Just depends on the individual deer..........The one I shot was probably 130 inch as a three year old and 154 as a four......I bet he would have been a giant as a 6-7 year old.......I've gotten pics of other deer though that barely looked any different from 3 to 4

Ya I understand that but I'm talking on average a 4 or 5 125 inch...if it was stud material it would be that at 3 I would think...I just don't see em adding more than 10 inches at that point

Generally speaking that’s likely true but there’s a number of variables involved in it that may change from case to case too so there aren’t any hard rules……only tendencies……Any one deer may buck the system…….

What I want to do, but cannot is to selectively bush hog. I wish the timber co would plant and harvest pines in rows. Then you could go down the rows and bush hog them on a cycle, every 3 years on a rotation. Then I could see what they feed on and cultivate it more. I did download an APP on my phone so I can identify plants which I think will help.

The only thing I see them eat consistently is ragweed, green briar, mimosa, poke weed off the top of my head. I know they eat more, but that is what I primarily see on my lease they eat. I used to think they didn't eat in the clover plots so much, until I began to mow them. They absolutely pound the clover and chicory. They wear out soybeans if I plant them. They eat sunn hemp. But none of that competes well against acorns.

A skid steer with a forestry mulcher or a really heavy duty brush cutter would absolutely change the game for me.

I have also read that about healthy doe's having better fawns, which is why I try to plant every spot I can plant and have it be in something very high in protein.

Here you go jb20

This is just averages. I have also seen 125-130” 4 year olds explode into deer you could never imagine, so you don’t know what an individual deer will do until he does it.

https://www.bowhunter.com/editorial/explaining-deer-antlers-future-growth/451460

I was looking back through some old pics thinking about this discussion on high grading and came across this one from about 10 years ago......Here he was at what I believe to be a 2 1/2 year old




.....and here he is the next year as what I believe is a 3 1/2 year old..........He disappeared at some point that year so I guess he never made it to 4 1/2..........Man could you imagine letting these deer get to 6-7 years old.........The potential is there and its there in most places where I go........High grading these deer is one of the biggest things keeping us from having more high scoring bucks in Alabama.

Yes, high grading 2-3 year old bucks is the problem.

Hang on - I'll get a thingy and help. They have to be four just to be grown so they can put nutrients toward muscle and antler mass.

Age is far and away the most important factor in antler size and body weight.

Here's a progression of the same deer each year as he aged. Not fenced, free range and had to deal with all the stuff they normally deal with except hunting - he was on a very large private farm that did not allow it.
His top body weight was 250/260 pounds between 6 and 9 years old and he sported 170 inches of antler (+/-) during that time.

1 year old. 3 inch spikes.


2 years old. 85 inch, 8 point rack more typical of a 1 year old in his area.


3 years old. The skeletal frame is almost done growing. From this point forward the nutrients that previously went to bone growth can go to muscular growth and antler development. 122 inches of antler and 180 pounds.


4 years old. Antler and muscle growth explodes - typical of this age. 11 pointer sporting 164 inches of antler and massing 240 pounds.


5 years old. Rack characteristics changed a little. 9 pointer, 165 inches of antler 250 pounds.


6 years old. Now he's fully grown. 170 inches and 260 pounds.


7 years old. 166 inch antlers and 260 pounds.


8 years old. 160 antler and 250 weight.


9 years old. Note he grew a 5x5 rack this year. 160 inches antler and 225 pounds. He lost a fight with a much younger mature buck and never recovered his status. He avoided other mature bucks for the rest of his life and began to decline in antler mass and body weight.


10 years old. 156 inches and 220 pounds

11 years old. He is officially an old man. The aging process has taken it's toll on body weight and antlers. 143 inches and 200 pounds.


12 years old. He grew a 5 point rack on the left and a 4 on the right - kind of switched sides from previous years. 105 inches and 180 pounds. He passed of old age shortly after.

Nice photos and examples Geno.

I would say that that buck clearly had good antler traits and good potential at 2 years old.
At 3 there was no doubt. In other word - a high grade buck.

