Dang straight on that. I'll be danged if I'll ever spread lime by hand. Lime truck, buggy, or tractor mounted hopper, yes, but if it's got to go down my hand, fields will just have to lay fallow or suffer.

This field is majority clay. The edges are pretty tough to get good penetration with a disk, especially the north facing side. The southern half of the field is doing pretty well with clover, but its just plot spike from TS, not the whitetail kind. That's the reason I think subsoiling it would help. And the field is sort of like an upside down bowl. So higher in the middle then the edges.

One thing else I noticed last year with a different plot that was hard clay that I ended up subsoiling. Even though all our soil tests called for heavy lime, none really indicated a need to add anything but nitrogen to them for cereal grains and brassicas. Right? So this field when I planted it came right up, but then everything turned yellowish and stopped growing. We were getting plenty of rain, so I followed the soil test and added more nitrogen, thinking that would correct it. It didn't. So I added more. Still nothing. Then I hit it with triple 17 and it took off. Nice rich green.

So I don't know if maybe even though all these nutrients are there in the soil, but the plants aren't able to extract them. So what I am trying to do is get a really good stand of cereal grains and brassicas in the fall, and then come in when turkey season is over, and broadcast beans and peas and then mow it with a flail mower which turns everything into mulch. That mulch provides the nutrients for the beans and peas, and they provide for the fall crop. THen I am not disking twice a year, but building the topsoil. I realize that doesn't happen over night. But I might be basically trying to accomplish this with 3 inches of dirt and basically concrete under it. Hence asking about getting after it with a subsoiler.

Sounds like youre doing something similar to what im doing. Ive got a 3acre+ field i have sapped, discing every year, not fertilizing properly. I started it on throw and mow last fall. Went back with ic peas and sun hemp this summer. Its up about 6inches high. I just sprayed the grass today. Im trying to build the soil and not break it up for a while.

Sounds like you are dealing with very poor soil . I raise cattle but have several farmers in the family . Some soil types just aren’t good for growing ag crops no matter what you do . Getting the pH up will definitely help but clay type soil needs organic matter in it to change its consistency . Not sure turning it deep will do anything but bring more clay to the surface .

I have soil that likes to puzzle me. It's like I will behave and produce a nice stand for him so he thinks he's made me happy and then the following time, I will not grow squat so he gets frustrated and lets my pretty ferns come back............ It grows good rocks!!


Soil test says its type 2 soil. Lights clays and loam. 2.5 ton per acre of lime. I know I put a good 3 tons on it, so...thinking it should be coming along well. Once I get the soil tested again, then I will know for sure. Only need 40 pounds per acre of the middle ingredient in fertilizer for peas.

You need to stop doing soil tests and throwing chemicals on the field. I have fields I grow row crops in I don't put this much effort into. That's my suggestion. You need to work on building what is called "Tilth". Manure, Sawdust, Ashes from Fireplace were all available and used before chemical fertilizer was invented so think outside the box and it will save you a lot of money.

I am NOT suggesting letting a bunch of weeds grow and bush hogging them, etc. a.k.a. Throw and Mow. There are plenty of other ways to improve the soil and growing a field full of dog fennel isn't one of them IMO. I layer of weed thatch on top of a hard clay base is not what I think you are looking for here. That will possibly result in plants down the road NOT being drought tolerant and ultimately that's going to get in your wallet not to mention further waste your time.

Rip the field. Not with a chisel plow you need a sub soiler a chisel doesn't run that deep and see if you can get someone to spread manure on it then turn that under. It will grow if you do that.

Spray it this fall, plant cereal rye/clover/radish either disk or throw and mow. Next spring summer plant sunflower or millet or just let it grow. Next year same thing. I have several areas that looked like the surface of the moon that are finally starting to be very productive food plots.

If you are growing row crops or raising cattle, you have different needs. For Alabama pine goats, you just need something for own they want to eat. Heck, it would be a valid argument to bushhog it and put a feeder.

A chisel plow hooked up to a hunert twenty horse tractor with get it done.

For conversation sake........How would you go about maintaining that soil tilth moving forward after this treatment??

