I think people are overlooking the fact that there’s not a dang thing you can do to change or alter genetics in free ranging deer across a landscape. AND, within a population there’s a tremendous variation in genetic potential among individuals. So deer fed the exact same diet can express different antler AND body characteristics just because they’re genetically distinct individuals. My advice for anyone managing free range deer is to focus on age structure first. For some folks that may the only variable they can control. You can amend the soil all you want. You’re not going to magically turn it into Iowa fertility. Second, maximize food quality and quantity. Active herbaceous management is critical to increasing body size and antler growth. And I don’t mean food plots. They are a part of a deers nutritional requirements but the overwhelming majority of their diet comes from native vegetation that does indeed contain as much as 25-30% crude protein and more.

The problem with Alabama is the liberal harvest. There is no other answer. At the end of the day Billy Bob done kilt your 2 and 3 year bucks and 1/2 your does. I hunt and have hunted all across the country. Nowhere with the exception of a few of the Southern States worst in AL has the age structure we have. It's hard for a decent looking racked deer to just get to 3.5 around here. Let's be honest.

If you want to understand the real issue look no further. It's a conscious decision we have made the DCNR went for quantity over quality because we live in the alleged land of plenty (depending on your neighbors of course).

Look in the mirror tonight while you are brushing your teeth and tell yourself, Self.... you are a doe and spike killin son of a gun and let's go Brandon. The Gubberment can't tell you what to do you got rights and freedom dammit@! C'Mon Man! You'll shoot what you want. Oh and screw a stop sign and a speed limit too!

War Eagle and Row Tiduh

Nevermind, this says it all.

yep if you wanna shoot a great buck then stop shootin all the gooduns....a 3 or 4 yr old 125 inch just might be a 150 or better 6 yr old , ya never know ..

Are there any tales of folks releasing anything other than what the state restocked back in the day in the 50’s-70’s???

CNC small scale releases don’t do anything to improve genetics. Those deer are quickly assimilated into the local deer population. The reason restocking from Michigan had such an impact in Bankhead is because of of the scale of release and there were literally zero native deer for those deer to interact and breed with. The TN valley was void of deer. The mining country south of Double Springs was void of deer. So they actually maintained their genetic integrity over generations. Other releases were not as successful.

And yes there’s tons of documented releases from individuals.

That's why I'm asking about other releases happening back when there were big voids of space with no deer......That would mean there is the possibility of other localized deer populations that could have built up enough of a base stock around the release area back when there were no other deer to still be showing some differences........ I agree that it would be hard to have an impact today but not so much back then

There’s been large scale DNA studies by MSU testing local deer today in locations of known deer restocking and about the only place there was detectable DNA similar to stocking sources was on Bankhead and even they contained a considerable amount of native AL deer DNA too. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Bankhead is the only place in Alabama where I can say with any confidence that there is a genetic superiority to the rest of the state. Combine that with the age they can reach in the rough terrain and you have a big buck mecca if you can tolerate the extremely low deer population due to lack of food and cover. I'm convinced Bankhead could compete with western Kentucky if it had agriculture.

It does have agriculture. Those big bucks they’re killing in the hills on Bankhead spend a great deal of time in the soybeans, cotton and corn in the valley before acorns start falling. 😉 All they gotta do is walk up the Mountain.

Sounds familiar .

You think those deer are changing their range 5-10 miles from summer to fall? Not saying you are wrong but that is fascinating if true and would explain a lot.

I know some of them are. Trailcam pics of private landowners in the valley of deer that get killed on the mountain occurs with regularity.

But there’s equally impressive deer killed on the Double Springs and Haleyville sides. Agriculture isn’t what’s pumping out those big deer.

Perception is reality. If a 125" buck is a good "Alabama buck", he's getting shot.

Depends on where you are. But yes, in 99% of Alabama he's down.

Those are not on the list of preferred deer forage given to me by the state wildlife biologist. I have always heard to fertlize honeysuckle, but that didn't rate high either, and I haven't observed a patch of honeysuckle that was heavily browsed.

So not saying I disagree with you, but I am saying I think a soybean or clover plot that is limed and fertilized will attract and hold deer. And its high in protein. Sort of like right now. Deer love corn, but I have white oak acorns falling like rain, so they aren't doing anything with corn.

I promise you that they should be……I think the biggest difference in soybeans and some of these other high protein, highly preferred species is really just the ability to grow large monocultures of only soybeans …..You’re able to produce high tonnage of just that one highly preferred specie in one spot……It has its place and I’m not discounting that. However, someone should not get so hung up on soybeans that they fail to see the importance of the natural browse for other nutrient needs……Deer “pick and choose” what they eat at different times of the year to meet the demand of different nutrient requirements…..I suspect that there are a lot of things we don’t fully understand about what all this entails……Just like Grant Woods mentioned on one his shows about research into certain species helping deer balance parasite loads……I think in order for a deer to truly maximize their health then they need to be provided with a full array of diversity.

Agreed. But, generally speaking, they are limited elsewhere before hitting the genetic max.



In the latest MeatEater podcast, they discussed a study (I'm trying to find it now) where they looked at the health and nutrition of the does while pregnant & said THAT limited potential for the newborn buck throughout his life more than could be overcome despite genes and feeding later.

Essentially, it all starts with fat & healthy does. If she's hurting or missing nutrition, her babies will never amount to much regardless of who the daddy was. From there, fat & healthy babies, if given what they need (food & time) grow to their max genetic potential.

At age 4 or 5 a buck is 125 for instance, based on averages what will he be at 6 or 7?