I know trapping isn’t the ultimate fix to turkey numbers but man if you listen to them it’s almost a waste of time. It’s one of the few things I’m able to do to help em on my places and I understand you’ll never catch em all and others will move in but I’m pretty sure everything I’ve caught will never eat another egg or turkey so I’ll just keep at it and help as much as I can.

I think it helps way more than people think

Hope i can hit them hard one more time before mid to end of march

How could you say with a straight face, that it’s a waste of time?

the mossyoak podcast had a woman on last week that was a coyote “specialist “. she pretty much said the same thing, the spread from neighboring ranges will never stop. She wasn’t saying not to trap but if your time is limited and more turkeys is what you’re after, spend your time on habitat improvements and making the property more diverse and harder for the coyotes to hunt it.

For some reason you will never find a researcher that’s openly promoting trapping. Most will respond with “removing a few will do nothing”. Ok….. doing nothing also produces nothing. It’s as if they are looking for some easy button that has been overlooked and ignore the sum of many little things. Of course if an answer is found, $$$ for more research decrease. Hate to think that way but many are driven for fame unfortunately. The answer is never found but another question is raised and that question hopefully gets funded and so on and so on….. Man is a predator and limits are placed on him to protect the species. But all other predators have 365/24-7 access. Yes man is more efficient, but less efficiency given way more time is more dangerous.

Same way Chamberlain can say we need to push season back because of his dominant gobbler theory. All a crock of chit.

Precisely. But it has paid off for him. And it’s still referred to as “theory”.

They say it because they know if they cast a favorable light on trapping, they will be defrocked by their liberal colleagues, and prestige in their field is one of the things PHDs crave the most. We have gone too far to the left as a society to acknowledge the principle of killing a worthless animal to benefit one that has worth. I’m just a simple offshore hand, but I can do simple math. If one raccoon can eat one turkey nest per day, then killing that raccoon saves all those nests he would have raided.

My read was not that it is a waste of time, but that it is not the most important thing. They're saying that the most important thing is improving nesting and brooding habitat and that trapping will get you another 5-10% on top of what those habitat improvements gain. I'm sure that is true if you either own the land or if you have the landowners permission to do whatever you want. But so many of us lease land, primarily from timber companies, and have zero control on timber harvest or burning schedules. But we can trap. I'm sure it doesn't give as big an increase as burning, but we have to do what we can to get what increases we can.

Great points and spot on IMO. Not that my opinion means one cent. To me it’s common sense. I think habitat is the most often overlooked. Let’s just think about what good habitat offers ground nesting birds.

Foraging. Lots of good food sources in good habitat. Grasses, water from dew, insects, lizards, etc. Just about every food item a turkey needs to prosper.

Cover. Gives great nesting sites, increased protection from predators. Not just ground predators but avian as well. Cover from weather. I believe good grassy areas allows some cover and relief for poults when we have an abnormally wet spring and summer.

Trapping. Goes without saying. If you have all or some of the above, how can trapping do anything but increase the survival rate of poults to adulthood?

One area I haven’t came up with an opinion on is fire ants. I think fire ants played a contributing part in the decimation of our quail population. I can only think they can wreak havoc on a turkey nest as well. I don’t know how you deal with a bad fire ant problem if you have one.

I may be off on some of my assumptions but it just seems like common sense to me. Dominant gobbler theory and all this other stuff just seems like snake oil to me. A poults has to make it out of the nest and few weeks until it can fly. Seems like good cover and food can get it there.

In one of their podcasts, they were listing the top predators on eggs and poults. There were a couple on the lists that surprised me. One was crows. I didn't realize they were a significant nest raider. The other was wild dogs. I didn't think of them as poult killers. I'm gonna start shooting crows, too.

Ill say it one more time…you will not..do better than quality habitat improvement..period..theres lots of things you can do in addition to habitat improvement..like trapping..there isnt one magic bullet..but habitat. I know the dynamic for most people is limited to what they can afford or what the landowner will allow. Its so specific..one data set cant be applied to another either… they admit some stuff is skewed..some predators are protected anyway…trapping will 100% be effective if its done for long enough and on a broad enough scale..but who has the time or can afford it..its a mess for poor folks who lease..its really a mess for anybody who aint a wealthy large landowner. Do what you can, and try to educate your neighbors and aggervate your property owner. Doing nothing is the worst thing to do..something is always better.

I thought the Harper fellow just assumes it’s something you should be doing - # 1 on the list.

How is the habitat today that much different than back in the early 2000's when everyone thought turkey hunting was great???

Carbon Climber is absolutely correct on all points. I’ve been blessed to be on the same mid sized property for 25 years. Most of it was reclaimed pasture land with decent amount of hardwoods. Thick. Zero turkeys. 2-3 acre fields were then established. An occasional turkey would be seen. Later about 30 percent was clear cut and planted in pines. An occasional bird or two. 20 years after planting, pines were thinned and a 2 year burn rotation established. Turkeys have appeared from nowhere and stay there year around. In short, yes habitat is a large piece of the puzzle. Unfortunately it’s the piece out of reach for majority of folks. Gotta have turkeys for trapping to be protecting them. It sure will not create them.

They are pushing what gets them paid. That's how science works this day in age.

They cant convince me that taking a hand full of coons off 1000 acres didn't save a couple turkey nests. If 1 coon destroys 1 nest per year you are making a massive impact.

In personal oppinion..its far less disturbance and entirely too much mediocre to poor brood and nest habitat…combined with the increased human population and everything we bring to the table…cats,dogs, table scraps…sod…all our ilk spklls over to the point we frcture habitat so bad they cant survive in an area anymore. Not to mention the overwhelming invasive vegetation in places..wildlife management requires variety..to much of any one thing and everything falls apart…we need to diversify properties while esablishing cover and connectivity..but above all..there needs to be a source population capable of being bolstered..too little too late in some places.

An im pretty much usin my area as an example..it will never have turkeys..hadnt hadem in the last 150 years..same reason..too many people. Most areas that have some birds could have alot of birds if youd set some fires an get happy with a disk…maybe get a little more sunlight on the ground..stuff eats turkeys..no doubt..so do all the other stuff…and..go scorched earth on predators 🤷🏻

I just don’t see that big of a difference in my area than what it was when I moved here 23 years ago……For the most part it’s the same old pine plantations, cow pastures, and crop fields. If you look at the data for coon trapping though…..there has been a significant change since back in the day. I’ve said this before but I’ll point it out again…..Legalizing baiting has just about assuredly had an impact on coon populations.

It dont help..do you have turkeys at all?