That is the kind of 2 and 3 year old to not shoot.
And yes I know people will say 4 and 5 too, but my point is that most hunters would high grade kill that buck at 2 and 3.
And they would let that scabby never going to amount to anything 6 point that Jwalker posted walk.

My philosophy is kill the low grade scabs and let the good ones walk until full maturity.

It’s pretty simple actually. The right deer needs to have access to quality year round nutrition and needs to be allowed to see age 6 ideally. You’d be surprised what that can look like when it plays out. High grading is absolutely without question one of the biggest limitations facing most properties and areas. I’d challenge most places to low grade their bucks for a few years and allow the cream to rise to the crop. Just remember though, year round quality nutrition is important for bucks to accurately show their potential so that you as a hunter can identify the upper and lower 1/3 of the age classes. Also, in order to kill a 175” 6 yo, someone has to pass him as a 120-125” 3yo, then as a 140-145” 4yo and again as a 160” 5yo. Ultimately though just enjoy deer hunting and whatever makes you and those you hunt with happy.

Cool photo's and explanation there Geno. I would like to know where that deer was though. Was it in an area known for good genes and good soil ?

This has been a good thread. Genos pictures, I think came from Charles Alzheimer’s place, but I could be wrong.

On those pictures, that deer probably wasn’t under the stress a normal Alabama paper company land deer is under. It’s impressive but I would assume the 5.5 month season, being chased by dogs, and constantly having to hide from hunters may not produce results like that here. Our deer can’t just get up and eat when they are hungry. They’re under stress trying to hide for a large portion of the year, their entire life.

How many bucks in Alabama would y'all say make it to 5 just in general?

I am going with only a few with respect to the entire population and outside urban areas. There is someone hunting about every stitch of ground in this State any landowner that isn't leasing hunting rights is leaving money on the table and that is universally known. If you are fortunate to be next to a piece of property with low to zero hunting pressure be extremely thankful. Also realize that is the exception not the rule so when when we are discussing antlers, lake thereof and Billy Bob killing everything they see with a hair on it ....that's what is going on everywhere else.

Ain't cool at all.

I was in a club next to a club that was a brown and down club. We had some big bucks out there, but you never saw them until the rut. I had pics of multiples that were big ole sway back looking bucks, with a huge brisket. Racks weren't spactacular though. I had pics of one in my current club the first year that was OOOOOLLLLLDDDD! and he had a big long spike on one side, and 2 long spikes on the other. I didn't get him on camera last year unless his rack changed. He was a huge bodied deer.

I think this is the single biggest issue in Alabama, and it's like 90% of the problem (it's definitely the only one you could control). And I'm under NO illusion that we'd have a bunch of 170/180/190 inch bucks if we'd just let em get old (probably no more than we do now), but we'd have a HECK of a bunch of 130/140/150's. To me, a 130's buck is BIG, and a 150 would be a buck of a lifetime.

Native foods are substantially better than we give them credit for, and I'm unconvinced there's such a thing as over-abundance anywhere in Alabama (over-abundance is a looooong way from abundance). I always see the statistics about the highest percentage of bucks killed being X years old (is it like 1.5 yrs?). To the average guy, a 3yr old buck with a 14" spread looks GIANT in the woods, and that deer is getting shot every time even if they don't intend to do anything except cut the skull plate off and grind the meat. Crap, we've all done it. And that's very likely the deer that would be 130+ in two more years. That's all I want (I expect to see a legit 140/150+ deer fairly infrequently during a hunting career in Alabama)
I'm nearly 50 years old, I've had my young "kill as many as possible" years (so I don't begrudge those who are going through it now), but I believe we have more hunters than ever before (bullcrap about the reduced license sales hogwash), and fewer deer and land. In the 80's when I was doing it, it seemed like it was a lot more sustainable. These days I hardly ever kill a deer unless I intend to mount it, so I'm just senstive to hunting practices that hurt my chances at that sho nuff big 'un. I just wish we could brain-train Southern hunters to be less offended by "trophy hunting"