would grow, which was usually the pine/hw mix.

I think it would be beneficial to turkeys to go back to longleaf, but I don't expect that to happen on a large scale. They have proven that they can thrive in loblolly, though the way the loblolly is managed is surely important. I always thought that turkeys and quail both did much better when the site prep was done with dozers, but we ain't going back to those days either.

I'd take pine plantations in varying stages over hardwood swamps all day everyday.

Have y'all watched that video from The Hunting Public from about two/three weeks ago where they interviewed the biologist team from Georgia who's doing that study? Pretty neat stuff....they don't give any answers for why they think it's declining, but some of the tools they're working with are kinda neat. THP put a new video out in the past couple days where they're trying to raise $35,000 for the same study to be done in Alabama. They have these boxes high in trees that record and filter gobbling activity ("song boxes" I think they're calling them).
They do talk about the recruitment rate being much lower than in the past, but again don't offer any opinions.

I just wonder how expensive it would be to hatch, raise, and release turkeys into the wild. Seems like it would be a fairly cheap and easy project to create a brood / hatchery and release 1,000's of turkeys into the public forests each year. THAT is something you CAN control (putting more numbers into the woods). I don't know how you could ever control predation (or basically anything that decreases numbers). What if predation was a bacteria, or just something totally unexpected like that?

I think a lot of this variation in population from year to year is basically the turkeys moving from one tract to another because of habitat change. For the most part south Alabama is a patchwork of different habitat based on a 30 year pine rotation. For instance one year I killed my limit on a small tract we had that adjoined about 500 acres which was prime habitat but got clearcut and the turkeys moved onto us. These timber rotations keep them on islands of habitat which can isolate them from adjoining breeding populations.

1. The hunting public are clowns.
2. Raising tame birds and releasing them into the wild has been proven to fail
3. Chamberlain.....I’m gonna hold my thoughts.
4. If late season structure is the golden ticket then why is Arkansas struggling after years of late season. If arkansas is the gold standard for turkey management then we are screwed.
5. Falling recruitment is directly related to fur prices. You can look at the graphs. Predation is a major problem
6. Changes in habitat is occurring and specifically through evolving commercial timber practices. Some of the changes are good. Some are bad.
7. Pine stands/commercial timber managed correctly are excellent for turkeys.
8. The DNR can only control season structure and bag limits. Unfortunately season structure and bag limits have minimal impact on turkey populations in the big picture.
9. If your turkeys are declining. Then don’t shoot the only damn gobbler on your place. Let him breed. Does the DNR have to be the one that tells you this?
I’ll keep it at this for now.

Good post gobl4me , but it’s Alabama. If there was 1 gobbler left in the state there would be 25000 Alabamians fighting over who got to kill it. We had 7 in one of our blocks a couple years ago and 3 guys fought tooth and nail to see who could get their limit of 5. It’s in the Alabamians nature to want to kill as many as humanly possible. That won’t change, it’s bred into too many people.

Agreed.
As mentioned in another thread, I think the youtubers and other people that post on social media can have a positive impact with knowledge to inexperienced hunters. But with that also comes the negative impact. Seems more people than ever are out trying to kill a public land bird. It was bad before all this social media hype. 10 times worst it seems now. I hope it doesn't keep getting out of hand. Worst hunting pressure I have seen by far this past season. And I understand that is relative to what public ground was hunted, but it has just gotten ridiculous.

I live in Chicago but hunt Turkeys in the Thunb of Michigan, in Huron County. My Turkey season this spring lasted 1.5 HOURS. My buddy who lives up there scouts over a dozen properties he has permission to hunt and sets up pop up blinds. He put me in a spot where he knew some turkeys roosted nearby and put out a lone hen decoy. In less than an hour, two hens came by to check out this strange hen in their territory. Shortly thereafter a big ole Gobbler came to investigate. I saw him coming through a picked cornfield from about 120 yards away. He took his time and when he got to about 30 yards my Benneli Nova barked. In the last 6 years I’ve gone 6/6 in the Thumb, and my longest hunt lasted two days. I’m a mediocre Turkey hunter at best, but I hunt a primo area with a guy who is a phenomenal turkey hunter.

