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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: Southwood7]
#3551816
12/11/21 04:21 PM
12/11/21 04:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,048
AL
therealhojo
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,048
AL
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I don’t think it’s very easy to just go out and find 20,000 continuous acres for the state to purchase.
You don’t need to purchase 20,000 continuous acres to add more public land What’s an amount that could be a regular WMA and could be hunted responsibly? The state could add acreage to the existing WMA’s. Cahaba lost around 4000 acres if not more. My understanding is that the state didn’t renew the lease. Even thought I support the SOA system, I don’t understand why the state didn’t spend the money to keep the WMA intact. Yea, I don’t know the details about Cahaba. Did US Steel put more constraints on the lease? I truly have no idea. Adding to existing WMA’s would be good if the connecting property was feasible. I do know that any property cannot be bought for a penny more than appraised value, which at times could kill the deal. I would assume leasing would fall under the same market values as well.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: Nightwatchman]
#3551824
12/11/21 04:32 PM
12/11/21 04:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 377
Axis,AL
tailgate
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 377
Axis,AL
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abolt, I'm sure I have stomped the same grounds as you up at Boykins. Probably Scotch as well. You are correct about it would only take a matter of weeks to ruin some prime property if opened to the general public without some kind of quota/management. I do support the SOA's and feel like there will be more added in the future. Hopefully it will be newly acquired land and not busting up forever wild or more WMA's.
Bite off more than you can chew and chew like hell
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: therealhojo]
#3551829
12/11/21 04:37 PM
12/11/21 04:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,504
Atoler
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,504
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I don’t think it’s very easy to just go out and find 20,000 continuous acres for the state to purchase.
You don’t need to purchase 20,000 continuous acres to add more public land What’s an amount that could be a regular WMA and could be hunted responsibly? Pretty damn small. My favorite Georgia wma was 800 acres. State regs on turkey, bow only on deer, but open every day of the season. It was the least pressured public I’ve ever hunted. And I’ve hunted public land in about 20 states. Another place I hunted in Kentucky is like 2800 acres. State regs. Very reasonable pressure. Want to know what the main differences are? All these other states have a pile of these small properties scattered around. Alabama is one of the few states that subscribes to the massive wma system. Most states have smaller wmas than Alabama and simply have more of them.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: Southwood7]
#3551832
12/11/21 04:40 PM
12/11/21 04:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,048
AL
therealhojo
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,048
AL
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I don’t know the details either Hojo. I hope the state can add some land to the WMAs as well as further the SOA system.
Me too. I think it’s a matter of finding the properties that work. I do think they are looking on a regular basis as well for both. I wish I could get drawn. Now, I don’t apply for every hunt. I have applied for multiple deer hunts on Portland and Cedar Creek and every turkey hunt in both very year— haven’t even gotten an alternative. But that’s about my luck. But it does cut down on my chances.
Last edited by therealhojo; 12/11/21 04:46 PM.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: Atoler]
#3551845
12/11/21 04:50 PM
12/11/21 04:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,048
AL
therealhojo
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,048
AL
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I don’t think it’s very easy to just go out and find 20,000 continuous acres for the state to purchase.
You don’t need to purchase 20,000 continuous acres to add more public land What’s an amount that could be a regular WMA and could be hunted responsibly? Pretty damn small. My favorite Georgia wma was 800 acres. State regs on turkey, bow only on deer, but open every day of the season. It was the least pressured public I’ve ever hunted. And I’ve hunted public land in about 20 states. Another place I hunted in Kentucky is like 2800 acres. State regs. Very reasonable pressure. Want to know what the main differences are? All these other states have a pile of these small properties scattered around. Alabama is one of the few states that subscribes to the massive wma system. Most states have smaller wmas than Alabama and simply have more of them. Interesting.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: abolt300]
#3551857
12/11/21 05:00 PM
12/11/21 05:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,504
Atoler
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 8,504
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Someone on here tell me this: how long would it take to completely ruin a couple prime properties, if the state was to acquire two 1500-2,500 acre tracts at Safford and Portland and then just put them into the general WMA pool with 7 day a week access and no shooting requirements other than state regs???
