</a JR Holmes Oil Company </a Shark Guard Southeast Woods and Whitetail Mayer Insurance Services LLC
Aldeer Classifieds
Glock 40 Gen 4 MOS 10MM with Holosun
by Hunt-Fish-231. 01/14/25 05:45 PM
TenPoint Crossbow for sale
by Uokman2014. 01/14/25 11:22 AM
English cocker spaniel puppies
by phasson. 01/14/25 09:17 AM
2004 Tacoma f/s
by Okalona. 01/14/25 08:08 AM
WTB full doors Polaris Ranger 500 Midsize Crew
by robinhedd. 01/13/25 09:24 PM
Serious Deer Talk
Blood Trails and the 6.5 cm. (Bullet Advice)
by Frankie. 01/14/25 11:58 PM
Blackbirds
by jwalker77. 01/14/25 10:03 PM
Rifle Scope Recommendations
by 2Dogs. 01/14/25 09:22 PM
Where is he hit??
by Turkey_neck. 01/14/25 09:14 PM
Questions on elevated stand stairs
by Remington270. 01/14/25 08:13 PM
January
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Land, Leases, Hunting Clubs
Way too early looking in/near Baldwin County
by SouthBamaSlayer. 01/11/25 05:56 PM
Pasture land
by BBD23. 01/07/25 12:42 PM
Lee, Russell, Macon, Chambers, Tallapoosa, Montgom
by GHTiger10. 01/05/25 04:15 PM
ISO Lease for ‘25-‘26
by SuperSpike. 01/03/25 01:51 PM
ISO Lease or Club NE Mississippi
by Hunt305. 01/01/25 11:25 AM
Who's Online Now
4 registered members (Corn Dog, sw1002, bhammedic84, David Ellis), 2,290 guests, and 0 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 13 1 2 3 4 12 13
Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628392
03/09/22 04:59 PM
03/09/22 04:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,315
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,315
Awbarn, AL
The part about this that I think is hard to see here is that yes, the properties that are using fire are supporting the best turkey populations in these counties….They are also the very same ones that have the ability to cause big swings or fluctuations in these populations when “after deer season burning” gets delayed by bad weather conditions in certain years……Combine that with the fact that this burn season doesn’t start until Feb 11th now and the fact that turkey breeding season is getting earlier due to warming trends and I think you get a situation where we’re it’s become more of an issue in recent years


We dont rent pigs
Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628397
03/09/22 05:02 PM
03/09/22 05:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
Originally Posted by CNC
The turkey hunting data from the Game Check numbers do not agree…..The production output for the counties we are talking about are less than many of the other ones around the state and they also show the heaviest fluctuations in output.

[Linked Image]


You are relying on a map that notes Morgan county killed nearly 15,000 birds and mobile county killed over 11,000?? Hell according to this map, Macon, Russel, Lee and Montgomery county killed more than Wilcox Clarke and Monroe, the are of highest turkey density in the state! These numbers don't jive with Game check either. According to GC, Montgomery county killed 159 gobblers last year.


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628400
03/09/22 05:05 PM
03/09/22 05:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
Originally Posted by CNC
Lightning-season burns destroy some nests and obviously have a direct effect on nesting activity, but, unlike the other threats that nesting birds face, lightning-season fires provide clear benefits thathave the potential to offset losses in a big way. For example, if lightning-season burns provide a 5% increase in the survival of adults and juveniles as a result of habitat improvements, these increases could offset a 15% reduction in nest productivity attributable to burning.


Taking a 15% reduction in nesting and breaking it down. 50% nest mortality makes 7.5% hatched chicks. 60% chick mortality makes 6% grown poults. Take a few off before they become adults and you are equivalent with the 5% adult increase in adult survival to offset nest loss.


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628402
03/09/22 05:06 PM
03/09/22 05:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,375
sj22 Offline
14 point
sj22  Offline
14 point
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,375
Now he’s infected the turkey forum! Go away



Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628405
03/09/22 05:09 PM
03/09/22 05:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
Originally Posted by CNC

The map shows the density in a manner that is 1 bird killed for every "X" amount of acres.....For example in Jackson Co there was one bird killed for every 961 acres......In Russell there was 1 bird killed per every 3308. Those are actually some of the lower densities when looking at the county averages. If you look you see that the lowest population outputs are the areas where the most burning occurs.


Wow, just wow. Sooooo, according to your map, Clarke, Wilcox, Monroe, Dallas and Lowndes all suck. OK, burning is the demise of turkey populations. I think I will stop doing it now.

Last edited by gobbler; 03/09/22 05:11 PM.

