So looking at the numbers over the last few years it shows some of the counties like Macon, Bullock, and Russell as having major swings in kill numbers. Now before you answer with “It’s just normal for turkey populations to fluctuate.”…..I agree with that and it’s not what I’m getting at here…..These counties are having swings of 30-35% while normal fluctuation seems to be about 10%.......

My question is……Why are these counties seeing such higher fluctuation rates??......They are right on track to do the same this year…..My guess is that its following a boom/bust cycle of one of the predators……I’m thinking maybe hawks or maybe its rats that are boom/busting and starting the domino effect.....not sure....I believe though that the good habitat the burning creates may be creating and increased predator issue of some kind that’s having a bigger impact on turkeys than in other areas……

Eagles

To many hawks owls coyotes possums coons you name it. They need a thinning.

You're probably joking but there's actually quite a few of them around here......likely because of the food sources I would imagine.

The situation with turkeys isn’t all too different from the situation with soil……You have something like 8-12 main variables influencing the outcome and “turning the adjustment knob” on any one variable or multiple variables from site to site has ripple effects that can be difficult to wrap your head around when the visual cues are multiple links down the chain from the cause. Each of these "variable knobs" are turned to different settings from one county to the next and what may be the main variable of influence in one spot may be different from the next one.

I imagine the 140,000 acres of mouse filled grass prairie in the heart of the three counties I mentioned previously is a big, big draw for avian predators……I don’t know how many hawks all the rest of you see but its common to hear 2 or 3 screaming out here anytime you walk out the door. Part of the issue is likely the fact that without any grazing herds present, we are producing an overabundance of tall thick grass compared to what we should be producing in this type of ecosystem ……which probably in turn produces an overabundance of mice and other small prey.

Also to add to that…….the timing of our burning is off too and likely compounding the issue…..We are burning and scattering hoards of mice and other small game just prior to turkey nesting…..which in turn is like baiting in the avian predators ahead of time.

A few years ago I was doing some trapping on a property in my neck of the woods that’s got an eagle’s nest built on its lake…..It was in the top of a really big pine tree. While I was there, I went around to it one day just to take a closer look. The dang thing was as big as the bed of a pickup truck. What was even kinda creepy looking about it was that there were all kinds of bones scattered around the base of the tree too with several of them being parts from deer carcasses. I figure the eagles probably scavenged them from road kill. I’ve seen them fly up out of the ditch on several occasions around Union Springs. I’m not sure how many of them there are total around here but I would imagine that they could probably target pretty large turkey poults if not full grown birds if they really wanted to.

Now CNC, you cant have it both ways, if burning in the spring kills all turkey nests, which leads to no young turkey poults, one could also assume that it would also kill a lot of the young rabbits and other mammals, so "likely because of the food sources"??????

If talking to yourself at home gets boring, just talk to yourself on the internet I guess

look up alternative prey sources in regards to predation - would be exactly opposite what you are saying

Haha. Damn

What do you think of this video

https://youtu.be/RzIn0dSgeiU

I think that may be too general of a viewpoint on it. The timing of burning and the timing of creating a big increase in available food plays a big role I believe. Burning during Feb and March displaces a LOT mice and other small prey species…..This increases the amount of available food and likely draws in a peak of avian predators……This doesn’t save any turkey poults though because there arent any on the land yet……What it does is set the stage for drawing in a high amount predators ahead of nesting by going in and stirring up and displacing a ton of small prey…..By the time the poults are actually hatching in May/June, that big spike in the amount of available small prey has declined….This is exactly why I’ve been saying that you might be better off to burn in late May and June if turkeys are your main goal…..Then you’re displacing all of these mice and other small game during the turkey poults critical two week period after they hatch. The would work out just right with the alternative food source studies you're referring to I believe.

You not remember Alabama freshwater and fisheries division posting the picture of a longbeard getting ate by a eagle? That's where alot of our money is going. Funding stupid crap like that.

Not joking, never understood why people think its great to see the top predator in the sky making a huge comeback in numbers and to top it off we got half of aldeer that wont kill snakes that eat the eggs.

Something else to consider........If mice are going through boom and bust cycles from year to year then wouldnt the avian predator populations be more likely to key in on alternative food sources during years of mice bust??? Is this what's causing the big swings in annual hunter kill numbers for gobblers?

Ben……..I don’t mess with non poisonous snakes either…..I think this is a situation where we need to pick and choose our battles carefully when tinkering with getting rid of a major predator. We have the mice issue that needs to be moderated by something…..I look at snakes as the smallest hole in the bucket and one probably just better left alone…..I think if we are gonna manipulate the balance and dynamics of turkey predators then trapping coons is probably the hill I’d make my stand on……also, giving some real thought to that May/June burning and stirring up of the small prey right after turkey poults hatch. Think of it like a military diversion tactic.

You know really if it’s a boom/bust cycle of rats then we are talking about impacting more predators than just hawks…..Rats are probably the biggest food source supporting many of the main predator populations around here…..On mice bust years they will ALL likely look to utilize alternative food sources more. I’m not saying it’s a certainty but this idea sure looks like a good fit.

But do we?

You’re gonna need funding and a major university or the state to study your theory. I guess they could catch field mice and put little gps collars on them to study their movements after a burn. I bet a bunch of the little guys don’t make it out of their burrows and die.

I would bet that most of the little mice and small prey run into a hole in the ground somewhere as the fire approaches and they wait it out there…..Then after it passes and the dust has settled, they emerge…..exposed…..with no cover in sight…..and it becomes like a big free for all to the predators as they all scurry to find new cover……But even when they do make it to new cover they will likely run into an already filled up carrying capacity for the same critters in the remaining cover areas and further displacement and movement occurs. It’s likely creating a pretty big disruption to the small prey and really increasing the amount of easy targets for predators.

As far as the question of “Do we really need predators to moderate mice??”…..In our current situation with the way our habitat and ecosystems function, I don’t really see any way around it…..I think we have the potential to do things to exacerbate the issue and cause bigger booms and bigger busts by the management approaches we take…..and on the flip side we likely have the ability to help moderate them as well. Engaging in an all out war on all turkey predators would only serve to create bigger booms and busts I believe. There are likely better ways of going about it.

You shoot them.