I agree with most as well, but have to respectfully disagree with number 8. I think they have both the power to influence habitat and predation control for good and bad. The path they are taking is going to remove incentive for private landowners to do habitat improvements and hunters on private lands (read pretty much all of the land mass in the grand scheme) to rid the landscape of predators both. If they would dangle carrots (IE additional tags instead of less) in exchange for doing either or both, making the land mass more productive for the sake of all hunters in the vicinity, then you would see them affecting stuff outside of season structure and bag limits for good. Positive reinforcement versus negative. Psychology aint that damn hard but it is way too hard for book nerd morons like Mike Chamberlain and Chuck Sykes though. Not to mention, their bright idea of reduced bag limits aint even gonna save any turkeys to speak of to begin with given how few folks actually kill 5 turkeys anyway.

I’ll rephrase # 8. DNR can only EASILY control season structure and bag limits

The other issues such as habitat and predator control are expensive and much more complicated. That said bounty programs exist in the dakotas and could easily be implemented in the South East. Habitat stamp requirement that are designed $ for bounties could potentially curb predation. Though I always shy away from giving government money to solve a problem.

Waiting on the right weather, depending on commercial timber companies to put wildlife first over timber profit/same with the forestry service, private landowners spending money yearly on native grasses/burning/nesting habitat/etc, every turkey hunter aggressively trapping......is what needs to happen. Laying off seed / breeding gobblers in low density regions. But that’s not what’s happening. And none of these are easily controlled.

I grew up right next to a big block of company land and never saw a turkey in our pasture until maybe 15 years ago. Now I’m seeing turkeys in places around the county I have never seen them before. This is in walker county. I only started turkey hunting 7 years ago and have only hunted public land so I don’t know if there is a decline or not. I do know it took me 3 years of learning where turkeys were to kill one and haven’t really had a problem finding them since then. My wife and I took 3 birds from 3 different public lands miles a part this season and should’ve killed 2 more. It makes me wonder if the people griping about turkey declines only hunt 3 days a season and are basing the turkey population on gobbles heard from the truck. If there is a decline ,I would think it could be from all the deer hunters feeding corn and in return making a healthy population of nest predators. All one has to do is look at Lawrence and Winston counties to see that a later season does not drastically effect turkey numbers. I think the state should

1. 2 bird limit per county on public land
2. Outlaw supplemental feeding of deer
3. No shooting jakes

I also know how people tend to embellish things over the years. In 20 years 5 gobblers heard seems to easily turn into 15 for some people.

If you are going to have turkeys, you got to have turkey habitat. Here in South Ala. at least where I am we don't have that habitat anymore. It all went to the saw mill. Over a period of years I watched a place that was over run with turkeys ,just go away .

There aren’t many turkeys in Lawrence co at all. Even less in Morgan co

Your exactly right. If ole chamberlain’s theory was correct, the Lawrence county portion of Bankhead should be over ran with turkeys. I hunt all over the state and there’s no where near the turkeys over there vs other areas with earlier hunting starts.

Our turkey population has declined substantially in the last few years. We have a 300 acre property and one that's 500 aces. Both places were ate up with turkeys for years. Both places were pasture land with cows. Both places had a creek bottom running thru them with mature timber, both joined multiple properties with mature timber. The 300 acre place is now in WRP, is super thick, lots of deer not many turkeys, but has nesting areas.
The other place is CRP, been thinned and still had decent turkey population. The neighboring properties were clear cut in the last few years, one was replanted the other wasn't and it's now a jungle. Every coon in the hood now frequents our place and hangs out at our feeders. Trying to work on them but it will take time.
I feel like the primary factor in our decline has been habitat change. We can do what we can on ours but can't do much about the surrounding properties.
I'm sure were not the only ones that are in this situation.

Put a dozen dog proofs with cat food / marshmallows around your feeder one night. Prob have all your coons in one go at it. When more coons show up set all the traps again. Can wipe them out far and wide. What I do and I’ve seen success. Have a property that had 16 gobblers in one trail came picture I was trapping. Wish I still had that place.

Unchecked coons and coyotes.... clear cutting.. main 2 issues IMO. are we spraying something affecting the eggs like ddt affected eagles’ egg shells? I don’t know but typically wonder as most biologists say there’s been a big turkey decline all over the SE US?