I started tinkering around in the huntstand app, and found out it has an acreage calculator, so, if its anywhere close, it has more than enough lime on it, but I am going to test it to be sure. I think I am going to subsoil the north side, which doesn't have any clover, and see what it looks like and then decided based uopn the soil test. Heck I might just spray the whole field, subsoil it, disk it, wait a couple weeks, and spray it, and keep that up until late august, then plant something Whitetail institute related. The deer seem to like their clover. It's to large a field on the property to have it under perform like it is right now.

Hunstand says its a half acre field. I think its a little bigger than that.

I skimmed most of this but it seems you mentioned that fall crops were doing slightly better and it is a high clay content. Obviously, ph in clay soils is always an issue. They are clay soils because they are old, weathered, and lacking nutrients. Clay pans or fragipans can definitely be an issue for root depth and water availability or access water.

So, these low pH clays can just lock up the fertilizer you are dumping in, but this sounds like it may be a water availability issue compounding it. Clay soils require more pressure for plants to uptake the water available. As someone earlier stated, you should focus on building some organic matter in the soil to combat the pH and water holding/freeing issues. The more you turn the soil the more you breakdown any organic matter.

Maybe try fall/winter organic matter adding crops (radishes is one) and then long rooted drought tollerant plants in summer while not turning it over. Remember, that clay soil was weathered and has been losing nutrients for thousands of years and then probably mismanaged by humans for 200+ years. It may take several years to start seeing some progress.

cliff notes....if you want to turn it over one more time ok, but then start building some organic matter in the soil. Stop compacting it.

Pertinent info here! Take a shovel and check several places before you ever use a turning plow. I ruined a field one time that was apparently sitting on top of a good gravel vein. That field never did come back decent with all the rocks and gravel I turned up.

Building the organic material is what I am focusing on. I didn't disk this field this spring, I broadcast into standing cereal grains and then ran over it with my flail mower. But I also think the field has been there for a very long time, and that means its had seasons of disking and planting. Hence my concern about hardpan.

I am going to subsoil half of it and see what it looks like. The other half has a pretty good stand of clover in it. I will be able to tell pretty quick if its compacted.

My ultimate goal Is not to have to disk at all. Simply broadcast cereal grains and bassica's into standing peas/beans in September, then come back the following spring and broadcast beans/peas and run over it with a flail mower which will mulch up everything in the field and cover the seed, and the roller will act like a cultipacker.

Pasture renovator might be the tool you need. You could do that without disrupting your plan. I guess it would make it a little bumpy but you could get some moisture in the ground without turning the whole field to dirt.

I walked the field saturday. I intended on subsoiling the north end of it, but decided I would leave it for now. The deer are eating the clover, and I do have a better stand of buckwheat and sunn help coming up, with some peas mixed in. I wouldn't say I was thrilled with it, but..... its probably a little late to start over with a pea/bean planting. Plus I want to try to preserve the clover.

Met a new member out there who said they had been hunting bottom land and my fields looked as good as theirs and were really good considering the soil. I think its just going to take a couple years to really get a good layer of decaying organic matter on the top of it.

Man it was hot too!

Plant cover crops and disk them in. I have not seen where disking twice a year hurts tilth as long as you have a decent amount of residue you are incorporating back into the dirt when you disk.

Get some manure in bags, spread it in a place as a test and disk it into that clay... it will grow. I will give you $100 bill if it don't grow like crazy.

You know what I have noticed? The east and north sides of the green fields out there seem to struggle the most. I wonder if that is all the direct sunlight they get and it bakes alot of the moisture out of the soil?

I just got a bunch of rain overnight and thru the morning and it looks like more is coming, so I will check it again this weekend and see what it looks like.

I am sort of torn. Part of me wants to just subsoil it and disk it and then start over, but I have a really good stand of clover on one side of it I hate to mess that up. I have begun to really like clover, because once you get it established, its there. I don't have to wait for it to grow like beans and peas or the fall crops.

I need someone to bring me a load of manure out there. I have 3 fields I could use it on.

South and west facing aspects have less moisture, poorer soils, and less organic matter (in the northern hemisphere).

Plant daikon or groundhog radish this fall. It’ll help with the hard pan.