The truthful answer is that, even as prime as those two properties would be, with the pressure those two properties would receive, you wouldn’t be able to find a deer on them, much less kill one after the second week of gun season and that is the absolute truth. After a full deer season, they wouldn’t even be worth hunting the following year.
Unless it is massive tracts of land, People and access have to be controlled to some extent because when something is “free”, people are greedy by nature, and cannot control or limit themselves.
I used to regularly turkey hunt Boykin mgmt area, it was almost 18,000 acres and I cannot count the number of times I was working a bird and had multiple hunters rush in on me and the bird, even though they had to come right by my truck, and knew that someone was already in there. If access is not in some way limited by either quota draw or limited, first come first serve, limited number, daily issued permits, And closed days, the place is quickly ruined. I know what the deer hunting was like, and what was killed when it was in the WMA program and rest assured, the groups leasing that land, now that it is back in private hands, are killing bucks and seeing numbers of deer that were not ever seen or even there to be seen, when that land was open to public. It was shot to hell and back and any deer that was seen, was immediately put on the back of a truck or snuck out in a dog/tool box (does).
So you think we are better off now without Boykin or scotch? I agree there are probably better ways to manage wmas to cut down on the pressure/killing. I just don’t think we are better off letting them disappear in exchange for SOAs that we can enjoy a 4 day weekend on once every 5-10 years. Dallas county has some land open to public access. It’s a small tract and bow only. Much less pressured than Barbour, cahaba, lowndes etc. is it as good as an SOA? No. But it’s available to be used and better than a lot of low end clubs. …… Add up all the potential public land in Dallas county. Corp land, forever wild, Portland landing, and cedar creek. That’s 20k+ acres to spread our pressure. Would it be “ruined”? Maybe compared to if mossy oak had it. Could you put rules in place that allowed for reasonable public use while still maintaining some of its greatness? Absolutely! imagine if the state took on adding small tracts for public use, at the rate they are adding SOAs….. in 10 years we would all have multiple opportunities within a reasonable drive. Pressure would be spread out. Most of the Midwest is like this. Drop a pin on the map and you likely have 5-10 tracts of land within a 30 minute drive. Plus, it’s a lot easier to find 4K acres than 30k.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: Atoler]
#3551858
12/11/21 05:01 PM
12/11/21 05:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 16,939
Banana Republic
jb20
Old Mossy Horns
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Old Mossy Horns
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 16,939
Banana Republic
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I don’t think it’s very easy to just go out and find 20,000 continuous acres for the state to purchase.
You don’t need to purchase 20,000 continuous acres to add more public land What’s an amount that could be a regular WMA and could be hunted responsibly? Pretty damn small. My favorite Georgia wma was 800 acres. State regs on turkey, bow only on deer, but open every day of the season. It was the least pressured public I’ve ever hunted. And I’ve hunted public land in about 20 states. Another place I hunted in Kentucky is like 2800 acres. State regs. Very reasonable pressure. Want to know what the main differences are? All these other states have a pile of these small properties scattered around. Alabama is one of the few states that subscribes to the massive wma system. Most states have smaller wmas than Alabama and simply have more of them. I like that idea and I dont even hunt public but I might if some were closer
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Ben Franklin
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: 3bailey3]
#3551867
12/11/21 05:06 PM
12/11/21 05:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,048
AL
therealhojo
8 point
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8 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,048
AL
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Do they do SOA turkey hunts? Yes. You can apply now. Ends on the 14th— maybe. It’s soon though.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: therealhojo]
#3551869
12/11/21 05:07 PM
12/11/21 05:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 377
Axis,AL
tailgate
4 point
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4 point
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 377
Axis,AL
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Do they do SOA turkey hunts? Yes. You can apply now. Ends on the 14th— maybe. It’s soon though. If selected for a turkey hunt do you loose your preference points for deer?
