Don't worry about the price but what does this mean?:
$5/ton pulpwood
$25/ton saw timber

Is that based on the weight of a recently cut pine tree, or after the tree is dried and cut into boards?

I belive its the price of it on the truck when it gets to the mill.

It's based on recently cut logs and pulpwood delivered to a mill most likeley. That's the stumpage rate a landowner could expect to get from his timber. Like on the pulpwood $5/ton.....If a log truck had somewhere in the neighborhood of 28 tons on it (which is about average) the landowner could expect to get about $140 for his share of what the load brought.
Doesn't sound like much but it costs so much to get it out anymore there's not alot left to go around after the deisel fuel eats most of it up. There can be multiple loads of pulpwood per acre though so it adds up.

Lumber after is is sawed is always calculated by the board foot.

It's probably stumpage paid to the land owner like Brent M said.
Those prices would be low (for pine or HW pulp) in my area. Make sure you get copies of all the scale tickets and keep them honest.

Back in 87 I cut timber for 75 cents a ton.I averaged $1200-$1400 a week.I worked like a dog and didn't even have the time or energy to spend it.That doesn't sound like too much now but for a kid just out of high school in 87,it was a lot.

Point is though that a good crew can move some tonnage.

Anybody have a clue where to get reliable timber prices? Or does such a place exist?

Yeah, what u want to know? We sell timber every day...

I just wanted to know if there is any website, newspaper, radio program, newsletter, email list, or other such source that lists timber prices. The best I can ever seem to get is "Uncle Pappy's third cousin says timber prices are good right now". I know it's regional, but I havent ever seen a good place to track timber prices.

There are just too many variables for pulpwood or especially sawlogs to have a set rate. Yours may be worth a couple dollars more a ton than the next guys, because it's easier to get or you don't have to drag it as far or its closer to the mill or because it can be worked in the wintertime..........All this comes into play before you even actually get into the value based on the quality of the stand itself.

I can tell you though, prices are not very good right now, and I'm afraid it will be worse once summer sets in for real.

Timber Mart South has average timber stumpage prices, roughly based on location. Problem is it is usually 3 or so months behind. There are some other problems with it, but that is the main one available. You are usually better off to get prices from 3 or so reputable timber buyers in your area.

Can't you find out an average price from the log yard? Way back when we hauled logs,the log yard would often keep up with the total and cut the check to the landowner.

That info is a more closely guarded secret that the next move of the military against the Taliban. Unless you know somebody, you can't find out anything.

As has already been noted, the stumpage value depends on a lot of factors, such as the location and quality of the timber. I understand that, and it makes sense. But it sure is frustrating as a landowner that you never really have any idea if you are being treated fairly or not when selling timber by the ton. Finding anyone who will tell you what the mill is paying is next to impossible.

The timber business is tough for everyone right now. I had some timber cut back in Jan, and the dealer who bought it told me a few days after mine was finished that his pulpwood allocation had been cut back to nearly nothing, and this was in the dead of winter. A few days later, I talked to a forester for a big outfit that owns timber rights to a lot of land, and he told me it was no problem for them. They had a contract with the mill that required them to take their wood any time. So the mill buys their timber, and the little guys are left out.

I think we are headed for the day when a small landowner will no longer be able to sell timber in AL. The big companies will control the mill capacity, and there won't be any available for others. And there won't be any crews left to cut it anyway. The forester for the big co said they had a crew that used 2 shifts and moved 60-80 loads a day. Weather didn't matter to them; they ran every day.

I wouldn't advise a young person to major in forestry right now.

Private landowners need someone who is looking out for their best interest. That is why every private landowner needs a consulting forester. A good consultant forester makes the landowner more money every time. If the quota issue you spoke of was in my area and I was your consultant forester there is a good chance I could have resolved it. I handle a lot of volume to the mills and can get some leeway when a landowner cannot.

Over 70% of the land in Alabama is owned by Non Industrial Private Landowners. Small landowners will always sell timber in Alabama. As I said before it may become more important that the landowner team up with a forester that has a strong hold in the market to make the sell of his timber easier and more profitable.

No doubt that is all good advice. The quota wasn't an issue for me in this case; mine had already been cut. The dealer had a bunch of crews and all of them were essentially idled while the quota was in place. But I talked to him recently and he said things were a little better for them right now.

It took 2 crews to cut my wood. The first one said it was too wet and left. He went bankrupt a few weeks later. I really hated to hear that because he was the best logger I've ever had on my land and did everything right. Maybe that's the reason he couldn't make it. The second crew did everything wrong, but at least they got it cut for me. At only 80 loads, I was thankful to get it done.