I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Spring Burning [Re: sj22] #3628406
03/09/22 05:09 PM
03/09/22 05:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,616
Alabama
D
dirkdaddy Offline
10 point
dirkdaddy  Offline
10 point
D
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,616
Alabama
Originally Posted by sj22
Now he’s infected the turkey forum! Go away

X2

Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628412
03/09/22 05:19 PM
03/09/22 05:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,315
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,315
Awbarn, AL
Its no wonder nothing is getting solved is this is the way folks go about it.


We dont rent pigs
Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628433
03/09/22 05:50 PM
03/09/22 05:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 728
Here
C
Chiller Offline
4 point
Chiller  Offline
4 point
C
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 728
Here
Use the KISS method. If I had to burn it would be 2-3 weeks before season opened or up to before the majority of hens start nesting. That will be different across the state. For me, Based off years of me being in the woods in a specific area its mid to late April. So I would not burn after mid April. No need to over analyze with data. Recon on what the turkeys are actually doing in your area. Let common sense and visual evidence be your guide.

Re: Spring Burning [Re: Chiller] #3628462
03/09/22 06:20 PM
03/09/22 06:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,315
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,315
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted by Chiller
Use the KISS method. If I had to burn it would be 2-3 weeks before season opened or up to before the majority of hens start nesting. That will be different across the state. For me, Based off years of me being in the woods in a specific area its mid to late April. So I would not burn after mid April. No need to over analyze with data. Recon on what the turkeys are actually doing in your area. Let common sense and visual evidence be your guide.


Do hens make a pattern change between Jan and April moving to nesting areas?? If so, how far in advance of nesting do they make that change?


We dont rent pigs
Re: Spring Burning [Re: gobbler] #3628479
03/09/22 06:44 PM
03/09/22 06:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,958
LASW
turkey247 Offline
12 point
turkey247  Offline
12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,958
LASW
Originally Posted by gobbler
Originally Posted by CNC

The map shows the density in a manner that is 1 bird killed for every "X" amount of acres.....For example in Jackson Co there was one bird killed for every 961 acres......In Russell there was 1 bird killed per every 3308. Those are actually some of the lower densities when looking at the county averages. If you look you see that the lowest population outputs are the areas where the most burning occurs.


Wow, just wow. Sooooo, according to your map, Clarke, Wilcox, Monroe, Dallas and Lowndes all suck. OK, burning is the demise of turkey populations. I think I will stop doing it now.


Gobbler - the lower the number - the higher the success rate.

Re: Spring Burning [Re: BCLC] #3628482
03/09/22 06:45 PM
03/09/22 06:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,958
LASW
turkey247 Offline
12 point
turkey247  Offline
12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,958
LASW
Originally Posted by BCLC
Burn baby burn til the 1st egg hits the nest. 🔥

Fire ants do more damage to the turkey population than controlled burns. IMO


That will start very soon around here. Single hens wondering around already.

Re: Spring Burning [Re: turkey247] #3628492
03/09/22 06:57 PM
03/09/22 06:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
Originally Posted by turkey247
Originally Posted by gobbler
Originally Posted by CNC

The map shows the density in a manner that is 1 bird killed for every "X" amount of acres.....For example in Jackson Co there was one bird killed for every 961 acres......In Russell there was 1 bird killed per every 3308. Those are actually some of the lower densities when looking at the county averages. If you look you see that the lowest population outputs are the areas where the most burning occurs.


Wow, just wow. Sooooo, according to your map, Clarke, Wilcox, Monroe, Dallas and Lowndes all suck. OK, burning is the demise of turkey populations. I think I will stop doing it now.


Gobbler - the lower the number - the higher the success rate.


I understand your convoluted map now hence my comment. You are showing that Clarke, Wilcox, Monroe, Dallas and Lowndes all suck. I would suspect that NOT to be the case. Those are some of the highest harvest counties in the state. The map means nothing.


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Spring Burning [Re: gobbler] #3628500
03/09/22 07:02 PM
03/09/22 07:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,958
LASW
turkey247 Offline
12 point
turkey247  Offline
12 point
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,958
LASW
Originally Posted by gobbler


I understand your convoluted map now hence my comment. You are showing that Clarke, Wilcox, Monroe, Dallas and Lowndes all suck. I would suspect that NOT to be the case. Those are some of the highest harvest counties in the state. The map means nothing.


Huh? I didn’t post it. Just adding some clarity that lower number means better hunting. I also don’t believe it or put any stock in it - especially if it’s based off GC in any way.

Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628515
03/09/22 07:26 PM
03/09/22 07:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
As a burner, Forester and Wildlife Biologist, here's my opinion on burning and timing. As a rule, burning the woods is beneficial for turkeys and burning some is better than burning nothing.
Burning keeps the understory in good shape for turkeys to nest, raise broods and move about safely. Areas that are regularly burned typically have good broomstraw understories that are good nesting cover in the years they are not burned, especially 2 or 3 years after the last fire. Areas burned in the spring are good insect production areas, therefore good brood habitat the summer they are burned. The open nature of a burned woodland is also attractive to turkeys because they can see well through the woods and spot predators.
When we have a block, say, of 3 year rough broomstraw with some scattered shrubby cover in a pine stand that the landowner wants burned, we are highly aware that it is good nesting cover and we typically wont burn it between mid April and mid May (peak incubation period). If I burned it in early April, I might burn up a nest that was being laid into but the hen is highly likely to renest. If it is burned in early may after a few weeks of incubation, it is a much more significant loss. She will still probably renest but it will be late and she has wasted valuable and risky incubation time. In areas that potentially hold nests and we are burning in Early April, research has indicated (and our experience show it to be true) that most nests are near an edge, often in the transition with a hardwood drain where the fire will often not burn the nest or go around the thicket. Researchers have found that some nests still hatched after a cool fire went over them but most nests in a burn block were never burned. We have flushed hens from nests occasionally from a nest and in that case we protect it so that fire does not get to it. We have had great success with this and most have hatched. If we hold off because a site is in peak nesting season and great nesting cover, we will burn in later May or June and still get good burn results. The only concern here is flightless poults and we hope that they are 1) not in this thick cover and 2) the fire is moving slow enough to allow the hen to lead the poults to the nearest drain. We don't encounter flightless poults often but I did come up on my partner once running around in the grass bent over and I asked him what he was doing. He said he was catching poults and moving them to the side we weren't burning! The hen was right there.
Size matters but not usually on most private lands. Burn blocks less than 200 acres or so are best and closer to 100 is probably best. Occasionally large landowners and, certainly, public lands will burn large blocks in the hundreds or thousands of acres and there is no doubt this is detrimental to turkeys and other wildlife. Size of burn blocks should be based on animal size and home range. Quail blocks should be 10, 20 acres or so since their home ranges are 100-300 acres. Turkey blocks should be less than 200 acres since their home ranges are 1,000-2,000 acres. Research has also shown that they are reluctant to travel more than 250 yds from the edge into a large burn and use decreases at about 100 yds. With that rule, a 500 acre burn can still be useful if it is less than about 3-400 yds wide but much longer.

Last edited by gobbler; 03/09/22 07:42 PM.

I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628516
03/09/22 07:26 PM
03/09/22 07:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,315
Awbarn, AL
CNC Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
CNC  Offline OP
Dances With Weeds
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 24,315
Awbarn, AL
Originally Posted by CNC
Originally Posted by Chiller
Use the KISS method. If I had to burn it would be 2-3 weeks before season opened or up to before the majority of hens start nesting. That will be different across the state. For me, Based off years of me being in the woods in a specific area its mid to late April. So I would not burn after mid April. No need to over analyze with data. Recon on what the turkeys are actually doing in your area. Let common sense and visual evidence be your guide.


Do hens make a pattern change between Jan and April moving to nesting areas?? If so, how far in advance of nesting do they make that change?


What I’m getting at here is that there is more to it than just when they start nesting…..there is also the matter of how many eggs they produce in each nest…..My aunt used to stay on our arse about doing stuff like riding dirtbikes and such around the chicken houses because spooking the birds would throw off egg production on the next pull and cost them money. Spooking turkey right ahead of nesting is likely to effect egg production…..Again, there is a reason they hold all of the variables as stable as possible in a chicken house for max egg production. Major disruptors cause decreases. Has nobody else here ever worked in a commercial chicken house picking up eggs?





Last edited by CNC; 03/09/22 07:28 PM.

We dont rent pigs
Re: Spring Burning [Re: turkey247] #3628518
03/09/22 07:28 PM
03/09/22 07:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
Originally Posted by turkey247

Huh? I didn’t post it. Just adding some clarity that lower number means better hunting. I also don’t believe it or put any stock in it - especially if it’s based off GC in any way.


Sorry, Misread the post - thought I was replying to CNC beers


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628522
03/09/22 07:32 PM
03/09/22 07:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 728
Here
C
Chiller Offline
4 point
Chiller  Offline
4 point
C
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 728
Here
Originally Posted by CNC
Originally Posted by Chiller
Use the KISS method. If I had to burn it would be 2-3 weeks before season opened or up to before the majority of hens start nesting. That will be different across the state. For me, Based off years of me being in the woods in a specific area its mid to late April. So I would not burn after mid April. No need to over analyze with data. Recon on what the turkeys are actually doing in your area. Let common sense and visual evidence be your guide.


Do hens make a pattern change between Jan and April moving to nesting areas?? If so, how far in advance of nesting do they make that change?