Bite off more than you can chew and chew like hell
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: Nightwatchman]
#3551871
12/11/21 05:14 PM
12/11/21 05:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,825
abolt300
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,825
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Here’s why state owned/controlled and managed small tracts won’t work in Alabama. Total numbers of DCNR employees according to a quick google search:
Alabama -318
Georgia -over 2,500
florida - over 3,000
WMAs and SOAs have to be staffed, patrolled and managed and while Bama has just as many, if not more, hunters than these much more populous states, IMO, Bama does not have the monetary resources or staff needed for an expanded program. The above are total numbers of DCNR personnel. Looking at just GWs, Bama has as many or more hunters than both GA and FL and less than half the number of actual game wardens. Therein lies the problem. If you go about something in a half assed manner, you get half ass results.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: Nightwatchman]
#3551879
12/11/21 05:19 PM
12/11/21 05:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,825
abolt300
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,825
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Also, the small Dallas county public tracts mentioned above, that are on the river right around Miller’s Ferry, used to be real good and somewhat of a well kept secret 10-15 yrs ago. Word’s out and they are now getting significantly more pressure. Only reason you can still kill deer off them is that they are very small, acreage wise, and surrounded by private land which is very well managed and the private land deer pass through the small public parcels. Once the pressure gets up, they just change their travel pattern to stay on the private land and avoid the state owned parcels as much as possible. We used to hunt them quite a bit in early bow season.
Last edited by abolt300; 12/11/21 05:24 PM.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: therealhojo]
#3551883
12/11/21 05:23 PM
12/11/21 05:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,525
Central Alabama
MC21
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,525
Central Alabama
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I don’t think it’s very easy to just go out and find 20,000 continuous acres for the state to purchase.
You don’t need to purchase 20,000 continuous acres to add more public land What’s an amount that could be a regular WMA and could be hunted responsibly? I mainly hunt private land let me just get that out of the way. The 2 WMAs I have spent a little time on are Yates lake and Autauga, both of those WMAs are less than 10,000 acres. Southwood made an excellent point by stating the state could work to add land to existing WMAs. I feel the state could also do a better job of preventing existing WMAs from loosing land like what happend to Coosa WMA a few years back and Cahaba WMA this year. I also agree with Atoler about the state could by multiple small properties for public use. The corp of engineers has multiple properties near where i live that are open to the public. the largest tract is 500 acres and the smallest is 44 acres. Its bow hunting only on all the corps land near me. They see a lot of pressure but I know people still kill deer on most of the properties every year. If the state had multiple small properties, They could make a rule that any property less than 2500 acres be bow only, bucks must be 3 points or better on one side and does can only be harvested on certain weekends. I feel like those 3 rules alone would help keep the properties from being overwhelmed. Also I know absolutely nothing about land or deer management I'll admit that. Im just telling you what i think.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: abolt300]
#3551887
12/11/21 05:26 PM
12/11/21 05:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,525
Central Alabama
MC21
10 point
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10 point
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,525
Central Alabama
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Here’s why state owned/controlled and managed small tracts won’t work in Alabama. Total numbers of DCNR employees according to a quick google search:
Alabama -318
Georgia -over 2,500
florida - over 3,000
WMAs and SOAs have to be staffed, patrolled and managed and while Bama has just as many, if not more, hunters than these much more populous states, IMO, Bama does not have the monetary resources or staff needed for an expanded program. The above are total numbers of DCNR personnel. Looking at just GWs, Bama has as many or more hunters than both GA and FL and less than half the number of actual game wardens. Therein lies the problem. If you go about something in a half assed manner, you get half ass results. This is a good point. As was said before though, the DCNR should be receiving a lot more money due to the bait permit and due to more people buying WMA license.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: Nightwatchman]
#3551896
12/11/21 05:34 PM
12/11/21 05:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,825
abolt300
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,825
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Don’t get me wrong, while I have hunted some public stuff over the years, and a good bit when I was younger, I’m at a point now where I hunt intensively managed, private land 99.95% of the time. But....I am all for adding additional land to existing WMAs and increasing public hunting opportunities. I’m all for everyone getting to hunt how they want to.