My next planned cut is 3 years away and will be a clear cut. I plan to use a consulting forester and get him to bid it out for me and sell it on a lump sum basis. Back in the 90s, I was able to do that myself, but I think that era has passed.

I sure hope your view of the future of forestry is right, and I am completely wrong. If the small guy is to survive, I think it will be necessary to band together in cooperatives, or to sign up with a forestry outfit that controls a lot of land, or do something to create a larger scale. I think the day of being able to hire somebody to come into a place and cut 20 loads is about over.

It looks like to me that the limiting factor in the timber industry in AL right now is mill capacity. We just don't have enough mills running to handle the amount of timber that is available. I fear the timber business will end up like the catfish business. My dad started in the catfish business in 1972, with a 14 acre lake. The crew from the processing plant in Greensboro would come every fall and harvest his fish; all he had to do was grow them and lower the pond before they came. This worked great for about 20 years, and then the processing co started putting him off, always had others in front of him. Eventually, the large producers signed contracts with the processors and they wouldn't take his fish at all.

From my admittedly limited perspective, I see the same thing happening in the timber business. I would be delighted for anyone to convince me that I am wrong.

I tend to agree with Rebelman's assessment. However, I don't think prices will improve significantly, except for small spikes here and there, in the long term. There's just too many rows of loblolly pine in this state. Pulpwood and CNS will always be available in nearly unlimited quantities. If housing ever picks back up then I think you could see sawtimber and veneer logs pick back up some. I don't deal with timber prices every day but my general outlook on the timber market for the foreseeable future is very bearish. I think that's why it's imperative that private landowners hire a consulting forester to help them with their timber sales. Most landowners only do 1 or 2 sales in their whole lifetime. There's just no way to understand the process adequately when you rarely, if ever, deal with it. Timber buyers know this, that's why the prices they give directly to landowners are generally lower.

I completely agree with poorcountrypreacher's statement about not advising anyone to major in forestry right now, unless they just really want to starve to death and have always wanted to do it their whole life.

Redman knows his stuff and maybe this will help you a little with the question.
when considering a cord(128)cubic feet of green wood, Pine runs roughly 4000 to 4300 pounds, Oak about 5500 to 5900. Generally you can deduct about 5% for small wood and add about 5% for large saw log type logs. Also be aware that crookedness and such changes these numbers.
Therfore you could say that $25.00 per ton would equate to about $50.00 per cord of pine????????

You can forget about cords/MBF in most places. Everything is by the ton. Almost everybody I knew used about 5400 pounds per cord of pine timber. If you haul wood that is out of specs, crooked-small, they will send it back to the woods with you. Too much and they will send the entire load back.
$25 a ton (x 2.7) would be $67.50 per cord.

Rebelman this isn't directed at you in any way shape or form so don't take it personally but I've seen some consultant foresters that couldn't figure out how to run their finger up their tail if they used both hands and couldn't figure out how to mark a tract of timber to save their life. Just like in any other business, some of them are shady too.

If I have a real good stand of timber that's worth a couple hundred thousand dollars, why on earth would I want to pay some nut 10 or 15 per cent of that to call four or five sawmills to come bid on it when I could spend half a day looking on the web and driving around and do the exact same thing he does?

I can see paying a consultant out of your pocket to come in and walk your timber and tell you what he thinks you should do with it, but letting them handle the actual sale and giving them a big percentage of the money is just throwing it away.

Brent, if you got $200K worth of timber, you might be able to get enough interest to handle it yourself. If you got $40K, it sure helps to have somebody on your side that has relationships with people and can talk them in to bidding. The ONLY reason I was able to get my thinning done was due to a friendship with a forester that works for the dealer. It never would have happened if he hadn't wanted to help me out. If I had tried to bid that job out myself, I very seriously doubt that I would have gotten a single bid.

Another reason to use a forester is that I will surely count on him to be responsible for getting it replanted. Trying to get a small parcel replanted by yourself is even harder than getting it cut. But I live in an area where there is nothing but pine trees for miles and miles, so maybe its not as bad in other places.

I really don't understand Preacher unless the terrain was bad or something and it could only be cut in dry weather. I'm assuming that a $40K thinning job would be at least 80 acres or so depending on what was there. I would think that would be between a week and two weeks winter work for one mechanized crew. I haven't ever seen a crew that would turn down a week's worth of winter work.
But like you said it's pine trees for miles and miles down there, and that's as different from hardwood as daylight from dark. I guess things just work different.