While we may not agree I can see where you're coming from. The main problem I think a lot of us are concerned with is (Will these loss of opportunities return?) I know I have my doubts, major doubts. One reason I doubt is because with the increase of hunters the flock will need to be bigger just to maintain where its at now. Therefore if we do get the the ball rolling the right way, we very well may just end up at the position of balance, (a flock that could withstand the new pressure but cant expand enough to take on additional pressure of relaxing the regs) this would make agencies keep the new regs in place. For instance, I've long hunted Mississippi as a NR, its the closest place for me to have decent turkey hunting. I've always happily paid for the license etc and even champion for paying more. Hunters don't pay enough and bark at little increases while spending fortunes on other flashy S****. No matter how many turkeys the state grows from this point on I am very reluctant to think they would ever remove the draw requirements being implicated, Due to resident voices and there still being more pressure then there was before.
There should be Public land permits not just WMA permits, and for the acreage we can hunt it should be a min $100. This money could go a LONG way to helping the resource. Trapping would help if we could do it during turkey season, but many are like me and don't have the time to travel hours to trap, Ik that sounds ironic but its just the truth. The closets half decent turkey hunting to me is 3 hours away. I have to pull a lot of stuff to get off work to hunt some for those two months, I and many cant do it all year. However we could fund these agencies wayyyy better. Sell the permits and earmark the money for certain things. Hell the wardens and biologist are under paid, we could earmark money for trapping. Maybe they would do a lot of trapping themselves too if they could get $5 per rodent turned in, and they in the field already daily??? Bonus money for those who want or need to make more?
More hunters aren't always bad but I feel social media brought a diff type, maybe I'm wrong idk. I think the best way to get more hunters that align with the old school mentality is by friends taking out more friends. The old school way for the old school style. However I've been burned like that many times too by being run out of my own spots by so called friends. Hell I enjoy the videos myself, guilty as charged, but I think the location naming could go differently and help. Just like the old videos didn't flood the public land like now. That's due to peoples doubt, (I cant do like those guys, they have fancy private land) therefore I'm not going . The ones who don't have such doubt and go out trying on their own are a different breed that I believe more so align with the old way. The brand new only social media flames are the new culture by large.
Originally Posted by Cove
Originally Posted by sasquatch1
Dave, to your first paragraph. I agree the (old school way was disappearing) and needed to change.
However the old way wasn’t disappearing because people didn’t know how to hunt that way, like you said it’s a full on culture change. We are in the instant gratification generation. These new guys aren’t watching your videos on how to hunt, they are looking for where to hunt! While this may be the case in some scenerios, I can say with certainty it is not true in all scenerios. I have private messages explaining how much more gratifying the experience has been since they've played by the old principles. Not to mention slowing the entire celebration down to prolong the experience. And during the 4 years of the Pinhoti project, I have hunted 30 states if my quick addition was correct, so the problem lies in sending people to 30 different states across the country? I totally agree the instant gratification generation is much to blame but I'm not finding any solutions in your comment on how to curb that culture? My approach was to expose them to "the experience" rather than just the kill. But I'm open to other suggestions. We can't ignore the newest generations if we expect to keep this hunting thing around.
So, while trying to show people the right way, I feel mostly the videos just showed people it was possible. It brought out thousands of people to the sport that don’t want to hunt the old school way! All the new people attracted are mostly hunters that go against what you was trying to accomplish! Again, so the answer is? Ignore all the new hunters, shun them and worry about ourselves? Trust me, I'd love to be the lone man on the ridge day in and day out hunting "my" turkeys. But I know that is not good for the resource because I alone can not fund and care for them. Eventually, I may still be the lone man on the ridge but "my" turkeys will be long gone without hope in restoring them. For now, my only answer is to expose the new hunters to the experience, hope it sticks and potentially try to sway some of the other existing media they're attracted to to do the same. Please realize I'm not the only content for new hunters to watch. The battle against questionable methodology is constant.
Your videos showed the same people of the (new culture) confidence in trying public land. I totally agree. My videos have shown people new to hunting and old to hunting the possibilities of travel. I along with the incredible advancement in mapping software that I continuously see ignored. It's like no one wants to mention it because EVERYONE uses it, myself included. Once upon a time I would pour weeks or more into printing google maps and tracing property boundaries. Transferring gps coordinates to a Garmin with a 3" dimly lit screen then marking those same points to a wax papered national forest map took of most of my nights. The amount of effort necessary to travel to foreign soil was staggering. Now, you can literally drive down the road, watch your blue pointer and wait for the shaded region to appear. Which I find much more tasteful when compared to that "shared waypoint" chasing epidemic. And this isn't an accusation because I've been just as guilty as anyone. Just an observation that shouldn't go ignored.
There’s many like me who are definitely guilty in the sense of watching your hunts, however the ones like me were already hunting and being involved. You just gained views from my or should I say our kind as we were already on the same hunt style opinions. The NEW people youve drawn in are on the new culture side. We need the strength that comes with the numbers. I believe for us as "old hunters" should instead of hating the new hunters because frankly they're coming whether you like it or not (again, its a good thing) we should attempt to mold them into responsible sportsman. Casting them aside isn't the way. They will build resentment for our values and essentially deny them for no reason other than that, they're ours. Expose them to passing a gate that's already occupied, expose them to backing out on a gobbling turkey because someone else is already working him and expose them to the importance of turkey hunters engaging with wildlife professionals and agencies to ensure we are putting as many turkeys on the landscape as we are taking off. Who else is going to do it?
This is why the restrictions are coming in the form of opportunity not weapon restrictions, Jake restrictions or decoy restrictions. (Just a few examples) Restrictions were coming, as I stated this turkey production trend started over a decade ago. We had turkey problems before YouTube, Bookface and the Gram. We were not/ are not making enough turkeys. I'm thankful now we have the popularity for the sport to fund new research, ask tough questions to agencies and motivate NGOs to address issues that have been long building without notice. We have a supply issue. When the supply issue is resolved the demand aspect will take care of itself. I suggest we start looking at solutions to the supply issue rather than passing blame as to who is responsible for the demand surge. Both are necessary for what we love.
I appreciate your comment. I have attempted to address each point with my perspective. I challenge my way of thinking daily- am I doing the right thing? what could I change to do better? should I reconsider this? should I abandon that? My approach is always up for tailoring. Again, that's why I engage in forums such as this one when many would not due to their overall toxicity.