Last edited by abolt300; 12/11/21 05:38 PM.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: Nightwatchman]
#3552732
12/12/21 06:01 PM
12/12/21 06:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,174
Shelby Co, AL
CatHeadBiscuit
14 point
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14 point
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 7,174
Shelby Co, AL
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SOA’s = good
Shorter seasons = bad
More rules = bad
More costs for sportsmen to use “public” land = bad
What should happen is people using WMA’s for hiking, biking, yaking, fishing, bird watching, swimming etc should buy a WMA pass as well. It always seems to be the sportsmen that pay the price for using the WMA’s. At least one WMA public resource is by and large not “Public Owned “ land. A majority if not all of Cahaba is owned by individuals and corporations that either donate the use or lease its use to the DCNR or State. So when we say public land it’s possible to lose its use through misuse.
Last edited by CatHeadBiscuit; 12/12/21 06:02 PM.
“It’s enough to make a man feel sour. Burning minutes every day by the hour. Just to end up gone like everything else.”
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: Nightwatchman]
#3553371
12/13/21 05:04 PM
12/13/21 05:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
Anniston, AL
ikillbux
ishootatbux
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ishootatbux
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
Anniston, AL
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The dichotomy of public land hunting will always be: The only way to IMPROVE the experience is by rules of limitation. A sure way to WORSEN the experience (for some hunters) is by rules of limitation. For example, suppose we made all WMAs "bow only". That would be a rule that limits the number of hunters, and increases the number and size of deer. (By the way, this is, in my opinion, the single greatest reason why midwestern <public and private> land is so much better. Everywhere that is bow only, is simply better hunting. Want a compromise? Make it 50/50.... half is bow only, the other zone would be for gun hunts. And be honest, everyone would say "Man if they'd let us gun hunt that bow only zone, just think what we could kill!" There's your proof. Hunters have this subconscious mentality about public land that it shouldn't be / can't be as good as private land, therefore we lower the standards and and abuse it. <<<<< THAT is what's wrong with our WMAs. The lowest common denominator of hunters are the primary benefactors. And all I mean by "lowest common denominator" is the least discriminating (it's not meant to be an insult) Instead of asking hunters to raise their ideals, we lower the rules and expectations, it's basically just throw away land. I've always thought we have it backwards... if you're going to have a shared public resource, you ought to manage it for the highest possible ideals. And if you want to hunt somewhere with the ultimate freedom to indiscriminately graveyard everything that moves, you should have to go lease your own private land to have THAT kind of free for all. Seriously, one of the "freedoms" of private property is "By God, I can do anything and everything I want to here!' But you can't / don't do that anywhere that's public.
Last edited by ikillbux; 12/13/21 05:07 PM.
We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: ikillbux]
#3553441
12/13/21 07:12 PM
12/13/21 07:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,735
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
Southwood7
Booner
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Booner
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 10,735
Past Ol’ man Finley’s plac...
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For example, suppose we made all WMAs "bow only". That would be a rule that limits the number of hunters, and increases the number and size of deer. (By the way, this is, in my opinion, the single greatest reason why midwestern <public and private> land is so much better. Everywhere that is bow only, is simply better hunting. The Cahaba Refuge is over 3000 acres. It’s bow only and it doesn’t produce better quality bucks than the rest of the WMA.
The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Job 33:4
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Re: Special Opportunity Areas- Who supports them?
[Re: Southwood7]
#3553491
12/13/21 08:36 PM
12/13/21 08:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
Anniston, AL
ikillbux
ishootatbux
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ishootatbux
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,095
Anniston, AL
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For example, suppose we made all WMAs "bow only". That would be a rule that limits the number of hunters, and increases the number and size of deer. (By the way, this is, in my opinion, the single greatest reason why midwestern <public and private> land is so much better. Everywhere that is bow only, is simply better hunting. The Cahaba Refuge is over 3000 acres. It’s bow only and it doesn’t produce better quality bucks than the rest of the WMA. If we're seriously going to debate that a bow only place isn't better than a full nilly willy gun area, I'm just gonna step on out of this thread.
We were on the edge of Eternia, when the power of Greyskull began to take hold.
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