I can only speak for the turkeys that I observe on a relatively small area. A flock of hens shows up every year at the end of January first of February. I speculate it's the same flock every year with additional offspring. They stay grouped together traveling around and starting in mid April they seperate during the day. However, off the roost they flock up together. Then they go tend their nest and flock back up before Roost time. Late April they completely seperate and do not flock back up because they are staying very close to their nest. I have hunted the same 2 areas for multiple seasons. The same time frame applies for both areas and they are at opposite ends of the state.

Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628523
03/09/22 07:34 PM
03/09/22 07:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,212
Birmingham,AL
L
low wall Offline
8 point
low wall  Offline
8 point
L
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,212
Birmingham,AL
All the quail plantations you talk about burning. I know that most of them burn over a 3 year cycle, small checkerboard sections of only a few hundred acres each. Far from creating a huge desert, they are carefully arranged to have a 0, 1, and 2-year old type of ground cover (feeding, loafing, etc), within a few hundred yards of each other. Primarily for nurturing quail, but expect it's just as beneficial to a huge amount of work, but its all about game management.


Used to be a lifeguard, until that blue kid got me fired.
Re: Spring Burning [Re: gobbler] #3628526
03/09/22 07:37 PM
03/09/22 07:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,311
colbert county
cartervj Offline
Freak of Nature
cartervj  Offline
Freak of Nature
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 21,311
colbert county
Originally Posted by gobbler
As a burner, Forester and Wildlife Biologist, here's my opinion on burning and timing. As a rule, burning the woods is beneficial for turkeys and burning some is better than burning nothing.
Burning keeps the understory in good shape for turkeys to nest, raise broods and move about safely. Areas that are regularly burned typically have good broomstraw understories that are good nesting cover in the years they are not burned, especially 2 or 3 years after the last fire. Areas burned in the spring are good insect production areas, therefore good brood habitat the summer they are burned. The open nature of a burned woodland is also attractive to turkeys because they can see well through the woods and spot predators.
When we have a block, say, of 3 year rough broomstraw with some scattered shrubby cover in a pine stand that the landowner wants burned, we are highly aware that it is good nesting cover and we typically wont burn it between the end of April and the end of May (peak incubation period). If I burned it in early April, I might burn up a nest that was being laid into but the hen is highly likely to renest. If it is burned in mid may after a few weeks of incubation, it is a much more significant loss. She will still probably renest but it will be late and she has wasted valuable and risky incubation time. In areas that potentially hold nests and we are burning in Early April, research has indicated (and our experience show it to be true) that most nests are near an edge, often in the transition with a hardwood drain where the fire will often not burn the nest or go around the thicket. Researchers have found that some nests still hatched after a cool fire went over them but most nests in a burn block were never burned. We have flushed hens from nests occasionally from a nest and in that case we protect it so that fire does not get to it. We have had great success with this and most have hatched. If we hold off because a site is in peak nesting season and great nesting cover, we will burn in later May or June and still get good burn results. The only concern here is flightless poults and we hope that they are 1) not in this thick cover and 2) the fire is moving slow enough to allow the hen to lead the poults to the nearest drain. We don't encounter flightless poults often but I did come up on my partner once running around in the grass bent over and I asked him what he was doing. He said he was catching poults and moving them to the side we weren't burning! The hen was right there.
Size matters but not usually on most private lands. Burn blocks less than 200 acres or so are best and closer to 100 is probably best. Occasionally large landowners and, certainly, public lands will burn large blocks in the hundreds or thousands of acres and there is no doubt this is detrimental to turkeys and other wildlife. Size of burn blocks should be based on animal size and home range. Quail blocks should be 10, 20 acres or so since their home ranges are 100-300 acres. Turkey blocks should be less than 200 acres since their home ranges are 1,000-2,000 acres. Research has also shown that they are reluctant to travel more than 250 yds from the edge into a large burn and use decreases at about 100 yds. With that rule, a 500 acre burn can still be useful if it is less than about 3-400 yds wide but much longer.



thumbup


“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.” ― Ronald Reagan
Re: Spring Burning [Re: CNC] #3628531
03/09/22 07:45 PM
03/09/22 07:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
gobbler Offline
12 point
gobbler  Offline
12 point
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,252
South Alabama
Originally Posted by CNC
Might want to slow down and pay a little more attention to detail.........


Might want to ..... ............. ...........


I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine
Page 2 of 13 1 2 3 4 12 13

Moderated by  Brent, Dixiepatriot, riverrat, Shaw, YEKRUT 

Aldeer.com Copyright 2001-2024 Aldeer LLP.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.145s Queries: 16 (0.018s) Memory: 3.3054 MB (Peak: 3.5957 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2025-01-15 08:44:39 UTC
</a